Happ traded to NYY for Brandon Drury and Billy McKinney

[GreekFatAss]

9 years of control over position players that aren't trash is a pretty decent return on a pending UFA that isn't helping your team get to the playoffs.

 

Neither are likely to be stars, but if you squint you can see a few WAR combined over the next few seasons.

 

But 9 years of control of garbage is hardly valuable.

[TheRustler]

But 9 years of control of garbage is hardly valuable.

 

They’re not garbage, that’s ridiculous. They’re just not very exciting whatsoever.

 

The return is just meh, it probably hurts more because Happ was basically our top realistic trade piece, so unless a huge unexpected move happens we aren’t going to walk away from this deadline with any sexy new pieces.

 

Jays have had horrible luck with injuries and Osuna’s debacle.

[Jonn]

9 years of control over position players that aren't trash is a pretty decent return on a pending UFA that isn't helping your team get to the playoffs.

 

Neither are likely to be stars, but if you squint you can see a few WAR combined over the next few seasons.

 

I have never seen someone add up years of control like that. Very odd.

[John_Havok]

But 9 years of control of garbage is hardly valuable.

 

Even if Drury and McKinney end up being backups that provide .5 WAR each for 2 seasons and then fade away.... that's better than having Happ for 2.5 months in a non playoff year.

[John_Havok]

I have never seen someone add up years of control like that. Very odd.

 

The word "potential" should have preceded years of control. But it makes sense.

[Jimcanuck]

It’s still pretty much just Pillar, Smoak, and Vlad that a contending team would want starting in 2019, and a bunch of potentially good players you’d want in a reserve role until/unless they establish themselves (Gurriel, Drury, Grichuk, Diaz, Hernandez etc...

 

Weird comment to make.

 

Scratch Pillar. He's not a starter on a contending team, not anymore.

[John_Havok]

Scratch Pillar. He's not a starter on a contending team, not anymore.

 

That's not entirely true. A guy hitting 9th with GG defense in CF can play on a contender.

 

Though as I consider what you posted, i think you mean going forward that he won't be GG calibre D in CF. That's reasonable

[BTS]

Scratch Pillar. He's not a starter on a contending team, not anymore.

 

He’s still something like a 2-win player over a full season. He’d get 500-600 PA as one of the worst starters on a good team and it wouldn’t be an issue. Unless the defense slips a bit, which could happen at any point.

[tercet]

It’s still pretty much just Pillar, Smoak, and Vlad that a contending team would want starting in 2019, and a bunch of potentially good players you’d want in a reserve role until/unless they establish themselves (Gurriel, Drury, Grichuk, Diaz, Hernandez etc...

 

Weird comment to make.

 

Grichuk is aite bro, cmon hes good for 2~ war.

[BTS]

Grichuk is aite bro, cmon hes good for 2~ war.

 

TBH I didn’t realuze his numbers were back to being respectable until now

[Jimcanuck]

That's not entirely true. A guy hitting 9th with GG defense in CF can play on a contender.

 

Though as I consider what you posted, i think you mean going forward that he won't be GG calibre D in CF. That's reasonable

 

GG calibre? He's near middle of the pack among CF in defensive metrics....

[GreekFatAss]

The problem is we will never know what was on the table from others to properly judge it.

[BTS]

Might put Grichuk in there. But ya I would agree, a contending team might not see much in our position players. But maybe he was just talking overall talent + years of control in the system. Not necessarily contending maybe.

 

We have like 2 or 3 options at each position now. Maybe that's what he was going for.

 

That’s one thing he has done: we shouldn’t have any black holes on the 25-man, at least to start next year. There’s a lot of depth, as far as above-replacement level talent goes. The issue is the lack of elite talent.

[John_Havok]

The problem is we will never know what was on the table from others to properly judge it.

 

You can bet it wasn't much. The market for rentals just isn't what it used to be. I think people's frustrations with the return on this trade stems from 2 things....

 

1. The fact that Happ was the Jays best trade chip, which speaks volumes about how the season is going.

 

2. Unrealistic expectations.

 

Advanced metrics have pretty much kiboshed the rental return market recently. Even the return the Orioles got for Machado would be considered garbage not too long ago.

[Boxcar]

TBH I didn’t realuze his numbers were back to being respectable until now

 

Yeah that and him getting CF has been pretty nice from a fantasy perspective, so I've been paying attention

[Boxcar]

You can bet it wasn't much. The market for rentals just isn't what it used to be. I think people's frustrations with the return on this trade stems from 2 things....

