Charlie Montoyo Egregious Mistake Tracking Thread

[polar bear]

Birds.

 

LOL!

[glory]

Once again it's highly unlikely managing Vlad's workload involves pulling him in the ninth inning

 

Maybe it's to avoid him playing more than 9 innings.

 

(I'm trying here).

[Krylian]

Maybe it's to avoid him playing more than 9 innings.

 

(I'm trying here).

 

#loadmanagement

[Olerud363]

There is already a thread to complain about every meaningless mistake Charlie has made that will cost the team 7 runs over the course of the season. Let's talk about the things that could cost the team hundreds of runs over a period of years.

 

The good

 

Pitching and run prevention - this is better then anyone thought it would be. Luck?? Pete Walker?? Charlie's advice??

 

Run differential - because of the good pitching it's fine.

 

Offense - this is way worse than anyone thought. Every young player including your friend, Vladimir Guerrero JR., has a k/bb ratio far worse than predicted. The mediocre guys who we expected to hit .250 .320 .400 or whatever, and hold the fort until the real prospects came are terrible. The first real prospect to show up has swung wildly and has more terrible swings in 5 days than I thought he would in a couple of months (sure it will probably normalize... but if using the Tercet scouting system we've already seen enough bad swings to write VGJ off).

 

Player development - same as above. Including a guy had to be sent down because of mental issues on defense. The best hitting prospect in a generation is swinging at everything.

 

Is this Charlie's fault at all?? Choice of hitting coach?? Maybe the analytics department has them all messed up somehow with them looking for the wrong patterns??

 

What is happening?? Anything wrong with the process? Or just bad luck so far??

[Olerud363]

Also - do you think the stupid little things Charlie does indicate lack of intelligence, and without inteligence he can't do the big things right. If he doesn't understand the math behind the bunt, he can't understand pitch sequences, how to hire a hitting coach, and how to mentor young players?? Like when they start throwing Vladdy crap, Charlie isn't getting it, and telling Vladdy to swing hard cuz they always throw rookies fastballs down the middle... (it's not that simple, but I mean Charlie and the hitting coach just aren't up to recognizing all the pitching patterns opposing teams are using on his guys).

[TheHurl]

There is already a thread to complain about every meaningless mistake Charlie has made that will cost the team 7 runs over the course of the season. Let's talk about the things that could cost the team hundreds of runs over a period of years.

 

Seriously I don't care enough about this and no manager can a team hundreds of runs. If they could they would be paid more. If you have something that is beyond speculation start your own thread.

[Brownie19]

Seriously I don't care enough about this and no manager can a team hundreds of runs. If they could they would be paid more. If you have something that is beyond speculation start your own thread.

 

He's not saying those bigger issues are all on Charlie - instead noting that instead of picking on the small stuff - maybe we should be looking at some of the bigger issues that are developing. I don't think he's wrong.

 

From what I've seen and more importantly heard from Charlie - I do question whether he has the proper mindset to lead this team forward. While he seems like a great guy, he seems to have a very old school mentality - one I hope doesn't propagate through the team and organization and set us back.

 

We've read articles from other organizations who didn't fully embrace the advances statistics until very recently (Barnhart talks about how the previous Reds staff didn't embrace it here - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sunday-notes-tucker-barnhart-is-embracing-data-because-now-he-can/). It appears the organization that were behind the trend were generally unsuccessful.

 

The FO has seemingly embraced players who hit the ball hard, but have no patience or approach at the plate. They obviously felt there was value to be had with that type of player. The recent increase in high fastballs and more breaking balls out of the zone may expose this type of player (even more) - rendering those players useless. It appears there are some flaws in the system that need to be addressed.....ones that are significantly more important than whether Charlie is pinch running for Vladdy.

[TheHurl]

He's not saying those bigger issues are all on Charlie - instead noting that instead of picking on the small stuff - maybe we should be looking at some of the bigger issues that are developing. I don't think he's wrong.

 

From what I've seen and more importantly heard from Charlie - I do question whether he has the proper mindset to lead this team forward. While he seems like a great guy, he seems to have a very old school mentality - one I hope doesn't propagate through the team and organization and set us back.

