Toronto Blue Jays Rebuilding Thread

[glory]

It is going to suck having to watch Kendrys Morales in 2019.

 

Don't forget 2018 and the rest of 2017.

[Brownie19]

What is rest of top 10? Raines, Rickey, ty?

 

Rickey was #1, Raines #2. Ty Cobb was #24

[Dick_Pole]

Priority has to be ditching Tulo ASAP imo...

 

It can be done. Jays will have to eat half of it likely but it can be done

 

I seriously don't get this...ditching Tulowitzki is a priority? His contract isn't great but it's not like it's Pujols-level bad. What's the solution? Pay a team $10M/yr to take him and field Goins and Barney out there everyday? Like it or not he's the best player the Jays have right now to play SS at least until the end of 2018. Might as well stick with him until then.

[Maine Jays]

Question: would anyone else have traded Stroman for the package the White Sox received for Quintana?

 

or if the Astros called, offering Martes and Tucker?

[Pendleton]

Question: would anyone else have traded Stroman for the package the White Sox received for Quintana?

 

or if the Astros called, offering Martes and Tucker?

 

It's a tough package to turn down but I'd keep Stro.

[glory]

I wonder if we can get our hands on Yelich. Pillar seems like an easy starting point for the Marlins because he will be cheap for a while. We can add prospects from there or just take bad contracts with Yelich.

 

If Shapiro is actually sincere about going for it without sacrificing the rebuilding of the farm, then he will have to pull off a better version of the 2013 Marlins trade. Rather than getting Miami's old expensive players, they need to target guys like Yelich, and maybe take on a bad contract (Gordon, Volquez) to lessen the prospects going the other way. Yelich at 4/44.5m for his age 26-29 seasons (with $15mm team option at age 30) seems like a pretty safe deal. If you can get that type of contract/player and all it really costs is the expense of taking back a bad contract that ultimately still might have value in some way, then you're killing two birds with one stone.

 

Not my top choice, I'd MUCH rather rebuild, but if you're going to try to both rebuild and win at the same time, then it's going to take some risks.

[Boxcar]

If Shapiro is actually sincere about going for it without sacrificing the rebuilding of the farm, then he will have to pull off a better version of the 2013 Marlins trade. Rather than getting Miami's old expensive players, they need to target guys like Yelich, and maybe take on a bad contract (Gordon, Volquez) to lessen the prospects going the other way. Yelich at 4/44.5m for his age 26-29 seasons (with $15mm team option at age 30) seems like a pretty safe deal. If you can get that type of contract/player and all it really costs is the expense of taking back a bad contract that ultimately still might have value in some way, then you're killing two birds with one stone.

 

Not my top choice, I'd MUCH rather rebuild, but if you're going to try to both rebuild and win at the same time, then it's going to take some risks.

 

The issue is the ownership. Rogers answering to shareholders might kibosh any hopes of an Astros style rebuild.

 

Which sucks.

[glory]

The issue is the ownership. Rogers answering to shareholders might kibosh any hopes of an Astros style rebuild.

 

Which sucks.

 

Yeah I don't expect Rogers to ever rebuild, much less now when they are going to lead the AL in attendance, or come damn close to it for the second straight year. I actually feel bad for Shapiro because based on his history I'm sure he would not mind gutting this roster but this is the life of corporate ownership. I like the idea of taking back Miami's trash to get Yelich only because it helps 2018, does not sacrifice top prospects, and the team would be using the one thing ROgers might be good for which is financial muscle. If you're going to tread water to avoid a rebuild, then find creative ways to get affordable/high value impact talent without losing any prospects. If Yelich is a 3-4 win talent in LF for the next few years at a great rate, and all you have to do is stomach Volquez as your $13m #5 starter for a year, and/or Gordon at 2B until you can trade him somewhere else, then I'll take that over trying to sign another Morales type stop gap. At least you're getting 2018 wins in that scenario and not losing 2019-beyond wins by trading top prospects.

 

Although, maybe giving the illusion of going for it, while purposely losing to get in better draft position and forcing ownership to accept a rebuild might work too.

[Krylian]

The issue is the ownership. Rogers answering to shareholders might kibosh any hopes of an Astros style rebuild.

 

Which sucks.

 

They let the Leafs do it.

[Boxcar]

They let the Leafs do it.

