Jays announce Charlie Montoyo as manager

[Pendleton]

I hope it stays that way. I don't mind the opener when you're starting a Gaviglio or Jason Vargas or something, but I hope it doesn't progress to the point where 50% (or more) of games are started by an opener, and essentially bullpen games. I don't really think it's ideal for baseball to have aces, and then a bunch of 2-3 inning guys.

 

I personally have always had a lot of respect for those pitchers who don't have great "stuff" but are able to hit their spots well enough to grind out 200 fairly consistent innings per year...wouldn't want to see those types start to evaporate. I'm fine with bullpen days replacing the shitballers, but beyond that I'm not sure I like the idea.

[Brownie19]

I personally have always had a lot of respect for those pitchers who don't have great "stuff" but are able to hit their spots well enough to grind out 200 fairly consistent innings per year...wouldn't want to see those types start to evaporate. I'm fine with bullpen days replacing the shitballers, but beyond that I'm not sure I like the idea.

 

Those types of pitchers stopped throwing 200 innings years ago. But - I do hear what you're saying. The opener actually gives that type of pitcher an opportunity to be more effective and throw more innings - so that role won't disappear - he just starts the 2nd inning instead of the 1st.

 

Thank god we're now allowing FO and coaching staffs to use their brains instead of following unwritten rules and simply following tradition. What a concept.

[Abomination]

When do teams have to release their starting pitchers and lineups? Could we soon see team counter the opener by moving platoon guy up to the top of the order or say move their 2nd best hitter from the 1st or 2nd spot, down to the 4th spot to avoid the opener?

 

I think you'll see more of an emphasis on guys without significant platoon splits higher in the order. Benches are so thin you can't really spare people for a 1st inning matchup on offense.

[BTS]

I personally have always had a lot of respect for those pitchers who don't have great "stuff" but are able to hit their spots well enough to grind out 200 fairly consistent innings per year...wouldn't want to see those types start to evaporate. I'm fine with bullpen days replacing the shitballers, but beyond that I'm not sure I like the idea.

 

Mark Buehrle was a gem. I hope we still have workhorses like Buehrle going forward.

[Boxcar]

I get that the opener makes sense. But I don't like it. Mostly as a matter of convenience/tradition. I like being able to scan pitching matchups for the next few games to see what games interest me. I really hope it doesn't become the norm to see a bunch of Ryan Tepera vs. Matt Albers pitching matchups when I look at the probable starters.

 

Yeah, I agree. It's like "the trap" in hockey. Winning strategy but makes for boring af hockey. I like the way the Rays think so progressively but f*** them for this trend.

[Spanky99]

When do teams have to release their starting pitchers and lineups? Could we soon see team counter the opener by moving platoon guy up to the top of the order or say move their 2nd best hitter from the 1st or 2nd spot, down to the 4th spot to avoid the opener?

 

Prior to first pitch.

[G-Snarls]

The benefits of the Opener are so patently obvious that it is basically ORGANIZATIONAL NEGLIGENCE to not use the strategy, unless you happen to be overflowing with rotational riches.

 

Dodgers and Astros are exempt

[G-Snarls]

Mark Buehrle was a gem. I hope we still have workhorses like Buehrle going forward.

 

They don't make em like that anymore

 

Most of these young and upcoming aces aren't likely to throw more than 90-100 pitches a game and therefore 170-180 innings a season

[Brownie19]

They don't make em like that anymore

 

Most of these young and upcoming aces aren't likely to throw more than 90-100 pitches a game and therefore 170-180 innings a season

 

I'll respectably disagree. Cole, Severino, Nola, Marquez, Clevinger, Freeland, Wheeler, Foltynewicz, Taillon and Berrios all threw over 180 inning last year.

 

But you're right - they don't make guys like Buehrle anymore. They don't make 4-5 K/9 starters who throw 200+ innings...

[Jimcanuck]

Last year I suggested teams should relook at 4 man rotations, with shorter outings. Minimize # of times through the order. More frequent starts may result in more effective pitching. Total IP still around the same as current with a 5 man rotation. 80-90 pitches per start less than 100+ at present, less injury risk?

 

Jays 4 man

 

Stroman

Sanchez (?)

Borucki

Happ (?)

 

Easier to find a BP multi innings guy than a starter.

[Dick_Pole]

I hope they don't extend the 25-man roster, or just more of this stuff is going to happen. If you want to play around like this to get an edge, then you're going to have to do it with the constraint of a 25-man roster (and blow through options of your palatable MiLB players).

 

I assume they have some stats guys that will find the sweet balance between using an opener or not. Yes, I know, a run in the 1st is the same as a run in the 9th, but it really isn't. The logic behind saving your best BP arms for last makes sense. If you give up a run in the first, you have 27 or 24 outs to work with to retaliate. If you give up a run in the 9th you have 3 or 0 outs to work with. Using your best BP arms in the first inning every game is a really dumb idea. There's a balance between that and Showalter's Ubaldo over Britton stance.

[BTS]

I hope they don't extend the 25-man roster, or just more of this stuff is going to happen. If you want to play around like this to get an edge, then you're going to have to do it with the constraint of a 25-man roster (and blow through options of your palatable MiLB players).

