2020 HOF Votes

[TheHurl]

I was going to post Jeff Blair's ballot in the Around Baseball thread and thought that we bitch about the HOF enough that each year it should get its own thread.

 

Anyway Blair left Schilling and Rolen off but at least voted Bonds, Clemens and Walker.

 

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF!17003&ithint=file,xlsx&authkey=!ALD8BEbKmTajwcI

[Brownie19]

Some ******* decided to only vote for Jeter? what a ****.

[saskjayfan]

This is the year for Walker. I was able to watch Walker live at coors field once which was a real treat and watched a lot of expos games, although not as many as I would have liked as not all the games were on tv back then. The guy was a ridiculously talented player.

[wamco]

Jeter schilling walker rolen

[Sorrow]

My ten would be Jeter, Rolen, Walker, Schilling, Bonds, Clemens, Jones, Sheffield, Ramirez, Giambi

[Laika]

Larry Walker is going to make it, isn't he?

[Jimcanuck]

Larry Walker is going to make it, isn't he?

 

He f***ing should. Even battered and bruised by injuries for the 2nd half of his career, still put up elite numbers.

[G-Snarls]

He f***ing should. Even battered and bruised by injuries for the 2nd half of his career, still put up elite numbers.

 

Only played 1/3 of his games at Coors Field and had stupid good numbers severywhere he played plus great defence. He needs to get in.

[bzapple]

Vizquel shouldn't be getting as many votes as he is. He's the type of player that should drop off the ballot after his first year of eligibility.

[max silver]

Vizquel shouldn't be getting as many votes as he is. He's the type of player that should drop off the ballot after his first year of eligibility.

 

Guys that vote for Omar Vizquel to get into the hall of fame should have their votes removed. This is a guy with a career WAR of only 42.5, and he only produced an above average WRC+ twice in a very lengthy career. Sure he was flashy with the glove, but you would hope it would take more than that to gain entry into such a historically difficult hall of fame to get voted into.

[wamco]

Guys that vote for Omar Vizquel to get into the hall of fame should have their votes removed. This is a guy with a career WAR of only 42.5, and he only produced an above average WRC+ twice in a very lengthy career. Sure he was flashy with the glove, but you would hope it would take more than that to gain entry into such a historically difficult hall of fame to get voted into.

 

That’s extreme

[EMK19]

To be honest I always felt that Tony Fernandez in his prime years played just as good defence as Vizquel did (though admittingly I’m not sure whether that is statistically true). Plus Tony could hit so much better...

 

When I think of Vizquel I always think of that Simpsons scene where Bart robs Milhouse by trading his Vizquel card for Millhouse’ Carl Yastrzemski card, lol.

[max silver]

To be honest I always felt that Tony Fernandez in his prime years played just as good defence as Vizquel did (though admittingly I’m not sure whether that is statistically true). Plus Tony could hit so much better...

 

When I think of Vizquel I always think of that Simpsons scene where Bart robs Milhouse by trading his Vizquel card for Millhouse’ Carl Yastrzemski card, lol.

 

With Fernandez you can at least make the argument that he approached a hall of fame peak at his best.

[Jimcanuck]

To be honest I always felt that Tony Fernandez in his prime years played just as good defence as Vizquel did (though admittingly I’m not sure whether that is statistically true). Plus Tony could hit so much better...

 

When I think of Vizquel I always think of that Simpsons scene where Bart robs Milhouse by trading his Vizquel card for Millhouse’ Carl Yastrzemski card, lol.

 

By the numbers Fernandez was just as good as Vizquel defensively, at least for his first several years. But playing on Exhibition Stadium concrete gave him knee issues and the 2nd half of his career he was just slightly above average due to range losses.

[Terminator]

[Dick_Pole]

I really hope Vizquel can inch up every year so we can get a decade of raging debate over this. Like Morris. I recall a thesis for Blyleven that his vote total went up as the writers were getting more sympathetic to the new stats. Guess that's not the case with Vizquel. He being in the position he is in is simple. He's seen as the 90's Ozzie Smith, a tad lower on defense but also a tad higher on offense (counting stats, but not RC+). Therefore Omar Vizquel = Ozzie Smith.

 

You can look at fangraphs stat sheets and JAWS and assess some random number. Let's say 55 WAR where above that everyone gets in on the first ballot and below that everyone is eliminated on the first ballot. But where is the fun in that? Like it or not, for whatever reason Vizquel has had a greater impact in the collective memories of baseball writers than superior players like Kenny Lofton, the CF version of Vizquel except better in every way, or Yankee playoff hero David Wells. Both of whom immediately fell off of the ballot. The curiosity of baseball.

[Spanky99]

You folks think Abreu gets the votes needed to avoid falling off the ballot?

