General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[saskjayfan]

Only an irresponsible GM would bank on something like this. I think spending on a legit #1 or 2 along with a proven durable #3-4 would do this team a world of good in so many ways. The investment would be well worth it.

 

I'm all for going and getting cole and spending money on some pitching, the problem is finding someone actually willing to come here.

[gruber92]

I'm all for going and getting cole and spending money on some pitching, the problem is finding someone actually willing to come here.

 

Yeah, that's the thing. Having the robotic Shatkins duo doing the selling doesn't help us either. f*** it and overpay a little.

[Brownie19]

Rookie workloads for position players is some made up stupid s*** that some moron came up with. A positional playing rookie literally doesn't need much time off at all, maybe once/twice a month on top of scheduled days off.

 

That's BS. The grind of the major league schedule + all the added travel is a real thing. We understand the body more now than we ever did and teams invest significant money into it these days...they know what they're doing.

[gruber92]

That's BS. The grind of the major league schedule + all the added travel is a real thing. We understand the body more now than we ever did and teams invest significant money into it these days...they know what they're doing.

 

So players 30 years ago didn't go through the same regiment the players do today? Actually, teams don't even run pre game infields today, so players in the past actually did more. The investment are all relevant to the time, so that's ********. Baseball has been turned into a pussy fart game by all the snowflakes that have engulfed us nowadays.

[Brownie19]

Girchuk was showing power at the big league level at 23. Derek Fisher is 25 and hasn't exactly excelled at the big league level until now and has PCL stats the last 3 years. I will give you he has significantly better plate discipline than Grichuk, but pretty much everyone does.

 

You need playing time to prove yourself. Don't look, but Houston has a pretty solid history of players who crushed the minors and were never really given a chance to prove themselves at the ML level. Kyle Tucker, J.D. Davis, Fisher, Tyler White, Domingo Santana, Jonathan Villar. Davis, Santana and Villar all excelled in other organization once they were given a chance. Tucker's still considered a top 15 prospect who's stuck in AAA and now White and Fisher have a chance with new organizations.

 

Fisher clearly has pop. You can say he's in the PCL, but wRC+ is league adjusted and he's well above average. Give him a f***ing chance.

[Brownie19]

So players 30 years ago didn't go through the same regiment the players do today? Actually, teams don't even run pre game infields today, so players in the past actually did more. The investment are all relevant to the time, so that's ********. Baseball has been turned into a pussy fart game by all the snowflakes that have engulfed us nowadays.

 

Why do you think greenies and coke were so wildly used throughout the league?

 

The quality of baseball is so high you simply can't play at 75% these days.

[Brownie19]

Of interest, Jason Frasor was on the radio broadcast tonight talking about what it was like to be a rookie in the majors. He gave a lot of credit to Pat Hengten and a few other guys. He also said that Doc never gave much time to rookies and that he was super intimidated and scare being around Doc. Thought that was interesting.

[gruber92]

Why do you think greenies and coke were so wildly used throughout the league?

 

The quality of baseball is so high you simply can't play at 75% these days.

 

So now you're saying the majority of players did coke and greenies 30 years ago and played at 75%? C'mon man stop.

[Bobthe4th]

So players 30 years ago didn't go through the same regiment the players do today? Actually, teams don't even run pre game infields today, so players in the past actually did more. The investment are all relevant to the time, so that's ********. Baseball has been turned into a pussy fart game by all the snowflakes that have engulfed us nowadays.

 

TBF baseball hasn’t made as many advancements as other sports that dedicate more time to training and less to games, but the answer is no they don’t.

 

Advancements in sports science have vastly changed training and preparation in all sports. The players in all sports are on average faster, fitter, and more consistent. There’s less room for taking a day off, or being at less than your best, both because of the higher standards and the increased exposure (i.e. every moment of every game is televised).

[L54]

So now you're saying the majority of players did coke and greenies 30 years ago and played at 75%? C'mon man stop.

 

You're equating taking pre game inny/outty as doing more work over the course of the year. C'mon man stahp it

[gruber92]

You're equating taking pre game inny/outty as doing more work over the course of the year. C'mon man stahp it

 

You can do better than that.

[Ex Player]

Kay pitched 5 innings tonight, gave up 2 ER, 4 hits, 3 walks and 6 K's (1HR).

 

So not a bad outing

[BTS]

You need playing time to prove yourself. Don't look, but Houston has a pretty solid history of players who crushed the minors and were never really given a chance to prove themselves at the ML level. Kyle Tucker, J.D. Davis, Fisher, Tyler White, Domingo Santana, Jonathan Villar. Davis, Santana and Villar all excelled in other organization once they were given a chance. Tucker's still considered a top 15 prospect who's stuck in AAA and now White and Fisher have a chance with new organizations.

 

Fisher clearly has pop. You can say he's in the PCL, but wRC+ is league adjusted and he's well above average. Give him a f***ing chance.

 

I don't know about this narrative. Domingo Santana is a ~110 wRC+ DH masquerading as an OF, Tyler White is Rowdy Tellez. We'll see what kind of player Davis ends up being. Villar has put together a nice few years, but I wouldn't say anyone but him from this group has excelled since leaving the org.

[Ziggyy108]

Let's just sign Rendon in the offseason and force Vladdy to 1B.

