Blue Jays sign Shun Yamaguchi from the NPB to a 2 year contract

[SAAviour]

I’m no scout and I only watched 2 minutes of that video of him pitching, but that looked like batting practice to me.

I’m usually optimistic this time of year but f*** me!!!!!

[Bobthe4th]

I wouldn't really say thin as f***. Trevor Bauer, Robbie Ray, James Paxton, Masahiro Tanaka, Jake Arrieta (club option), Marcus Stroman, Jose Quintana. And then the following year! (yes i know lots can change) = Noah Syndergaard, Clayton Kershaw, Corey Kluber, Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, Zack Greinke, Chris Archer, Mike Foltynewicz

 

Yeah plus there will be other pitchers who raise their stock with good seasons, we'll still have lots of payroll space, and hopefully we'll be a more attractive destination with the development of the core and our prospects.

[Olerud363]

We finally have the depth to throw out a Rays type strategy to run a projected 5 fWAR rotation into a sub 4.00 ERA 12 WAR staff. Now we find out if they have the smarts to maximize what we have

 

They could do some creative stuff with Manoah and Pearson and who will be 22 and 23 on opening day. Roberto Osuna was less accomplished and 2 years younger when he became the Jays closer... so could these guys provide 100-120 good innings?? I believe Pearson essentially "opened" every second start... why not do something like that with these two??

 

Would it work?? If called up after the mid april service time deadline, would 100 innings still be a waste of service time ?? Would there be issues filling up all the innings if you use 2 roster spots on 100 inning "starter/openers"??

[Deadpool]

You can see the actual grip that he uses in the video I posted before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Ky2WwnJn8 at the 7:20 mark. I guess it is a forkball but it's so similar to the splitter grip that it's very difficult to tell the difference.

 

After watching the video, I wonder how effective he'll be without his horn and percussion sections...

[wamco]

They could do some creative stuff with Manoah and Pearson and who will be 22 and 23 on opening day. Roberto Osuna was less accomplished and 2 years younger when he became the Jays closer... so could these guys provide 100-120 good innings?? I believe Pearson essentially "opened" every second start... why not do something like that with these two??

 

Would it work?? If called up after the mid april service time deadline, would 100 innings still be a waste of service time ?? Would there be issues filling up all the innings if you use 2 roster spots on 100 inning "starter/openers"??

 

I don’t see the need. Go the traditional route. Pearson will mow down aaa and be up soon imo.

Let manoah work his way up the minors this year

[Deadpool]

They could do some creative stuff with Manoah and Pearson and who will be 22 and 23 on opening day. Roberto Osuna was less accomplished and 2 years younger when he became the Jays closer... so could these guys provide 100-120 good innings?? I believe Pearson essentially "opened" every second start... why not do something like that with these two??

 

Would it work?? If called up after the mid april service time deadline, would 100 innings still be a waste of service time ?? Would there be issues filling up all the innings if you use 2 roster spots on 100 inning "starter/openers"??

 

Manoah has 17 innings as a professional, it's extremely unlikely that we'll even see him in AAA this year, much less in the MLB after mid-April...

[saskjayfan]

if you don't like it than I suggest that you become a fan of a different team. Cause honestly it's likely the direction they go. Rays have 12 or so pitchers end up between 40 and 100 innings (depending on injuries it's been as many as 15 in the past 3 years). This is what the Jays should be looking at...not just with the current group, moving forward as well. In the end you have to cover approx 1450 innings. If you have the starters to cover 900 of those (Mets, Indians, Astros and Nats were the only ones that did last year) then of course you do that. Jays don't have a Morton, but they do have the ability to match the 11 fWAR the Rays got from the other 525 innings from starters (which is why I think they should be shooting for a 12-15 WAR starting staff). Guys like Ryan Yarborough, Jalen Beeks, Drake, Chirinos, Roe, Kolarek, Kitteredge are not any more talented than the pitchers we have. We have to learn how to use what we have properly. Spend on improving the offense.

 

The Rays have no choice, but to be frugal. They have home grown guys in Chirinos, Snell and Yarbrough. They lucked out or astutely traded for a young Tyler Glasnow. With their limited budget they pooled all their money into one guy in Morton. Morton at 2 years and a 16 AAV last year would garner 3 and 60 the way this year's market has gone.

