Blue Jays Acquire RHP Trent Thornton

[glory]

Everyone should remember that we traded JB Woodman for Diaz. Maybe he's not as valuable in trade as we think.

 

He’s coming off a much better season offensively and defensively now than he did a year ago. This move also doesn’t even fix the 40 man roster glut.

 

Thornton might end up being good but I don’t think their values were anywhere close to each other right now. That might change a year from now of course.

[TheHurl]

He’s coming off a much better season offensively and defensively now than he did a year ago. This move also doesn’t even fix the 40 man roster glut.

 

 

How does it not fix it? Thornton is not on the 40 man.

 

To be clear I'm talking about Diaz's actual trade value. There may be something there we don't know. He's put up 4.5 fWAR in 3 partial seasons and he's been trade for 2 non prospects. Just trying to make sense of it.

 

 

I find it funny how not one person has said "this must mean that they think Tulo will be healthy"

[Laika]

This was after he put up a replacement level season, not after a league average one where he can play a passable shortstop.

 

I'm very puzzled by this deal, it seems that even if they completely love Thornton that they should have been able to get more added to that deal. On the surface he's a low walks old starter who potentially discovered some strikeout ability this season, but not enough to blow you away given the age/level, and has a very weird delivery which I honestly don't really care about unless that's a detriment to his health for whatever reason.

 

It's a delivery that does not seem to be on time to me. Lots of elbows flying around. Kind of like Osuna. Probably looking at an elevated injury risk.

 

[glory]

How does it not fix it? Thornton is not on the 40 man

 

He has to be added on according to Twitter. Can’t imagine they’d risk him going through the Rule 5.

 

If he doesn’t have to be added on, then that’s one benefit.

[The Cats Ass]

Stat scouting tells me he's got the best k/bb ratio in AAA last season out of the qualified starters. That number also improves if you remove his first 3 starts of the season.

[TheHurl]

He has to be added on according to Twitter. Can’t imagine they’d risk him going through the Rule 5.

 

If he doesn’t have to be added on, then that’s one benefit.

 

I just don't see them making this deal if they don't think he can get through (like when they added Forrest Wall, they did it because they didn't feel they needed to add him...teams seem to know this stuff about other teams). Or there is a lot of wheeling and dealing going on this is to protect another player they don't want to lose. I think it's a bad looking deal regardless but having to add him to the 40 would make it that much worse (unless they truly believe he's a bullpen star and there were many teams pursuing him)

[Brownie19]

inverted W

[Grant77]

I just don't see them making this deal if they don't think he can get through (like when they added Forrest Wall, they did it because they didn't feel they needed to add him...teams seem to know this stuff about other teams). Or there is a lot of wheeling and dealing going on this is to protect another player they don't want to lose. I think it's a bad looking deal regardless but having to add him to the 40 would make it that much worse (unless they truly believe he's a bullpen star and there were many teams pursuing him)

 

[metafour]

inverted W

 

The inverted W isn't even a thing anymore.

[TheHurl]

https://mobile.twitter.com/bnicholsonsmith/status/1063841049309847558

 

Makes no sense to me when they are still expected to lose a player or two in the Rule 5.

[Kevin9394]

https://therunnersports.com/afl-astros-2018-rotation-starter-pack-trent-thornton-ace-of-club/

 

The report makes me feel a little bit better~~

[Laika]

Ooooooooo maybe they have Thornton pegged for a post-Opener role.

 

That would seem to be a more optimal use for him.

 

If you look at the qualified AAA SP leaders over the last few years with K-BB% in his talent bucket (over 17%) you don't really see a lot of SP success stories. Dan Straily and Jharel Cotton excited people for a bit but they didn't produce much. You do see a lot of Rays post-Opener guys though: Chirinos, Yarbrough, Pruitt... and the Rays are getting a way better ROI by using this type of talent in a non-traditional way.

[glory]

I just don't see them making this deal if they don't think he can get through (like when they added Forrest Wall, they did it because they didn't feel they needed to add him...teams seem to know this stuff about other teams). Or there is a lot of wheeling and dealing going on this is to protect another player they don't want to lose. I think it's a bad looking deal regardless but having to add him to the 40 would make it that much worse (unless they truly believe he's a bullpen star and there were many teams pursuing him)

 

Wall is in AA and wasn’t that good there. He seems like a safe guy to not protect. Pitchers that are big league ready (Thornton, Waguespack, etc) seem more likely to be taken. I think they’ll protect Thornton.

 

What this tells me is Urena is probably going to end up the utility infielder. No spot for him in AAA and now a spot opens up in the majors.

[Boxcar]

 

Discuss

 

This seems like a pretty f***ing stupid trade. We need Diaz right now.

[Boxcar]

Everyone should remember that we traded JB Woodman for Diaz. Maybe he's not as valuable in trade as we think.

 

I don't see what difference that makes. He was a solid performer, and we have tangible evidence of this. A league average SS with 4 years of control should net you a lot more than some extremely s***** prospect.

