We are in year 4 of the Shatkins era. How much time do you give them?

[mikepelfrey]

If they can make it above a 4th place finish in the division in the next 2 years I'd be impressed. This team has a long long way to go yet.

 

the thing is building a pitching staff is the hardest part and they really havent even begun to do that

 

unless you count thornton pannone and Merriweather as a start

 

Pearson is at least 3 years away maybe more if he cant build up innings

[gruber92]

the thing is building a pitching staff is the hardest part and they really havent even begun to do that

 

unless you count thornton pannone and Merriweather as a start

 

Pearson is at least 3 years away maybe more if he cant build up innings

 

Pearson is not 3 years away. Lol

[mikepelfrey]

Pearson is not 3 years away. Lol

 

the guy was a reliever in college or much of it anyway. the common wisdom is you need at least 400 innings to be legitimately ready for starting at the big league level. pearson has a total of 53 innings in 3 years

 

this year hes averaged less than 4 innings per start

 

so youre either a) clueless or extremely over confident LOL

[gruber92]

the guy was a reliever in college or much of it anyway. the common wisdom is you need at least 400 innings to be legitimately ready for starting at the big league level. pearson has a total of 53 innings in 3 years

 

so youre either a) clueless or extremely over confident LOL

 

If you think Pearson will be in the minors for three more years, then you're the one who is clueless brother.

[mikepelfrey]

If you think Pearson will be in the minors for three more years, then you're the one who is clueless brother.

hes been in the minors for 3 years ALREADY. And pitched A TOTAL of 53.2 innings

 

you want to rush and risk ruining him? thats on you

 

for comparison Aaron Sanchez had 385 innngs before making the bigs for good

Syndergaard had 464 innngs before making the bigs for good

[King]

So this is what Mike has been doing in his retirement.

[wk680]

hes been in the minors for 3 years ALREADY. And pitched A TOTAL of 53.2 innings

 

you want to rush and risk ruining him? thats on you

 

for comparison Aaron Sanchez had 385 innngs before making the bigs for good

Syndergaard had 464 innngs before making the bigs for good

 

You also need to consider that Pearson missed most of last season with the arm injury BUT pitched in the Arizona Fall League, for which you have not accounted. If he can pitch 100+ innings this season and another 150 inning next season in AA/AAA, then he can be ready to go in 2021.

[TheHurl]

Injury free he pitches in the majors in 2020 zero doubt.

[mikepelfrey]

Injury free he pitches in the majors in 2020 zero doubt.

 

 

youre still making some big assumptions there. in 9 stars this year he's pitched 32 innings. All im saying is that he has to build up innings before they can expect him to to be big league ready

 

this was a college reliever who was tried as a starter in his final year in college out of necessity, this is not a guy who has a history of going many innings. they are not going to fast track a guy with that profile to the big leagues as a starter. as a reliever sure, they did it with Osuna......

 

but with a guy they see as a future top of the rotation starter they are going to build his innings up first

[wk680]

youre still making some big assumptions there. in 9 stars this year he's pitched 32 innings. All im saying is that he has to build up innings before they can expect him to to be big league ready

 

this was a college reliever who was tried as a starter in his final year in college out of necessity, this is not a guy who has a history of going many innings. they are not going to fast track a guy with that profile to the big leagues as a starter. as a reliever sure, they did it with Osuna......

 

but with a guy they see as a future top of the rotation starter they are going to build his innings up first

 

hard to argue with this - thanks for the input

[P2F]

He could build up his innings at the major league level.

 

[Ex Player]

For some reason this rebuild doesnt have a good feel to it.

 

The biggest question marks for me are Jansen, Gurriel and Biggio (and yes I know its only been 2 games for Cavan)

[tbad]

For some reason this rebuild doesnt have a good feel to it.

 

The biggest question marks for me are Jansen, Gurriel and Biggio (and yes I know its only been 2 games for Cavan)

 

Maybe it's because they've done literally nothing to make this team better in the long run?

[tercet]

Not trading Stroman at his peak value will be this FO next stupid decision.

 

They made a mistake with Donaldson thinking the team could compete in 2018, then eventually trading him for pennies on the dollar.

 

We are now in the start of the "rebuild" most teams take 3-5 years to sniff the playoffs once they start the rebuild, a 30-32 year old Stroman is useless, trade him now to SD, they have so many good young arms that are worth a shot.

