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Rule 5 Draft thread...

TheHurl

By TheHurl
in Toronto Blue Jays Talk

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BTS GOAT

BTS

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Defend protecting tulo and solarte over them

 

The 40-man is currently at 39 players. Presumably they'll make at least a couple of additions via free agency. Obviously they made the determination that they have no interest in Romano and Bergen on the 40-man. We saw them use one of the spots those two would have taken up on Luciano, and we'll surely see the other taken by someone else in the near future. What's gained by adding two guys for a few weeks when you know you're going to be DFA'ing them?

BTS GOAT

BTS

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Defend protecting Pompey and urena over the 2 we lost

 

I think it's pretty easy to defend selecting Pompey and Urena over Romano and Bergen. You just have to believe that neither pitcher is an MLB-calibre arm, which the team pretty clearly believes.

Maico450 College Ball

Maico450

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Given how limited we are at SS, Urena was kind of a no brainer. Pompey is a little more questionable.

 

After what happened this year I assumed Pompey was going to be traded or released. Management must still like him enough to give him another chance.

Key22 Draft Eligible

Key22

Verified Member
Posted
Posted (edited)

I may be wrong but what i think Wamco is driving at is that had we released Tulo in October then we could have protected 1 extra player - Romano or Bergen - and thus we would have an extra player. Obviously other teams valued these guys so they must have "trade value" at the very least.

 

By keeping Tulo we lost one protection slot - and we wind up releasing him anyway but then we lost one of these two players on top. I think this is what he means by poor asset management - that we lost a guy when we didn't need to lose a guy. Ditto for Solarte.

 

And he makes the other point that with a team like Toronto that is in such dire need of pitching - it's tough to give up pitchers who may in fact find something- that third pitch or whatever - and raise their game enough to be an effective loogy or something.

 

Plus - if I were the GM why risk looking stupid? If one of those two guys has a Biagini first year and guys on our roster stink it up then people will question your GM skills. And if you have decided that 2019 is a complete write-off and you have no chance to win - and you take Luciano - then wouldn't it make sense to keep Bergen and Romano and trade Giles and Tepera while you can get a haul of prospects for them. Release Morales and Trade Martin - create more Rule 5 space on top.

 

I say this a lot but if you are going to do a rebuild do it all the way - don't do BS half measures because you want to finish 3rd or 4th with 75 wins. If you are going to lose and you're going to be 15 games+ out of a playoff spot - then trade everyone over the age of 28 and finish last - I would far rather the first or second overall draft pick than 13-18.

 

I will be very sad to see Smoak, Pillar, Morales, Martin, on the opening day roster.

Edited by Key22
BTS GOAT

BTS

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
I may be wrong but what i think Wamco is driving at is that had we released Tulo in October then we could have protected 1 extra player - Romano or Bergen - and this we would have an extra player. Obviously other teams valued these guys so they must have value. And even if Jays management does hold them in high regard they could have used them as part of a trade.

 

By keeping Tulo - we wind up releasing him anyway but then we lost one of these two on top. I think this is what he means by poor asset management - that we lost a guy when we didn't need to lose a guy. Ditto for Solarte.

 

And he makes the other point that with a team that is such in dire need for pitching - it's tough to give up pitchers who may in fact find something- that third pitch or whatever and raise their game enough to be an effective loogy or something.

 

Plus - if I were the GM why risk looking stupid? If one of those two guys has a Biagini first year and guys on our roster stink it up people will question your GM skills. And if you have decided that 2019 is a complete write-off and you have no chance to win - and you take Luciano - then wouldn't it make sense to keep Bergen and Romano and trade Giles and Tepera while you can get a haul of prospects for them. Release Morales and Trade Martin - create more Rule 5 space on top.

 

I say this a lot but if you are going to do a rebuild do it all the way - don't do BS half measures because you want to finish 3rd or 4th with 75 wins. If you are going to lose and you're going to be 15 games+ out of a playoff spot - then trade everyone over the age of 28 and finish last - I would far rather the first or second overall draft pick than 13-18.

 

I will be very sad to see Smoak, Pillar, Morales, Martin, on the opening day roster.

 

If either of those guys had trade value they would have been traded by now.

 

And I understand his point, I just don't think it makes any sense. There's currently 1 spot open on the 40-man. So the team has 39 guys they like more than Romano/Bergen. As soon as they make one more acquisition, which is going to happen, someone is getting punted off the 40-man. Obviously in a case where they had added Romano or Bergen, they'd be be the first to go when a 40-man spot was necessary.

 

I still think we see 2-3 guys on the current 40 get DFA'd before April. The team is going to dip into free agency for a few players. There was clearly no chance in Shatkins' eyes that Romano or Bergen were making it through the offseason on the 40, whether they were lost in the Rule V or via a DFA between now and April.