 

We've read articles from other organizations who didn't fully embrace the advances statistics until very recently (Barnhart talks about how the previous Reds staff didn't embrace it here - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sunday-notes-tucker-barnhart-is-embracing-data-because-now-he-can/). It appears the organization that were behind the trend were generally unsuccessful.

 

I don't care. We don't need another opinion thread. When he has something to back up his theories he gets his own thread on the subject. Not to mention he's either basing system wide problems on individual incidents or small sample sizes. Or he's in a very Olerud way making fun of those who are freaking out, which may be the case but still not worth it's own thread.

 

I have lots of theories on things. I find a spot for them in existing threads unless i have actual facts to back me up.

[Brownie19]

I don't care. We don't need another opinion thread. When he has something to back up his theories he gets his own thread on the subject. Not to mention he's either basing system wide problems on individual incidents or small sample sizes. Or he's in a very Olerud way making fun of those who are freaking out, which may be the case but still not worth it's own thread.

 

I have lots of theories on things. I find a spot for them in existing threads unless i have actual facts to back me up.

 

oh sorry - I don't care about new thread / existing thread discussion. I probably agree with you - dump it in here. My point is that I think he has a point.

[Terminator]

The spineless Montoyo will do nothing about Aaron Sanchez's post-game comments! Watch!

[BigCecil]

I love this thread King. Thanks for starting.

 

I've been watching pretty much every game and Im struggling with this guy. Im gonna f***ing barf if I have to hear anymore "small ball" fapping.

 

Im ok with sitting Vlad Jr every now and then even if he is 20, but why when he could have faced LHP? The pinch running for Hanson, who isn't even faster, is a face palm.

[Maahfaace]

The spineless Montoyo will do nothing about Aaron Sanchez's post-game comments! Watch!

 

Sanchez needs a nice open palm slap to the lips.

[BigCecil]

The spineless Montoyo will do nothing about Aaron Sanchez's post-game comments! Watch!

 

Read Sanchez comments after seeing your post. Give me a f***ing break. Between the BBs and the hard contact he gives up he really should be a lot quieter post game.

[Terminator]

I love this thread King. Thanks for starting.

 

I've been watching pretty much every game and Im struggling with this guy. Im gonna f***ing barf if I have to hear anymore "small ball" fapping.

 

Im ok with sitting Vlad Jr every now and then even if he is 20, but why when he could have faced LHP? The pinch running for Hanson, who isn't even faster, is a face palm.

 

Good point about sitting him vs. a lefty. Should have at least DH'd him.

[wilko]

The spineless Montoyo will do nothing about Aaron Sanchez's post-game comments! Watch!

 

No kidding. How about working on that near 50/50 k/bb ratio.

[Boxcar]

Sanchez needs a nice open palm slap to the lips.

 

I'm confused...does Aaron Sanchez think he's...good?

[Olerud363]

per 162 games

 

- ~ -12 runs from stupid mistakes (bunting, pinch running, etc.)

- ~ -200 runs from worst on base percentage in the league.

[Slade]

I wonder if Sanchez looks at his line every start and thinks "yep I did my job".

 

Edit forgot the quote: “I wish I woulda, you know, got some help out there. The outcome would have been a little bit different.”

[Boxcar]

I wonder if Sanchez looks at his line every start and thinks "yep I did my job".

 

Probably only cares about earned runs.

[Olerud363]

per 162 games

 

- ~ -12 runs from stupid mistakes (bunting, pinch running, etc.)

- ~ -200 runs from worst on base percentage in the league.

 

Come to think of it the entire thing is kind of ironic. Since Charlie and the coaching staff are terrible at helping mediocre hitters avoid a .260 on base percentage and get it up to .300, and are terrible at at least STARTING* 80 grade hitting prospects off on the right foot...

 

Given they got the team on base percentage down to .290 the bunting might actually be increasing the expected runs scored from 590 to 592 or something.

[Brownie19]

Good point about sitting him vs. a lefty. Should have at least DH'd him.

 

I think the need for a mental break outweighed the option of getting him in v. a lefty.

[tbad]

He strikes me as a bit of a simpleton, it least relative to other big league managers.