 

How is this anything like the Jays rotation. Where is our Morton or our Snell? We didn't sign Ryu. Pearson may turn into our Snell, but he's missing the first 2 months. The other pitchers aren't young. We paid 12 mil year to an old flyball pitcher in Roark who will put up a FIP north of 5. Anderson is old and predictable. This japanese signing could turn out to be a Rays like move and there's nothing wrong with the gamble. We're not rolling with the young guys. Shoemaker is 33, Anderson is 32, Roark is 33, even this japanese dude is 33. None of those guys are Charlie Morton. Most of the guys you reference are younger guys still improving. Our guys are already in decline mode and we don't have Snell or Morton at the top. The comparison is laughable.

 

We're going to roll along this year and win 76 games because our young position players will continue to grow and our pitching will be woefully short. Even if we're going with the idea that we don't need any front line starters, we just need a bunch of average starters to win 80+ games, don't we need a bullpen. Why haven't we signed Betances yet if we're rolling in this direction. Giles is fantastic, but he's one guy.

 

Our attendance and tv numbers are going to suck this year and we will see if Shapiro and Atkins are here in 2021.

[polar bear]

Jesus, you need to take a breath.

 

Exactly.

[Bobthe4th]

We're going to roll along this year and win 76 games because our young position players will continue to grow and our pitching will be woefully short. Even if we're going with the idea that we don't need any front line starters, we just need a bunch of average starters to win 80+ games, don't we need a bullpen. Why haven't we signed Betances yet if we're rolling in this direction. Giles is fantastic, but he's one guy.

 

Our attendance and tv numbers are going to suck this year and we will see if Shapiro and Atkins are here in 2021.

 

We (better) be losing Giles from the bullpen soon, but the usual vet signings and random reliever pitching well for a year, added to the 2 or 3 relievers we'll likely get from the starters who don't remain starters, will fill out the bullpen nicely.

 

Our outfield, and our cover infield (Urena, Drury and Valera = worst in the league) are bigger factors on limiting our win total IMO.

[The Iceman]

We (better) be losing Giles from the bullpen soon, but the usual vet signings and random reliever pitching well for a year, added to the 2 or 3 relievers we'll likely get from the starters who don't remain starters, will fill out the bullpen nicely.

 

Our outfield, and our cover infield (Urena, Drury and Valera = worst in the league) are bigger factors on limiting our win total IMO.

 

Problem being Randal G is signed and locked in and all the mediocrity he brings.

Team still loves the upside of Teoscar.

Lourdes is a legit left fielder.

 

Now who goes to improve this OF?

 

 

My fav part of the off season as a Jays fan is the dumpster diving. After all the good FA tell us they don't want to come to Toronto.

Now go sign Shaw or Sogard as my infield depth piece.

Iglesias or Addison Russell as my Galvis replacement

Edwin or Thames to play 1st

Someone to play CF

Julio Teheran, Bailey, Wood, or Hellickson to munch innings

Jimmy Nelson or Taijuan Walker as my reclamation projects

And Collin McHugh, Jeremy Jeffries and anyone with a pulse that throws left handed out of the pen...even you Liriano.

[Bobthe4th]

Problem being Randal G is signed and locked in and all the mediocrity he brings.

Team still loves the upside of Teoscar.

Lourdes is a legit left fielder.

 

Now who goes to improve this OF?

 

- Hernandez probably has more value and chance of a long term future with the team as a DH/1B vs CF.

- Gurriel can't be locked in as a full time outfielder after only 3 months of playing there (and if he was used as a super utility player that'd potentially help the infield)

- If Grichuk doesn't bounce back to a 1.5-2 WAR player he can be on the bench. If he repeats last year he can be DFA, it's 'only' $28m after this upcoming season as his contract was front loaded.

- Fisher should be on a very short leash.

- The time to give Alford a shot was last season, but might as well see what he does in Spring Training.

- McKinney can f*** off.

[Amok]

Problem being Randal G is signed and locked in and all the mediocrity he brings.

Team still loves the upside of Teoscar.

Lourdes is a legit left fielder.

