General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[The Iceman]

OK, if Elvis Luciano/the worst pitcher in baseball ever comes in to pitch while I am at a game I would like to walk upstairs and kick Shatkins in the NUTS. At home I can at least turn off the TV.

 

I am not asking for them to give me prospect Travis Bergen back, just release this kid and free up a roster spot for another useful player. It is bad enough that the team is s*** and carries 3 OF, don't have our poor rookie Manager handcuffed by this kid further.

[Krylian]

Agreed shut the f*** up you whiny bitches.

 

??? What exactly am I whining about.

[Krylian]

OK, if Elvis Luciano/the worst pitcher in baseball ever comes in to pitch while I am at a game I would like to walk upstairs and kick Shatkins in the NUTS. At home I can at least turn off the TV.

 

I am not asking for them to give me prospect Travis Bergen back, just release this kid and free up a roster spot for another useful player. It is bad enough that the team is s*** and carries 3 OF, don't have our poor rookie Manager handcuffed by this kid further.

 

I'm not sure the picture could be any smaller that you're looking at.

[wk680]

I'm not sure the picture could be any smaller that you're looking at.

 

One thing I do like is the kid does seem to take getting hit around with a certain degree of stoicism, perhaps indicating he is mentally tough. With so much of the game being between the ears, that bodes well for him. If he goes on to be a top of the rotation guy, everyone will obviously be praising this "stroke of genius".

[SaskJaysFan_2]

OK, if Elvis Luciano/the worst pitcher in baseball ever comes in to pitch while I am at a game I would like to walk upstairs and kick Shatkins in the NUTS. At home I can at least turn off the TV.

 

I am not asking for them to give me prospect Travis Bergen back, just release this kid and free up a roster spot for another useful player. It is bad enough that the team is s*** and carries 3 OF, don't have our poor rookie Manager handcuffed by this kid further.

 

That's right, a potential elite arm has no place on a WS contending team.

 

You must think the Jays are a contender, right? And not an awful, rebuilding team, who after this year can allow this kid to develop into (potentially) an elite pitcher with a few years development in the farm system?

[BTS]

That's right, a potential elite arm has no place on a WS contending team.

 

You must think the Jays are a contender, right? And not an awful, rebuilding team, who after this year can allow this kid to develop into (potentially) an elite pitcher with a few years development in the farm system?

 

What I still don't understand: if they think Luciano has elite upside, why not just give KC something for him and develop him properly?

[Laika]

What I still don't understand: if they think Luciano has elite upside, why not just give KC something for him and develop him properly?

 

they are trying to collect assets, not swap assets

 

duh

[Terminator]

What I still don't understand: if they think Luciano has elite upside, why not just give KC something for him and develop him properly?

 

Agreed. Throw them a player where we have extra org depth, some cash or perhaps even international money.

 

At this point it's safe to say that the juice (a Top 25-30 organizational prospect) just isn't worth the squeeze (rostering one of the worst relievers in baseball on the 25 man all season long). If Elvis was a Top 10 organizational prospect type then fine but he's not. On top of it I wonder how this affects his development. Can't be ideal.

[Terminator]

Haven't seen this mentioned yet but Zac Rosscup was claimed. Going to need to make a move for him. Will definitely be a reliever but I'm not sure who. Could be Feierabend even though he doesn't have options.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

What I still don't understand: if they think Luciano has elite upside, why not just give KC something for him and develop him properly?

 

You don't think the Jays have tried that?

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Agreed. Throw them a player where we have extra org depth, some cash or perhaps even international money.

 

At this point it's safe to say that the juice (a Top 25-30 organizational prospect) just isn't worth the squeeze (rostering one of the worst relievers in baseball on the 25 man all season long). If Elvis was a Top 10 organizational prospect type then fine but he's not. On top of it I wonder how this affects his development. Can't be ideal.

 

If he stays a Jay, and stay down until he's 24-years old, the 2019 season is not going to make or break him. Unless he is super weak mentally. In which case, pitching in the bigs may not be for him.

[Terminator]

Haven't seen this mentioned yet but Zac Rosscup was claimed. Going to need to make a move for him. Will definitely be a reliever but I'm not sure who. Could be Feierabend even though he doesn't have options.

 

Need to clear a spot on the 40 man for Biggio too so I think Feierband is definitely toast.

[Orgfiller]

What I still don't understand: if they think Luciano has elite upside, why not just give KC something for him and develop him properly?

 

Because Kansas City has all the leverage. Even if they only view him as a C prospect they could be asking for a B prospect or higher in return. The Jays stole an asset from them, they're not going to play fair for the Jays to outright keep him.

[BTS]

Because Kansas City has all the leverage. Even if they only view him as a C prospect they could be asking for a B prospect or higher in return. The Jays stole an asset from them, they're not going to play fair for the Jays to outright keep him.

 

It feels like Toronto must place immense value on Luciano in order to do what they’re doing. And they’ve already displayed to KC that they’re willing to carry him on the 25-man. Seems like there should be a deal to be made: KC would be motivated to get something instead of nothing, and Toronto would be motivated to let what they clearly see as a very valuable asset develop properly at the cost of an asset of lesser value. I wonder which of two things is closer to true: KC is stubbornly refusing to talk and is turning down an asset out of principle, or Atkins prefers to keep Luciano on the 25-man than give up a lesser piece to move him to the minors.

[saskjayfan]

What I still don't understand: if they think Luciano has elite upside, why not just give KC something for him and develop him properly?