[Olerud363]

He strikes me as a bit of a simpleton, it least relative to other big league managers.

 

Charlie Montoya Report Card

 

Pitching and Defense - B

The little things (line up and bunting) - F-

Get the Boys on Base (.290 so far) - F-

Develop the young players ** - F+

 

** Every young player other than Rowdy is a disaster, and he's gotten "the best prospect ever" off to a terrible start. Would be F- other than Rowdy.

 

What else do we evaluate these guys on?? Agree/Disagree with the rating?

[gruber92]

Charlie Montoya Report Card

 

Pitching and Defense - B

The little things (line up and bunting) - F-

Get the Boys on Base (.290 so far) - F-

Develop the young players ** - F+

 

** Every young player other than Rowdy is a disaster, and he's gotten "the best prospect ever" off to a terrible start. Would be F- other than Rowdy.

 

What else do we evaluate these guys on?? Agree/Disagree with the rating?

 

Lol, wow.

[Spanky99]

Charlie Montoya Report Card

 

Pitching and Defense - B

The little things (line up and bunting) - F-

Get the Boys on Base (.290 so far) - F-

Develop the young players ** - F+

 

** Every young player other than Rowdy is a disaster, and he's gotten "the best prospect ever" off to a terrible start. Would be F- other than Rowdy.

 

What else do we evaluate these guys on?? Agree/Disagree with the rating?

 

Please stop.

[Olerud363]

Lol, wow.

 

You disagree with the ratings?? How so??

 

a) Do you think he should of gotten an A for pitching and defense??

Take a look at the comments on this thread. I don't care that much either way because the small things are small, but that being said assume there is a 15 run swing because of the small things he's at about -15.

c) The team is on pace for the second worst on base percentage in team history, only the 1981 team was worse. The expansion 77 team was 25 points higher. What other mark than F could you give??

d) Every young player other than Rowdy has been terrible. The best prospect in baseball history has gotten off to a terrible start, a high profile cuban signing had to be sent down because of mental issues on defense. What other mark could you give him??

 

I'm open to discussion. This is only a 5 week report card. Things could get better. Or maybe not.

[Olerud363]

Please stop.

 

What's so bad about the comment?? The entire premise of this thread is that Charlie is an idiot who can't do the small things right at all. This will cost the team 10-20 runs this year.

 

However if he is indeed an idiot, his idiocy could show up in other areas such as player development and hitting approach.

 

The ratings I gave are absolutely fair, given what has happened so far. Things may change quickly. But given the team has a .290 on base percentage, given the young players have been a disaster, Charlie deserves an F. If this trend continued over the entire season Charlie would get an F from everyone (for offense, for pitching and defense he deserves an B or even A-).

 

The only reason you are annoyed at the comment is because you assume (as do I) the trends won't continue. I'm just pointing out how bad the last 5 weeks have been in terms of offense and player development.

[Spanky99]

What's so bad about the comment?? The entire premise of this thread is that Charlie is an idiot who can't do the small things right at all. This will cost the team 10-20 runs this year.

 

However if he is indeed an idiot, his idiocy could show up in other areas such as player development and hitting approach.

 

The ratings I gave are absolutely fair, given what has happened so far. Things may change quickly. But given the team has a .290 on base percentage, given the young players have been a disaster, Charlie deserves an F. If this trend continued over the entire season Charlie would get an F from everyone (for offense, for pitching and defense he deserves an B or even A-).

 

The only reason you are annoyed at the comment is because you assume (as do I) the trends won't continue. I'm just pointing out how bad the last 5 weeks have been in terms of offense and player development.

 

Most of your dumn, isn't on the manager. That's why? PR VGJ late in games dumn, bunting dumn... player's performance is on them, they're big boys. I honestly thought your s*** posting was satire, apparently this isn't the case.

[TheHurl]

.

 

Look at the pretty picture ... isn't it beautiful. Now back away from the keyboard and enjoy your Sunday afternoon

[Spanky99]

Look at the pretty picture ... isn't it beautiful. Now back away from the keyboard and enjoy your Sunday afternoon

 

Lmfbo!