 

Now who goes to improve this OF?

 

 

My fav part of the off season as a Jays fan is the dumpster diving. After all the good FA tell us they don't want to come to Toronto.

Now go sign Shaw or Sogard as my infield depth piece.

Iglesias or Addison Russell as my Galvis replacement

Edwin or Thames to play 1st

Someone to play CF

Julio Teheran, Bailey, Wood, or Hellickson to munch innings

Jimmy Nelson or Taijuan Walker as my reclamation projects

And Collin McHugh, Jeremy Jeffries and anyone with a pulse that throws left handed out of the pen...even you Liriano.

 

Grichuk will never be good but he should be a 2WAR type player. Last few years 3.0, 2.2, 1.5, 2.1. So the 0.5 last year wasn't normal for him.

 

Lourdes Gurriel Jr. now has 600 career ABs (basically a full season). His line over those 600AB is 31HR .320OBP .499SLG 342/wOBA.

 

Hernandez is my DH but I want to give up on him. But it is hard to do after that amazing second half. He has a 1200ABs now in the majors and chances are we know what we will get.

 

Fisher in RF with those minor league numbers and limited major league ABs is my wild card. I am very interested in the LHB power/speed combo. He could break out or do nothing, but I think he should get a full year to try. It is a rebuilding year so what harm is there?

 

So I do think there is potential for improve in the OF and if they don't then put OF on the shopping list for next season.

[THANOS]

Problem being Randal G is signed and locked in and all the mediocrity he brings.

Team still loves the upside of Teoscar.

Lourdes is a legit left fielder.

 

Now who goes to improve this OF?

 

 

My fav part of the off season as a Jays fan is the dumpster diving. After all the good FA tell us they don't want to come to Toronto.

Now go sign Shaw or Sogard as my infield depth piece.

Iglesias or Addison Russell as my Galvis replacement

Edwin or Thames to play 1st

Someone to play CF

Julio Teheran, Bailey, Wood, or Hellickson to munch innings

Jimmy Nelson or Taijuan Walker as my reclamation projects

And Collin McHugh, Jeremy Jeffries and anyone with a pulse that throws left handed out of the pen...even you Liriano.

 

Do you know if Jimmy Nelson's stuff is still the same as his breakout 2017? If it is, I'd definitely take a stab at him. Seems like an excellent and, likely, low-risk/high-reward gamble to take.

[Olerud363]

Manoah has 17 innings as a professional, it's extremely unlikely that we'll even see him in AAA this year, much less in the MLB after mid-April...

 

It's not unheard of for high first round college pitchers to come fast if they are good. Aaron Nola, Chris Sale... he's 22 not 19.

[Maico450]

It's not unheard of for high first round college pitchers to come fast if they are good. Aaron Nola, Chris Sale... he's 22 not 19.

 

I guess the question is WHY? Even if he can get MLB hitters out at a reasonable rate, which is unlikely, he is not going to have a big impact on the success of the 2020 team.

Better to gain another year or two of experience in the minors, that way he does not get shell shocked at the MLB level. Don't start the clock ticking prematurely.

[TheHurl]

The Rays have no choice, but to be frugal. .

 

see that is your (and many other people's) issue. You assume this is out of necessity rather than the best way to do business. Age has nothing to do with it...it's about using many pitchers with options and putting pitchers into their best chance to be successful by extra days rest (is Glasnow the same pitcher on 4 days rest or was he successful because he was given 5 or 6 days off?), shorter outings and matching them up in the best scenarios. Talent is a factor...but the Jays have a lot of talented pitchers. Sorry if this hurts your ideal way to build a baseball team. But don't worry MLB will keep making rule changes to stop it anyway

[Bobthe4th]

see that is your (and many other people's) issue. You assume this is out of necessity rather than the best way to do business. Age has nothing to do with it...it's about using many pitchers with options and putting pitchers into their best chance to be successful by extra days rest (is Glasnow the same pitcher on 4 days rest or was he successful because he was given 5 or 6 days off?), shorter outings and matching them up in the best scenarios. Talent is a factor...but the Jays have a lot of talented pitchers. Sorry if this hurts your ideal way to build a baseball team. But don't worry MLB will keep making rule changes to stop it anyway

 

It’s such a North American attitude that sports should be run as a business. Sports should provide entertainment (which the Rays fail at, TBF mostly due to factors outside their direct control), and success (which the Rays also fail at, zero World Series titles due in part to prioritising low payroll over spending on areas of need).