[Laika]

I don't see what difference that makes. He was a solid performer, and we have tangible evidence of this. A league average SS with 4 years of control should net you a lot more than some extremely s***** prospect.

 

I don't even really see any warts on Diaz.

 

- At least close to an average defensive SS

- Contact rate is good

- Career walk rate is decent

- Power returned in 2018

- Publicly available projections = his 2018 performance

- 28 years old

- Four years of control

 

I guess his BsR sucks and he is notably not athletic or toolsy, so he is probably maxed out production-wise and I guess you could argue that there is downside risk.

 

Blargh.

[glory]

We went from not caring if Tulo plays again to hoping to god he’s healthy because Gurriel probably isn’t a SS and Urena can’t defend anywhere.

[Laika]

We went from not caring if Tulo plays again to hoping to god he’s healthy because Gurriel probably isn’t a SS and Urena can’t defend anywhere.

 

Aha - there's the angle for Toronto. 2019 is Tulo's Last Chance.

[Orgfiller]

This is what he looks like btw:

 

That's from one of his outings at the AFL, featuring a cameo by a certain highly rated Jays prospect.

 

Edit:

even more recent outing, this time with the aforementioned big bodied prospect leading off

[BTS]

I don't like this if it means that the team is going to be relying on Gurriel as an everyday guy. But I feel like I'm lower on Diaz than everyone else. League average bat, but he's 28 and DRS has hated his SS defense the last two years, and he's already a negative on the bases. I bet he gets non-tendered before his arb years are up.

[Laika]

This is what he looks like btw:

 

That's from one of his outings at the AFL, featuring a cameo by a certain highly rated Jays prospect.

 

Edit:

even more recent outing, this time with the aforementioned big bodied prospect leading off

 

I believe this is the guy Guerrero hit the 117 mph double off of

[z3r0s]

I'm with you on Diaz BTS. I don't like the bat and the defense doesn't pass the eye test (backed up by UZR and DRS). Doesn't seem like the type to age gracefully, although that isn't based on anything.

 

The trade doesn't seem like a big win for us to me, but everyone saying we should have got more is assuming he had value elsewhere which may or may not be true. You also can't base a trade complete on current values for players. If you think Trent is going to increase in value while Diaz is not, that trade may not be available in the future.

 

Right now I see this as a big 'Meh'. I'll trust the FO b/c they've given me no reason not too.

[DigitalRock]

Doesn't seem like much of a return, but who knows.

[glory]

https://therunnersports.com/afl-astros-2018-rotation-starter-pack-trent-thornton-ace-of-club/

 

The report makes me feel a little bit better~~

 

Atkins going full on TrackMan.

[jaysguy44]

This seems like a pretty f***ing stupid trade. We need Diaz right now.

 

No we don't, this team isn't going to be any good next year

[Captain Adama]

Losing Diaz in the grand scheme of things might not be a huge deal in terms of talent, but this seems like really poor asset management from a depth perspective.

 

I guess the Jays are planning to use Thornton next year like the Rays used Yarbrough.

[Angrioter]

Diaz suck....

 

Biagini 2.0 is a decent return

[Dr. Dinger]

We went from not caring if Tulo plays again to hoping to god he’s healthy because Gurriel probably isn’t a SS and Urena can’t defend anywhere.

 

This all seems based on an assumption that 2019 is relevant. This season is a write-off. Tulo and Gurriel are by no means excellent options, but Bichette isn’t far off and next season is looking more and more like the bottom-out year of a rebuild. I don’t like this trade from a value perspective but I also don’t think Diaz is anyone’s idea of a core player. Houston has clearly acquired him to be a utility infielder and if any other team valued him more highly than that, they would have been the high bidder.

[glory]

Losing Diaz in the grand scheme of things might not be a huge deal in terms of talent, but this seems like really poor asset management from a depth perspective.

 

I think that's my stance on this deal. Don't mind trading Diaz but value wise it looks like the Jays got less than they should have, and are left with some questionable infield options because of it.

[Laika]

The MLB Pipeline report on Thornton is relatively optimistic, but aligns with the other info in this thread.

 

Scouting grades: Fastball: 60 | Curveball: 55 | Slider: 55 | Changeup: 45 | Control: 55 | Overall: 45

 

Though Thornton's stuff took a downturn during his junior season at North Carolina, the Astros believed in his previous track record enough to take him in the fifth round of the 2015 Draft. He pitched well in his first two years as a pro, then struggled at the upper levels of the system in 2017. He has fared better and shown crisper stuff while repeating Triple-A this season.

 

Thornton has added a couple ticks of velocity to his fastball in 2018, working at 93-95 mph and topping out at 97 with riding action. He has an interesting array of secondary pitches, including a curveball with some power and depth and an improved slider that he can turn into a true cutter. He needs to refine and trust his changeup more to find success against left-handers, however.

 

Thornton has a funky delivery but it gives him deception and doesn't prevent him from filling the strike zone. With solid stuff and strike-throwing ability, he has the ingredients to become at least a No. 4 starter. But he often gets hit harder than he should, so his long-term role may be as a multi-inning reliever.