 

1. The fact that Happ was the Jays best trade chip, which speaks volumes about how the season is going.

 

2. Unrealistic expectations.

 

Advanced metrics have pretty much kiboshed the rental return market recently. Even the return the Orioles got for Machado would be considered garbage not too long ago.

 

I don't really think the Jays gave up substantially more when they acquired Price, unless I'm misremembering how highly thought of Dan 3:16 was at the time

[Orgfiller]

I don't really think the Jays gave up substantially more when they acquired Price, unless I'm misremembering how highly thought of Dan 3:16 was at the time

 

Norris was a 22 year old top prospect type who had a history of dominance in the minors. Matt Boyd was basically Borucki but with better numbers in AAA. It was a much more valuable package.

 

But also, it was David Price.

[Boxcar]

Norris was a 22 year old top prospect type who had a history of dominance in the minors. Matt Boyd was basically Borucki but with better numbers in AAA. It was a much more valuable package.

 

That would make sense since Price was a much better pitcher. Still, turned out that Norris busted and Boyd is the only piece from that deal that's worth anything.

[5ToolPhenom]

I'm quite happy with the return. It's always easy to be excited by young prospects, but Drury is a proven talent who's put up good numbers when he's healthy. You've gotta like the years of control. Mckinnney is kinda meh but there might be a little potential.

[Boxcar]

Whoa, cool. I didn't realize Happ was born in Peru.

[King]

Just to add on the the discussion, Drury is projected to be replacement level this year

 

I'm going out on a limb here but I'm guessing the Jays are projecting him to be better than those projections.

[Abomination]

I hope they aren't using the same projection system that makes Atkins say that they are very very strong when it comes to position players

 

Sounds like something Trump would say

 

Pretty sure Atkins was talking about the organization, not the MLB club by itself.

[King]

Pretty sure Atkins was talking about the organization, not the MLB club by itself.

 

That's Dogg/Zee/Realaccountant/MohYou/MarcoSanchez, FYI

[saskjayfan]

I don't care much for it and would have preferred a package built around the one of the many high-upside arms in the lower minors of their system. Not hard to see McKinney or Drury contributing enough make it a fine deal though.

 

all a guy like Drury does is prevent better young players from being promoted to the big leagues. This management team doesn't want to attempt to compete next year either. It wouldn't surprise me if Vlad plays AAA the entire year next year.

[saskjayfan]

This team desperately needs pitching. All this management team does is trade and draft middle infielders. They collect SS and 2nd basemen like my aunt collected beanie babies in the 90s....it's ridiculous.

[Jimcanuck]

This team desperately needs pitching. All this management team does is trade and draft middle infielders. They collect SS and 2nd basemen like my aunt collected beanie babies in the 90s....it's ridiculous.

 

Not a bad play, really. If you can play SS or 2B, generally speaking you can play anywhere except C.

 

Groshans for example is 6'4" and a very capable SS. But at his size he's likely a 3B or corner OF in MLB

 

Drury can play 1B, 2B, 3B, OF and probably SS in a pinch

[P2F]

This team desperately needs pitching. All this management team does is trade and draft middle infielders. They collect SS and 2nd basemen like my aunt collected beanie babies in the 90s....it's ridiculous.

 

Yes, what an absolutely despicable strategy!

[Grant77]

This team desperately needs pitching. All this management team does is trade and draft middle infielders. They collect SS and 2nd basemen like my aunt collected beanie babies in the 90s....it's ridiculous.

 

Drury just landed a blue chip pitching prospect in Taylor Widener and more in the offseason. It's not like we can't move him again if the need arises.

[saskjayfan]

Drury just landed a blue chip pitching prospect in Taylor Widener and more in the offseason. It's not like we can't move him again if the need arises.

 

Drury is hot garbage...he's never going to be a better than average player. Ask Arizona if they would take Drury back for Widener....they wouldn't be able to stop laughing. We should have traded happ for a single A pitcher, but we got that coveted slightly below average depth piece that Shatkins loves. Taking a risk on a player...not exactly shatkins style....we're stuck in perpetual mediocrity.

[Grant77]

Drury is hot garbage...he's never going to be a better than average player. Ask Arizona if they would take Drury back for Widener....they wouldn't be able to stop laughing. We should have traded happ for a single A pitcher, but we got that coveted slightly below average depth piece that Shatkins loves. Taking a risk on a player...not exactly shatkins style....we're stuck in perpetual mediocrity.

 

There's really nothing wrong with an average player. Teams are always looking for average players, especially ones with 4 years of control.

 

Single A pitchers aren't going to do anything for this team for about 5 years so I fail to see why would do that unless the return was far more valuable than Drury. The plan is clearly to build a core around our young studs without becoming a laughing stock like the Orioles. We should all be happy about that.