[glory]

I hate almost everything about the Rays, so hopefully the Jays are not trying to emulate them going forward, but in 2020 if they need to spam the opener option in order to win games, then by all means do it.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Manoah has 17 innings as a professional, it's extremely unlikely that we'll even see him in AAA this year, much less in the MLB after mid-April...

 

But he's 24, and looks great. If he was 19, I would agree with you.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

I hate almost everything about the Rays, so hopefully the Jays are not trying to emulate them going forward, but in 2020 if they need to spam the opener option in order to win games, then by all means do it.

 

If the emulate the magic the Rays seems to have, plus have the payroll to make huge adds when available, I would be more than happy.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

It's not unheard of for high first round college pitchers to come fast if they are good. Aaron Nola, Chris Sale... he's 22 not 19.

 

Olerud played straight out of college. Granted, and it's a big "granted", he's not a pitcher. But I wouldn't be shocked if Manoah starts this year for the Jays.

[Laika]

Olerud played straight out of college. Granted, and it's a big "granted", he's not a pitcher. But I wouldn't be shocked if Manoah starts this year for the Jays.

 

They have tons of SP depth above Manoah and they likely won't be competing so you SHOULD be shocked if they start Manoah's service time this year.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

They have tons of SP depth above Manoah and they likely won't be competing so you SHOULD be shocked if they start Manoah's service time this year.

 

I think he is a definite May, 2021 candidate, but man if he rolls in AAA why not call him up? I really like him. Maybe more than Pearson. I guess Roark and Anderson have bought time to let him mature and skip starting his service clock.

 

Also, there is depth, but good depth? Guys who you envision as quality starters in 2021+ when things get real? I see Kay as a SP long term, and Pearson and Manoah, but almost everyone else is a meh.

[Spanky99]

But he's 24, and looks great. If he was 19, I would agree with you.

 

Wat?

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Wat?

 

You haven't blocked me yet? Why not?

 

And I was wrong, he's 21. Doh! That's bad, I thought he was way older, obviously. But seriously Spanky99, you hate everything I post. Please put me on ignore. I don't really need your *facepalm* s***. It doesn't add.

[Laika]

I think he is a definite May, 2021 candidate, but man if he rolls in AAA why not call him up? I really like him. Maybe more than Pearson. I guess Roark and Anderson have bought time to let him mature and skip starting his service clock.

 

You need to relax. Even Casey Mize, 1-1 from 2018, only reached AA last year.

 

Even if Manoah develops well as a SP he probably only spends part of 2020 in AA in the first half in Dunedin. If everything goes swimmingly there is a chance at a 2021 debut depending on the MLB situation.

[Spanky99]

You haven't blocked me yet? Why not?

 

He's 21 with 17 pro innings, meat... you're not the boss of me.

[Deadpool]

I think he is a definite May, 2021 candidate, but man if he rolls in AAA why not call him up? I really like him. Maybe more than Pearson. I guess Roark and Anderson have bought time to let him mature and skip starting his service clock.

 

Also, there is depth, but good depth? Guys who you envision as quality starters in 2021+ when things get real? I see Kay as a SP long term, and Pearson and Manoah, but almost everyone else is a meh.

 

He's probably going to spend a month or two in A, then a promotion to AA for most of the year, probably won't sniff AAA, even if he pitches incredibly well, until September.

[Spanky99]

You need to relax. Even Casey Mize, 1-1 from 2018, only reached AA last year.

 

Even if Manoah develops well as a SP he probably only spends part of 2020 in AA in the first half in Dunedin. If everything goes swimmingly there is a chance at a 2021 debut depending on the MLB situation.

 

But... but... he's 24 and looks great!

[SaskJaysFan_2]

But... but... he's 24 and looks great!

 

Okay, I call double jeopardy. I messed up on his age, and owned it earlier. You can't bring that up again. Unless you're a dick. #mate