[TheHurl]

youre still making some big assumptions there. in 9 stars this year he's pitched 32 innings. All im saying is that he has to build up innings before they can expect him to to be big league ready

 

this was a college reliever who was tried as a starter in his final year in college out of necessity, this is not a guy who has a history of going many innings. they are not going to fast track a guy with that profile to the big leagues as a starter. as a reliever sure, they did it with Osuna......

 

but with a guy they see as a future top of the rotation starter they are going to build his innings up first

 

Your version of the history makes it seem like he went to a 4 year college though, especially with the "necessity". He was a High School starter who didn't get draft interest, despite being undeclared. He joined FIU late so he only got in 30 innings as a reliever. They weren't going to use him as a starter so he moved on to a Junior College where he pitched and got drafted in his second year of college. He threw 101 innings between College and Minors in 2017. Then had the injury in 2018.

 

If they don't lift the (approx) 50 pitch limit by June, then I'll say you could be right. But overall he's on the same development path of another college guy that didn't pitch a lot of innings...Marcus Stroman.

[wk680]

Your version of the history makes it seem like he went to a 4 year college though, especially with the "necessity". He was a High School starter who didn't get draft interest, despite being undeclared. He joined FIU late so he only got in 30 innings as a reliever. They weren't going to use him as a starter so he moved on to a Junior College where he pitched and got drafted in his second year of college. He threw 101 innings between College and Minors in 2017. Then had the injury in 2018.

 

If they don't lift the (approx) 50 pitch limit by June, then I'll say you could be right. But overall he's on the same development path of another college guy that didn't pitch a lot of innings...Marcus Stroman.

 

nice info

[BTS]

He could build up his innings at the major league level.

 

 

lol, yeah I was going to say that. Like, if he can give you 100 innings in 2020, why have them at AAA?

[mikepelfrey]

Your version of the history makes it seem like he went to a 4 year college though, especially with the "necessity". He was a High School starter who didn't get draft interest, despite being undeclared. He joined FIU late so he only got in 30 innings as a reliever. They weren't going to use him as a starter so he moved on to a Junior College where he pitched and got drafted in his second year of college. He threw 101 innings between College and Minors in 2017. Then had the injury in 2018.

 

If they don't lift the (approx) 50 pitch limit by June, then I'll say you could be right. But overall he's on the same development path of another college guy that didn't pitch a lot of innings...Marcus Stroman.

youre right about Stroman. but not many pitchers are capable of doing that, Honestly I think the Chip on His Shoulder, helps Stroman and has since he played in high school in the Neighborhood on Long Island. Im just saying that typical pitchers dont follow that path. If a Guy like Syndergaard a veritable moose of a man needed 464 or a talented Kid like Sanchez needed 385, and Even Randy Johnson got 400 innings in the minors before he made the Big Leagues for good, and Roy Halladay got 493 innings.

 

Im just saying that despite the outliers, which happen on occasion, MOST pitchers need a certain amount of innings to hone their skills and I dont think rushing a guy with Pearsons talents is a wise idea. obvously the front office agrees, or they wouldnt be limiting him in the first place..... after all they dont do it with everyone else

Edited May 26, 2019 by mikepelfrey

[mikepelfrey]

lol, yeah I was going to say that. Like, if he can give you 100 innings in 2020, why have them at AAA?

 

because most kids arent ready emotionally to handle that type of pressure. Like anyone else they want to succeed and May hurt themselves trying to do too much. Borucki is a good example of this....

 

Id rather be cautious with a kid and let him develop at his own pace rather than put him in a position where his own natural enthusiasm, could damage him

 

remember were dealing with human beings here, not Machines......one would hope that the people making these decisions, are smart enough to protect them from themselves. because at that age they feel they can do anything.

 

it reminds me of Tim Leary Who posted a 10-2 record in his senior year at Santa Monica High School , and was named to the 1976 All- CIF first-team. He went 19-1 to lead his American Legion Baseball team to the national championship. He was considered the Roger Clemens of his day and he received the opportunity to play college baseball at UCLA.

 

He attended the University of California, Los Angeles , where he was a three-year letterwinner in baseball on top of completing an economics degree. Over his college career, Leary compiled a 21-15 record with a 3.09 earned run average . His sixteen complete games is a school record, and his 258 strikeouts are the school's fourth highest total.

