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Jonn MVP

Jonn

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Steve Pearce is unconscious, lol.

 

I had a feeling he would be a monster for Boston. He will definitely start over Moreland going forward. Probably won't even platoon them at this point.

Spanky__99 FCL Blue Jays

Spanky__99

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I had a feeling he would be a monster for Boston. He will definitely start over Moreland going forward. Probably won't even platoon them at this point.

 

This game is heated, and yeah, Cora rewarded him the start tonight, and he goes yard again, wow!

Jonn MVP

Jonn

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Wade Davis got throated again in the 9th I'm just waiting for Adam Ottavino to get that closers job. FeelsGoodMan.
Spanky__99 FCL Blue Jays

Spanky__99

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Wade Davis got throated again in the 9th I'm just waiting for Adam Ottavino to get that closers job. FeelsGoodMan.

 

That just blows me away, he should be behind Oh in that pecking order.

Jonn MVP

Jonn

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted (edited)
Mike Scioscia stepping down after 2018.

 

1 dinosaur down, many more to go.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/mike-scioscia-to-step-down-as-angels-manager/c-288938414

 

“Stepping down” to protect his “legacy”. Angels should have made this move along time ago. I know the Angels rotation blows up every year and that Pujols contract is a massive anchor. But the fact that they can’t put a winning team around the best player on the planet is embarrassing. Mike Trout might actually be the best player to ever play when hes done. But that’s the fun part hes still so f***ing young and has more career WAR than many Hall Of Famers.

Edited by Jonn
Grant77 Toronto Blue Jays

Grant77

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
“Stepping down” to protect his “legacy”. Angels should have made this move along time ago. I know the Angels rotation blows up every year and that Pujols contract is a massive anchor. But the fact that they can’t put a winning team around the best player on the planet is embarrassing. Mike Trout might actually be the best player to ever play when hes done. But that’s the fun part hes still so f***ing you and has more career WAR than many Hall Of Famers.

 

Well let's keep in mind that Babe Ruth had 9 seasons better than Mike Trout has ever had. Not to downplay Trout's abilities or anything, but he has to improve and maintain that level for a long time to be in that conversation.

John_Havok MVP

John_Havok

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Well let's keep in mind that Babe Ruth had 9 seasons better than Mike Trout has ever had. Not to downplay Trout's abilities or anything, but he has to improve and maintain that level for a long time to be in that conversation.

 

Ruth was great in his era, but let's not compare he and Trout's baseball skills. The eras are so different it's impossible to compare them

Grant77 Toronto Blue Jays

Grant77

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Ruth was great in his era, but let's not compare he and Trout's baseball skills. The eras are so different it's impossible to compare them

 

Ruth was much better compared to his peers than Trout is compared to his peers to this point in his career. That's the only argument that I'm interested in making. Comparing actual skills is an unfair argument, as older players didn't have access to the same opportunities.

 

Basically, let's wait and see if he reaches another level in his late 20's and maintains it before we start mentioning him in the same breath with Ruth or even Barry Bonds for that matter.

onwego College Ball

onwego

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Ruth was much better compared to his peers than Trout is compared to his peers to this point in his career. That's the only argument that I'm interested in making. Comparing actual skills is an unfair argument, as older players didn't have access to the same opportunities.

 

Basically, let's wait and see if he reaches another level in his late 20's and maintains it before we start mentioning him in the same breath with Ruth or even Barry Bonds for that matter.

 

Ruth completely rewrite the book on batting in baseball. One can be justified in not feeling this was a perfectly great thing.

Boxcar All-Star

Boxcar

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Ruth was much better compared to his peers than Trout is compared to his peers to this point in his career. That's the only argument that I'm interested in making. Comparing actual skills is an unfair argument, as older players didn't have access to the same opportunities.

 

Basically, let's wait and see if he reaches another level in his late 20's and maintains it before we start mentioning him in the same breath with Ruth or even Barry Bonds for that matter.

 

Yeah, opportunities like playing against blacks and hispanics, who dominate today's league. Balls are thrown much harder as well and are at the very limit of the capabilities of the human body to handle.

 

The league drew from a much, much smaller pool of players. Destroying guys that basically played baseball as a part time hobby doesn't hold much weight for me.

Krylian MVP

Krylian

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Yeah, opportunities like playing against blacks and hispanics, who dominate today's league. Balls are thrown much harder as well and are at the very limit of the capabilities of the human body to handle.

 

The league drew from a much, much smaller pool of players. Destroying guys that basically played baseball as a part time hobby doesn't hold much weight for me.

 

You can only compare players to who they had to play against in their day. In 75 years Trout will look like a child compared to what players will be able to do then... That takes nothing away from his skills or accomplishments because he was the best of anyone in the world playing at that time, giving the facilities and opportunities given during his time... Just like Ruth was.

tercet First Round Pick

tercet

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
I was at the Cardinals @ Pirates game Friday and on the way out after the stadium Cardinals Harrison Bader(99% sure it was him with a dress hurt and a gold rolex) was in front of me talking s*** about the Cardinals 3b coach and manager bahajjajajhahahah
John_Havok MVP

John_Havok

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Ruth was much better compared to his peers than Trout is compared to his peers to this point in his career. That's the only argument that I'm interested in making. Comparing actual skills is an unfair argument, as older players didn't have access to the same opportunities.