[Ex Player]

Let's just sign Rendon in the offseason and force Vladdy to 1B

Is there a reason why you think the Nats wont resign him??

[BTS]

Is there a reason why you think the Nats wont resign him??

 

Well, he's a pending FA who's represented by Scott Boras and about to sign a $200M contract, so I don't think it's really outrageous to suggest he might be available.

[Bobthe4th]

Well, he's a pending FA who's represented by Scott Boras and about to sign a $200M contract, so I don't think it's really outrageous to suggest he might be available.

 

That's also the reason why we won't be signing him (even though we have the payroll space if Shatkins wanted to).

[Brownie19]

I don't know about this narrative. Domingo Santana is a ~110 wRC+ DH masquerading as an OF, Tyler White is Rowdy Tellez. We'll see what kind of player Davis ends up being. Villar has put together a nice few years, but I wouldn't say anyone but him from this group has excelled since leaving the org.

 

We'll see. All I'm saying is Houston's traded a number of positional players who tore up the minors without giving them an extended look in the majors. Some of those guys have thrived when given the opportunity in other organizations. Santana's posted a 3.1 WAR season, Davis is at 1.6 WAR over 297 PA's this year, Villar's had a 3 WAR season and a couple more 2+ WAR seasons. Those would be pretty nice outcomes for Fisher.

 

Point being - the narrative seems to be a bit that the mighty Astros FO is one of the best in the business and can do no wrong. If they don't want Fisher, he must suck. Just trying to note they've let some good ball players go via trade the past few years.

[Brownie19]

So now you're saying the majority of players did coke and greenies 30 years ago and played at 75%? C'mon man stop.

 

Are you trying to argue that players weren't using greenies from about 1970 (or earlier) until they were banned in the mid 2000's? It was to baseball what steriods were in the late 1990's and 2000's man. Extensive use throughout the game.

[Ex Player]

Well, he's a pending FA who's represented by Scott Boras and about to sign a $200M contract, so I don't think it's really outrageous to suggest he might be available

Not in a million years will Rogers sign a FA like that

[Ex Player]

Are you trying to argue that players weren't using greenies from about 1970 (or earlier) until they were banned in the mid 2000's? It was to baseball what steriods were in the late 1990's and 2000's man. Extensive use throughout the game.

Opiates are a big problem too:

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-aug-01-sp-d2dawgcomment1-story.html%3f_amp=true

[Laika]

Toronto is sitting 5th last in the league, now ten games "back" of the #1 pick.

 

There is a decent chance, with the recent promotions, that they continue slide in the tankathon standings. I would expect them to finish in the 5th to 8th overall pick range. A month or so ago it looked like they might be bad enough to get the #2 or #3 pick.

 

Do you care?

[Ex Player]

Toronto is sitting 5th last in the league, now ten games "back" of the #1 pick.

 

There is a decent chance, with the recent promotions, that they continue slide in the tankathon standings. I would expect them to finish in the 5th to 8th overall pick range. A month or so ago it looked like they might be bad enough to get the #2 or #3 pick.

 

Do you care?

How do you tank games though?? The new SP's wanna prove themselves to make the team, so they're not gonna start throwing BP balls. Position players like Biggio, Bo....etc are also not gonna strikeout on purpose, they too want to be around next year.

 

AFA guys like Smoak are concerned, if they start tanking AB's they reduce their trade or FA value

[Brownie19]

How do you tank games though?? The new SP's wanna prove themselves to make the team, so they're not gonna start throwing BP balls. Position players like Biggio, Bo....etc are also not gonna strikeout on purpose, they too want to be around next year.

 

AFA guys like Smoak are concerned, if they start tanking AB's they reduce their trade or FA value

 

You tank by playing shittier players and tell people you're 'giving them an opportunity to prove themselves' or 'we want to see what we have with these guys'

 

 

The reality is, we probably have a bit too much talent on the roster now to really tank. Trading Sanchez and releasing Edwin Jackson really hurt our chances. We want the young guys to succeed and as a result, we probably fall to the 5th to 8th pick. Do I care? Not really. I'd rather have the 1st overall pick obviously, but not at the expense of our young players failing.

[Krylian]

Toronto is sitting 5th last in the league, now ten games "back" of the #1 pick.

 

There is a decent chance, with the recent promotions, that they continue slide in the tankathon standings. I would expect them to finish in the 5th to 8th overall pick range. A month or so ago it looked like they might be bad enough to get the #2 or #3 pick.

 

Do you care?

 

I do. Obviously I want our young kids doing well, but I think our rotation is so bad that they will keep us in the Top 5 pick position.

[z3r0s]

I can see us picking 5, but I don't see us "catching" anyone ahead (behind) us. I'd be somehow disappointed if we picked as low as 8, but really the most important things is our young position players playing well. The pitching should keep us in "contention" for 5

[AintNoThang]

Guerrero's Instagram story indicates that he discovered poutine, and followed it with 3 fire emojis. God help us all.

[Slade]

Guerrero's Instagram story indicates that he discovered poutine, and followed it with 3 fire emojis. God help us all.

 

It's called carbo-loading all the best athletes do it. You wouldn't understand, it's a secrit.

[Jonn]

f*** Montoyo for putting Vlad on the bench. Finally had an afternoon game off. God damnit.

[DigitalRock]

Tanking In baseball is dum.