 

I assume they have some stats guys that will find the sweet balance between using an opener or not. Yes, I know, a run in the 1st is the same as a run in the 9th, but it really isn't. The logic behind saving your best BP arms for last makes sense. If you give up a run in the first, you have 27 or 24 outs to work with to retaliate. If you give up a run in the 9th you have 3 or 0 outs to work with. Using your best BP arms in the first inning every game is a really dumb idea. There's a balance between that and Showalter's Ubaldo over Britton stance.

 

I really hope they don't expand the rosters. 7-8 arms in the pen is more than enough. September baseball already sucks a big back of dicks because the rosters are enormous.

[Jimcanuck]

Trouble with the opener IMO is you are relying on two guys to bring their good stuff into the game, whereas with the traditional starter approach you are relying on one. A fair bit more risk of a pitcher getting hammered with the opener approach.

[Dick_Pole]

Trouble with the opener IMO is you are relying on two guys to bring their good stuff into the game, whereas with the traditional starter approach you are relying on one. A fair bit more risk of a pitcher getting hammered with the opener approach.

 

I don't find this to be a risk any more than having to hope that Ken Giles brings it in the 9th or else I'll have to keep away from the salty Houston trolls on Twitter for a few hours. I do dislike its use for the reasons I already stated though.

[THANOS]

We nabbed Dave Hudgens as our Bench Coach! The hitting coach of the Astros is a fantastic grab imo

[P2F]

We nabbed Dave Hudgens as our Bench Coach! The hitting coach of the Astros is a fantastic grab imo

 

Yeah, this can only mean good things, though I liked Hale.

 

[THANOS]

Yeah, this can only mean good things, though I liked Hale.

 

 

I liked him too. Seemed like a nice day clubhouse guy. Hudgens could be amazing though.

[baubau]

 

I like him already!

[glory]

Definitely good news since the Astros org is big on launch angle which Shatkins definitely likes. Although he's bench coach and not hitting coach?

[Boxcar]

Coaches!!! Yay!!!

[Ray]

Definitely good news since the Astros org is big on launch angle which Shatkins definitely likes. Although he's bench coach and not hitting coach?

 

They probably want to fill the coaching staff with as many good guys as possible, regardless of position. They might already have another hitting coach in mind, but I’m sure Hudgens will have input on team hitting.

[TheHurl]

I hope they don't extend the 25-man roster, or just more of this stuff is going to happen. If you want to play around like this to get an edge, then you're going to have to do it with the constraint of a 25-man roster (and blow through options of your palatable MiLB players).

 

I assume they have some stats guys that will find the sweet balance between using an opener or not. Yes, I know, a run in the 1st is the same as a run in the 9th, but it really isn't. The logic behind saving your best BP arms for last makes sense. If you give up a run in the first, you have 27 or 24 outs to work with to retaliate. If you give up a run in the 9th you have 3 or 0 outs to work with. Using your best BP arms in the first inning every game is a really dumb idea. There's a balance between that and Showalter's Ubaldo over Britton stance.

 

I agree that you don't use your best reliever as an opener. You probably use the one that struggles the most with making in game adjustments. It's so much more than that though. You usually believe your closer is going to any batters they face. The opener you are pretty much picking who they are facing. They are going in with a set game plan that has been worked on as well.

 

As for whoever was talking about days rest, the Rays discussed having 9 pitchers which never faced more than 9 batters could easily go on 2 days rest (or 50+ games a year). If they can find a way to use just 11 hitters (or find a way where 2 hitters can pitch) they are really going to mess up traditional thinking.

[TheHurl]

Didn't like Hudgens in High School Musical, but loved the home video work.

[TheHurl]

I really hope they don't expand the rosters. 7-8 arms in the pen is more than enough. September baseball already sucks a big back of dicks because the rosters are enormous.

 

I'd like to see them go 27 until April 30th when pitchers aren't quiet up to strength. Then expand to 40 in September but only 25 on the lineup card. You'd still have lots of maneuvers to make as you wouldn't put the other 4 starters on the lineup.

[Abomination]

I'd like to see them go 27 until April 30th when pitchers aren't quiet up to strength. Then expand to 40 in September but only 25 on the lineup card. You'd still have lots of maneuvers to make as you wouldn't put the other 4 starters on the lineup.

 

It would only be the SP who wouldn't be quite up to strength (maybe), and most aren't going deep enough for it to matter now anyway. I'd be fine the September bit if you can't replace any pitcher who (say) throws more than 50 pitches for at least four days.

[wilko]

I think Buck would prefer to be the colour guy, but he might be falling in love with his HR calls. Let's hope SN finds a solid play by play guy.

 

Regarding the Leafs, I'll never understand why Joe Bowen was never given the full time reins for TV.

 

[Pendleton]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-manager-charlie-montoyo-profile/

 

Lengthy profile on our new skipper

[Carlos Danger]

So I was listening to Shapiro the other day. I am now convinced Gibbons was asked to leave (fired), but they let him save face by saying he is not interested in a re-build etc.

 

Basically, Shapiro said, there was nothing wrong with the Clubhouse culture and team culture so to speak. However, if we want to win the AL East it has to be much better and a different mindset and that is what Montoyo brings. In plain English, Gibby was average, they think that Montoyo can be exceptional.

 

Gibby was fired, plain and simple.

[Boxcar]

That's a shame. I don't think there was anything wrong with Gibby at all. I will miss him quite a bit.

[THANOS]

That's a shame. I don't think there was anything wrong with Gibby at all. I will miss him quite a bit.

 

Maybe they felt he was too laid back and wanted someone more hands on with development? :S