[saskjayfan]

Larry Walker is getting into the Hall of fame. If the writers blow it and don't put him in this year the veteran's committee will put him in. I'm not sure how the veteran's committee works? Would he be eligible next year or would he have to wait a few years? Larry's Dad, Larry Walker Sr, is 81 and still umpires 6 games a week in the summer. His Dad has a great passion for the game. I'm sure it would mean a lot to him to see his son go in. I hope it happens this year.

[Terminator]

I really hope Vizquel can inch up every year so we can get a decade of raging debate over this. Like Morris. I recall a thesis for Blyleven that his vote total went up as the writers were getting more sympathetic to the new stats. Guess that's not the case with Vizquel. He being in the position he is in is simple. He's seen as the 90's Ozzie Smith, a tad lower on defense but also a tad higher on offense (counting stats, but not RC+). Therefore Omar Vizquel = Ozzie Smith.

 

You can look at fangraphs stat sheets and JAWS and assess some random number. Let's say 55 WAR where above that everyone gets in on the first ballot and below that everyone is eliminated on the first ballot. But where is the fun in that? Like it or not, for whatever reason Vizquel has had a greater impact in the collective memories of baseball writers than superior players like Kenny Lofton, the CF version of Vizquel except better in every way, or Yankee playoff hero David Wells. Both of whom immediately fell off of the ballot. The curiosity of baseball.

 

I agree that you've characterized the discussion around Vizquel, and what writers think of him, as being accurate but Ozzie Smith was significantly better across the board. Better baserunner, better hitter and better defensively. The gaps between the baserunning and offense might be even greater than the defensive gap. Vizquel was simply a good player and nothing more!

[TheHurl]

[Dick_Pole]

I agree that you've characterized the discussion around Vizquel, and what writers think of him, as being accurate but Ozzie Smith was significantly better across the board. Better baserunner, better hitter and better defensively. The gaps between the baserunning and offense might be even greater than the defensive gap. Vizquel was simply a good player and nothing more!

 

Yes agreed. I think a lot of it has to do with baseball writers struggling with the idea that the HOF is supposed to be a very exclusive club compared to other sports. That, and they want to use it to send a political message (Bonds, Clemens). Omar Vizquel *should* be a Hall of Famer by NHL standards. But NHL standards basically rubber stamps anyone who managed to stay in the league 15 years. Guys like McGriff are a dime a dozen now but man a shortstop who wins Gold Gloves for a decade straight, that kinda stands out.

[onwego]

Bonds, Clemens, Dick Allen for 2021...

[Ray]

Walker keeps dropping as more and more ballots keep coming in. He's at 83.9% now. Have a feeling he might not make it at this point.

[Beans]

You folks think Abreu gets the votes needed to avoid falling off the ballot?

I'd vote him in. Unfortunately the HOF has more to do with fame than actual merit (cf. Dick_Pole's point about Vizquel over Lofton). Wouldn't be surprised to see him fall off this year with less than 5%. Would be very sad, as he was always one of my favourites, and my fondness for him only increased when I started playing Fantasy (he was a lock for at least 20-20 and a good average).

[wilko]

I'd vote him in. Unfortunately the HOF has more to do with fame than actual merit (cf. Dick_Pole's point about Vizquel over Lofton). Wouldn't be surprised to see him fall off this year with less than 5%. Would be very sad, as he was always one of my favourites, and my fondness for him only increased when I started playing Fantasy (he was a lock for at least 20-20 and a good average).

 

Abreu was a fantasy stud.

[Spanky99]

I'd vote him in. Unfortunately the HOF has more to do with fame than actual merit (cf. Dick_Pole's point about Vizquel over Lofton). Wouldn't be surprised to see him fall off this year with less than 5%. Would be very sad, as he was always one of my favourites, and my fondness for him only increased when I started playing Fantasy (he was a lock for at least 20-20 and a good average).

 

Abreu was a fantasy stud.

 

Damn right he's a stud, and put up 60 fWAR for his career.

[TheHurl]

Consistency doesn't put you in the hall. Never close to an MVP (real votes or even what should have happened). He is the George Springer of the late 90's, early 2000's.

[Laika]

Consistency doesn't put you in the hall. Never close to an MVP (real votes or even what should have happened). He is the George Springer of the late 90's, early 2000's.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?players=12856,945

 

But really, if Jim Edmonds is going to fall off the ballot in his first year then Bobby Abreu should definitely fall off.

 

Keep the Hall small!

[Terminator]

No to Abreu. Bat was hall worthy but s*** defense prevents him from getting in.

[saskjayfan]

Walker keeps dropping as more and more ballots keep coming in. He's at 83.9% now. Have a feeling he might not make it at this point.

Walker is trending up again. He's at 85% again and gotten a few more guys who didn't vote for him last year. 35.7% of the ballot now known.