 

It all makes sense if you just assume that the team thinks Bergen and Romano suck. Bergen's numbers actually look good, but I can't believe the bellyaching over Romano. This guy was just a league-average pitcher in AA at 25. He's the kind of fungible replacement-level arm you can find on the scrap heap at will.

Abomination Buffalo Bisons

Abomination

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I may be wrong but what i think Wamco is driving at is that had we released Tulo in October then we could have protected 1 extra player - Romano or Bergen - and this we would have an extra player. Obviously other teams valued these guys so they must have value. And even if Jays management does hold them in high regard they could have used them as part of a trade.

 

By keeping Tulo - we wind up releasing him anyway but then we lost one of these two on top. I think this is what he means by poor asset management - that we lost a guy when we didn't need to lose a guy. Ditto for Solarte.

 

And he makes the other point that with a team that is such in dire need for pitching - it's tough to give up pitchers who may in fact find something- that third pitch or whatever and raise their game enough to be an effective loogy or something.

 

Plus - if I were the GM why risk looking stupid? If one of those two guys has a Biagini first year and guys on our roster stink it up people will question your GM skills. And if you have decided that 2019 is a complete write-off and you have no chance to win - and you take Luciano - then wouldn't it make sense to keep Bergen and Romano and trade Giles and Tepera while you can get a haul of prospects for them. Release Morales and Trade Martin - create more Rule 5 space on top.

 

I say this a lot but if you are going to do a rebuild do it all the way - don't do BS half measures because you want to finish 3rd or 4th with 75 wins. If you are going to lose and you're going to be 15 games+ out of a playoff spot - then trade everyone over the age of 28 and finish last - I would far rather the first or second overall draft pick than 13-18.

 

I will be very sad to see Smoak, Pillar, Morales, Martin, on the opening day roster.

 

We were going to need the roster spots regardless. If we had protected them, we very likely would have had to try to pass them back off anyway and they would have then been claimed. I doubt in the grand scheme of things it makes any difference, except this way if they don't stick with their teams all year we get them back.

Key22 Draft Eligible

Key22

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Well let's trust in the Shatkins - they have done a good job overall in my view - my major change would have been to move Donaldson last offseason given what we now know we would have received from the Cardinals - and it should have been quite obvious the team was not remotely good enough to compete with the big two in the division.

 

But you never know how much ownership gets involved in terms of PR.

 

Everyone whines over Morales but it seems to me tough to generate a lot of WAR from a DH and his offensive numbers in terms of OPS and OPS+ a 0.8 WAR given his atrocious start is at least not a black hole and his contract just wasn't big enough to whinge about.

 

Martin and Tulo are on AA.

 

The payroll in 2021 with all these guys off the books and with a top 6 or better farm system and huge payroll reserves "should" put us in an really nice position. Sign Vlad to a 16 year $224 million contract now - :)

wamco Draft Eligible

wamco

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Just making sure to quote you so he can see your response.

 

Oh don’t worry Crylian will never block me. She is obsessed with me

The Iceman College Ball

The Iceman

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Given how limited we are at SS, Urena was kind of a no brainer. Pompey is a little more questionable.

 

Unless Pillar is being shopped and maybe...just maybe the team wants to see Pompey get a crack in CF.

Jimcanuck Buffalo Bisons

Jimcanuck

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Unless Pillar is being shopped and maybe...just maybe the team wants to see Pompey get a crack in CF.

 

One of Pompey or Alford should do well enough in Buffalo in the 1st half to get CF reps. If both suck, f*** it

saskjayfan Dunedin Blue Jays

saskjayfan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Caught me. I often lie on the internet about not knowing things.

 

my parents, who are in their 70s and get all their Jays news from reading the paper and watching the blue jays on TV, know that Romano is Canadian.

BTS GOAT

BTS

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
my parents, who are in their 70s and get all their Jays news from reading the paper and watching the blue jays on TV, know that Romano is Canadian.

 

I’m not sure what to tell you man. I saw last night that he was Canadian and it surprised me. Maybe I’d read it before and then forgot because I didn’t give a s***?

BigBounceyBlueBalls FCL Blue Jays

BigBounceyBlueBalls

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

ok even I Knew Romano ... Beans as his friends call him was Canadian! Lol

 

BTS is DUMB! Lol

 

But really how can a team trade a player that is Technically not theirs yet even ?

Does this not circumvent they True Nature of the Rule 5 Draft as shouldnt that player be handled the same as a First year drafted player and non tradeable as you not another team where to keep the player recieved on your major league roster or he was to be returned to his original club !

 

As this really if allowed I could see ways one could really abuse this espically money flush

Or rebuilding teams get others to make your selections and then pay them for that player

Interesting one could field a whole rule 5 team

For as low as what 25-30 million cost in year one and net 25 players if held one year

Hmmmmmm interesting!

 

What Kind of Rule 5 team could one have

Had or made this year ?

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