 

In 1978 , he helped lead the USA Amateur Team to the silver medal in the World Cup played in Italy. He was also a member of the 1979 Pan Am Team . Leary was selected by the New York Mets as the second overall pick of the 1979 Major League Baseball draft . He went 15-8 with a 2.76 ERA and 138 strikeouts for the Jackson Mets in his first professional season, prompting the Mets to make the controversial decision to bring him all the way to the majors for his second season. Making his major league debut on April 12, 1981 , Leary faced just seven batters, on a cold april day. before leaving the game after just two innings with a strained elbow. He was never the same after that, and said on MLB-TV, that teams are much mare cautious today

Edited May 26, 2019 by mikepelfrey

[TheHurl]

Nice cut and paste from Wikipedia. Could have also been told as "got injured in his debut" took a few years to get back on track. Had a great season in 1988 and a few other okay ones.

[Rusty_Savage]

because most kids arent ready emotionally to handle that type of pressure. Like anyone else they want to succeed and May hurt themselves trying to do too much. Borucki is a good example of this....

 

Id rather be cautious with a kid and let him develop at his own pace rather than put him in a position where his own natural enthusiasm, could damage him

 

remember were dealing with human beings here, not Machines......one would hope that the people making these decisions, are smart enough to protect them from themselves. because at that age they feel they can do anything.

 

it reminds me of Tim Leary Who posted a 10-2 record in his senior year at Santa Monica High School , and was named to the 1976 All- CIF first-team. He went 19-1 to lead his American Legion Baseball team to the national championship. He was considered the Roger Clemens of his day and he received the opportunity to play college baseball at UCLA.

 

He attended the University of California, Los Angeles , where he was a three-year letterwinner in baseball on top of completing an economics degree. Over his college career, Leary compiled a 21-15 record with a 3.09 earned run average . His sixteen complete games is a school record, and his 258 strikeouts are the school's fourth highest total.

 

In 1978 , he helped lead the USA Amateur Team to the silver medal in the World Cup played in Italy. He was also a member of the 1979 Pan Am Team . Leary was selected by the New York Mets as the second overall pick of the 1979 Major League Baseball draft . He went 15-8 with a 2.76 ERA and 138 strikeouts for the Jackson Mets in his first professional season, prompting the Mets to make the controversial decision to bring him all the way to the majors for his second season. Making his major league debut on April 12, 1981 , Leary faced just seven batters, on a cold april day. before leaving the game after just two innings with a strained elbow. He was never the same after that, and said on MLB-TV, that teams are much mare cautious today

 

I ran into this fella on another Jays forum. You guys are going to have fun with him.

[Boxcar]

hes been in the minors for 3 years ALREADY. And pitched A TOTAL of 53.2 innings

 

you want to rush and risk ruining him? thats on you

 

for comparison Aaron Sanchez had 385 innngs before making the bigs for good

Syndergaard had 464 innngs before making the bigs for good

 

Chris Sale had 0 innings.

[Jimcanuck]

In general, you want your arms in MLB as soon as they are ready. Arms have an expiry date.

[Deadpool]

Maybe it's because they've done literally nothing to make this team better in the long run?

 

Posts like this are why we need an Anti-Thanks button.

[DigitalRock]

Posts like this are why we need an Anti-Thanks button.

 

A thumbs up or down system.

[Stoneyen]

Bump for Cal

[wk680]

I'm not sure why I didn't vote on this poll when it came out. The question is "If the team isn't contending by year X". However, my understanding is that Shapiro's 5 year contract ends after the 2020 season, and his boy Atkins got a 1 year extension through 2020. So, the big decision on these guys seems to be coming after 2020, unless both can be extended for 1 more year.

 

In that light, I vote that unless the team is STRONGLY trending up in 2020, pull the plug on these guys. That means they need to do some heavy lifting to get the pitching staff up to some semblance of respectability (from the current wasteland) and get this team looking like they on a path to succeed in 2021 and beyond, Otherwise, I would cut both of them.

[Jimcanuck]

Been discussed already, fully expect the Jays to be active in the free agent market this offseason. A lot of budget room and the team needs to progress from 2019.

[Barkerfan23]

How can you take Atkins seriously anymore

 

Again great drafting. Pearson is going to be a top ten prospect next year probably. Still.

 

Wish you could have someone else do the trades

[Barkerfan23]

Been discussed already, fully expect the Jays to be active in the free agent market this offseason. A lot of budget room and the team needs to progress from 2019.

 

Why we already have 20 starting pitchers