 

How do you know they haven't already? KC is rebuilding too. They could be pissed that the Jays took him in the first place and are being unreasonable in requests.

[Ex Player]

Vladdie now has 4 errors on the season. Thats puts him at about 28 to 30 errors for a whole year.

 

I guess thats trade-off we're gonna have to live with

[Deadpool]

Vladdie now has 4 errors on the season. Thats puts him at about 28 to 30 errors for a whole year.

 

I guess thats trade-off we're gonna have to live with

 

His UZR/150 is at -6.9 (though horrifically small sample size). You're looking at a slightly below average MLB 3B. That's not terrible for ANY 20 year old, much less one with Vladdy's bat. I'd rate him as better than expected, and perfectly cromulent when the whole package is considered.

[Barkerfan23]

I have a feeling Biggio is going to be a really good hitter, this might have been a steal in the 5th round.

[Ex Player]

George Brett also had a bunch of seasons where he committed around 25 to 30 errors at 3B:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/brettge01.shtml

[Laika]

I have a feeling Biggio is going to be a really good hitter, this might have been a steal in the 5th round.

 

Not sure I can agree with this. Is it really just a feeling? Or maybe the fact that his minor league numbers have been sick for two years now and everyone has been talking about him that whole time, eagerly anticipating his call up?

[Barkerfan23]

Not sure I can agree with this. Is it really just a feeling? Or maybe the fact that his minor league numbers have been sick for two years now and everyone has been talking about him that whole time, eagerly anticipating his call up?

 

Just a feeling, internal instinct, not an expert opinion at all. Premonition.

[The Iceman]

It feels like Toronto must place immense value on Luciano in order to do what they’re doing. And they’ve already displayed to KC that they’re willing to carry him on the 25-man. Seems like there should be a deal to be made: KC would be motivated to get something instead of nothing, and Toronto would be motivated to let what they clearly see as a very valuable asset develop properly at the cost of an asset of lesser value. I wonder which of two things is closer to true: KC is stubbornly refusing to talk and is turning down an asset out of principle, or Atkins prefers to keep Luciano on the 25-man than give up a lesser piece to move him to the minors.

 

I think this is Shatkins knew that they reached for a high upside guy. Thought that they were smarter than everyone else. Thought he would hold his own in low leverage situations and lost a valuable asset in Rosen while doing so. They f#cked up and are living with the consequences of this.

[Deadpool]

I think this is Shatkins knew that they reached for a high upside guy. Thought that they were smarter than everyone else. Thought he would hold his own in low leverage situations and lost a valuable asset in Rosen while doing so. They f#cked up and are living with the consequences of this.

 

... Who in the f*** is Rosen? Do you mean Bergen? He's produced exactly 0 WAR in 18 games, has a FIP of 4.26 (and an ERA of 4.24) and has managed to land himself on the IL. Sure he's having a better season than Elvis this year, but he's not lighting the world on fire, and he's 25 already.

[metafour]

... Who in the f*** is Rosen? Do you mean Bergen? He's produced exactly 0 WAR in 18 games, has a FIP of 4.26 (and an ERA of 4.24) and has managed to land himself on the IL. Sure he's having a better season than Elvis this year, but he's not lighting the world on fire, and he's 25 already.

 

The Iceman must really think he is smarter than everyone else. Rosen? Josh Rosen? Who?

 

LMFAO.

[Dick_Pole]

... Who in the f*** is Rosen? Do you mean Bergen? He's produced exactly 0 WAR in 18 games, has a FIP of 4.26 (and an ERA of 4.24) and has managed to land himself on the IL. Sure he's having a better season than Elvis this year, but he's not lighting the world on fire, and he's 25 already.

 

Not only that but losing Bergen and keeping Luciano are two completely different decision points. The former being somewhat out of the team's control. I don't understand the logic behind whining about this.

 

The Jays have what...about 19 players actually deserving an MLB roster spot? Jettisoning Luciano for some other s***** player doesn't make much sense to me. Jettisoning Luciano for Keuchel makes sense to me. But with the way this front office has worked this year I don't think this is a very likely scenario.

[Brownie19]

Vladdie now has 4 errors on the season. Thats puts him at about 28 to 30 errors for a whole year.

 

I guess thats trade-off we're gonna have to live with

 

You sure love your simplistic, old school stats to judge performance eh? HRs, RBIs and errors.

[tbad]

SS F. Galvis S

3B V. Guerrero Jr. R

1B Justin Smoak S

DH Rowdy Tellez L

CF R. Grichuk R

2B Cavan Biggio L

RF B. Drury R

LF L. Gurriel R

C Danny Jansen R

[DigitalRock]

SS F. Galvis S

3B V. Guerrero Jr. R

1B Justin Smoak S

DH Rowdy Tellez L

CF R. Grichuk R

2B Cavan Biggio L

RF B. Drury R

LF L. Gurriel R

C Danny Jansen R

 

I guess the Gurriel in the outfield experiment continues at the MLB level. We might have the worst outfield in baseball. PS: Why can't I stay logged in on this friggin board?

[tbad]

His UZR/150 is at -6.9 (though horrifically small sample size). You're looking at a slightly below average MLB 3B. That's not terrible for ANY 20 year old, much less one with Vladdy's bat. I'd rate him as better than expected, and perfectly cromulent when the whole package is considered.

 

They say use at least 3 years of UZR data before drawing conclusions. You're using 1 month. With that said he's look pretty good to me at 3B but I haven't seen most of it.

[Terminator]

Flurry of moves being made today. Good on Atkins for recognizing how s*** the roster looked and making the changes to improve it.