 

Basically, let's wait and see if he reaches another level in his late 20's and maintains it before we start mentioning him in the same breath with Ruth or even Barry Bonds for that matter.

 

No doubt, but there's massive factors of difference in the game then and the game now. It's not unheard of to be an outlier like Ruth when the entirety if the league is basically a small sample size of players.

 

The talent pool wasn't even a pool, it was a talent puddle.

 

Yes Ruth was better relative to his peers, but when you have like 5% of the peers of today's baseball players, it's far more likely that there will be a statistical outlier. You're a science guy, so you should be familiar with the small sample fallacy.

 

So, while you are correct that it's unfair to compare Trout's skills vs Ruths, it's also equally unfair to compare the eras in which they played. Trout putting up the numbers he is putting up now is absolutely more impressive than what Ruth did back then

Grant77 Toronto Blue Jays

Grant77

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
No doubt, but there's massive factors of difference in the game then and the game now. It's not unheard of to be an outlier like Ruth when the entirety if the league is basically a small sample size of players.

 

The talent pool wasn't even a pool, it was a talent puddle.

 

Yes Ruth was better relative to his peers, but when you have like 5% of the peers of today's baseball players, it's far more likely that there will be a statistical outlier. You're a science guy, so you should be familiar with the small sample fallacy.

 

So, while you are correct that it's unfair to compare Trout's skills vs Ruths, it's also equally unfair to compare the eras in which they played. Trout putting up the numbers he is putting up now is absolutely more impressive than what Ruth did back then

 

I understand what you're trying to say and I agree with it to an extent. There are some other points worth considering, however.

 

For one thing, you overstate the effect that an influx of new talent has on a generational player. I have serious doubts that an influx of black pitchers would have any more effect on Ruth than it did for a guy like Stan Musial during the height of integration ( https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/musiast01.shtml ). Even against the elite pitching of the playoffs, he was even better than he was in the regular season. These guys are just on a different level and will excel against any pitchers.

 

Consider the other elite players of the era like Tris Speaker, Rogers Hornsby, and Harry Heilmann. Even if you expand the pool of players to include the negro leagues, it's fair to say that they were all top 10 players of that era. Ruth absolutely dwarfed their statistics. Consider the top white players of today like Donaldson, Harper, Judge, etc. and the difference is not nearly as large.

 

Babe Ruth was so good that he changed the way that the game was played. He was putting up 50+ HR seasons when the next best player wasn't even reaching 20 and entire teams didn't hit 50. He was putting up 15 WAR seasons when the next best players were barely reaching half of that value. Trout isn't doing that. While his accomplishments are remarkable, there are always other guys like Jose Ramirez with similar reaults in any given year. He's not doing anything that has never been done before like Bonds or Ruth.

 

Also, let's not forget the pitching aspect. Babe Ruth was one of the top pitchers in the league for a short time and anecdotal evidence suggests that he could have had a Hall of Fame career on the mound as well. How do we quantify this? I'm not sure, but I can just imagine that with modern training like Ohtani has, he could have been a 2 way sensation for the majority of his career. The level of talent it takes to be an all-time great on both sides of the ball is just incredible.

Olerud363 FCL Blue Jays

Olerud363

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
He was putting up 15 WAR seasons when the next best players were barely reaching half of that value. Trout isn't doing that. While his accomplishments are remarkable, there are always other guys like Jose Ramirez with similar reaults in any given year. He's not doing anything that has never been done before like Bonds or Ruth.

 

21 Ruth 13.9 Hornsbpy 11

22 Hornsbpy 11 (Ruth 6th 6 WAR)

23 Ruth 15 Hornsby 9.8

24 Ruth 12.5 Hornsby 12.5

25 Hornsby 11 or something Ruth 3.6 (like 40th)

26 Ruth 12 Gerhig 7

27 Ruth 13 Gerhrig 12.5

28 Ruth 12 Gerhrig 11

 

Above numbers are aproximate as I copied them from fangraphs.

 

1. Babe Ruth did not have 15 WAR seasons. He had 1 (one) 15 WAR season. In that season he dwarfed everyone.

2. Babe Ruth was often in a close race with Hornsby, and later Gerhrig for the WAR lead. Just like Trout is in close races with Donaldson, or Ramirez or whoever.

3. Babe Ruth had a couple of bad, injury riddles seasons in which he was way down in WAR.

 

Question for those who have honesty and integrity.

 

Is the difference between Ruth and Hornsby (and/or Gehrig) bigger than the difference between Trout and whoever you think is second best??

Jimcanuck Buffalo Bisons

Jimcanuck

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Impossible to compare generational players.

 

Ruth was much further ahead of his peers compared to Trout over his.

 

Ruth was an incredible physical specimen in his prime.... disregard the older photos and videos showing a bloated old guy.

 

Greatest baseball player ever?

 

One of Ruth, Cobb, Mays, Aaron, Bonds, Williams, Trout. Impossible to choose.

L54 Vancouver Canadians

L54

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Can someone help me find that 2015 AL Managers group pic at the winter meetings? The one where Gibby rocks the untucked Walmart dress shirt
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