 

The Leaves sell out no matter how bad they are so the ownership doesn't care. This is obviously a very different dynamic.

[Krylian]

The Leaves sell out no matter how bad they are so the ownership doesn't care. This is obviously a very different dynamic.

 

That's fine...but if you're trying (spending loads) and are still in the basement again next year people will start to stay at home. Apathy hit this fanbase for 20 years...do they really want to go down that path again and embrace mediocrity? They should piggy back what the Leafs are doing while the fans are still here and package it as 'see how young and exciting your hockey team is...we're going to give you a baseball team to be proud of like that too'. Do it now while fans have it fresh in their memory how well a rebuild is working on the ice.

[Dick_Pole]

The issue is the ownership. Rogers answering to shareholders might kibosh any hopes of an Astros style rebuild.

 

Which sucks.

 

I don't see how not subjecting your fan base to an Astros-style rebuild sucks. Shapiro and Atkins are better than this. They can field a decent team now while building for the future at the same time. Good drafting and player development, shrewd trades and free agent additions can go a long way to promoting both causes.

[wk680]

I wonder if we can get our hands on Yelich. Pillar seems like an easy starting point for the Marlins because he will be cheap for a while. We can add prospects from there or just take bad contracts with Yelich.

 

Pillar for Yelich seems interesting but unlikely to see Yelich traded (see below). Jays would probably have to include a good prospect to get this one done. Would giving them Pillar and Urena be too much for Yelich? Not sure how Urena might fit in the Jays future plans with Warmouth and Bichette as other possibilities at SS.

 

Yeah I don't expect Rogers to ever rebuild, much less now when they are going to lead the AL in attendance, or come damn close to it for the second straight year. I actually feel bad for Shapiro because based on his history I'm sure he would not mind gutting this roster but this is the life of corporate ownership. I like the idea of taking back Miami's trash to get Yelich only because it helps 2018, does not sacrifice top prospects, and the team would be using the one thing ROgers might be good for which is financial muscle. If you're going to tread water to avoid a rebuild, then find creative ways to get affordable/high value impact talent without losing any prospects. If Yelich is a 3-4 win talent in LF for the next few years at a great rate, and all you have to do is stomach Volquez as your $13m #5 starter for a year, and/or Gordon at 2B until you can trade him somewhere else, then I'll take that over trying to sign another Morales type stop gap. At least you're getting 2018 wins in that scenario and not losing 2019-beyond wins by trading top prospects.

 

Although, maybe giving the illusion of going for it, while purposely losing to get in better draft position and forcing ownership to accept a rebuild might work too.

 

I agree with the thinking, BUT on Monday the report from an interview of Marlins president said they were looking to retain Yelich, Ozuna, and Realmuto.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/marlins-trade-rumors-stanton-yelich-ozuna.html

 

Probably, this means it won't be easy to swing a trade for Yelich without giving them top prospects, or as you say, taking on a bunch of "Miami's trash". Probably, Gordon shouldn't be put in the trash category (on pace for ~ 3 fWAR). I wouldn't want to take on 2-3 bad contracts to add to those of Tulo and Morales, and to a lesser extent Martin, just to get one good player unless Rogers is willing to go to $200M payroll. In that case maybe going with free agents for the short term may be better.

 

 

I don't see how not subjecting your fan base to an Astros-style rebuild sucks. Shapiro and Atkins are better than this. They can field a decent team now while building for the future at the same time. Good drafting and player development, shrewd trades and free agent additions can go a long way to promoting both causes.

 

Yes with a team that has a chance to contend if things fall into place while having financial commitment from ownership to plug the holes with veterans until the young guys are ready to step in, there is no reason the Jays need to tank rather than a Red Sox / Yankees type retool.

[Sammy225]

WE should likely go after this Tebow kid in the Mets organization. I hear he is the read deal.

[keggy]

It is going to suck having to watch Kendrys Morales in 2019.

 

If he follows standard aging curves and they keep playing him, he'll be one of the 5 worst players in the league.

[Terminator]

It is going to suck having to watch Kendrys Morales in 2019.

 

He sucks.

[Jonn]

If they waited a few weeks on Morales they probably get him for one year at 8M. That's the most disappointing part. You don't give 33 year old bad body DH's 3 year deals. You take it year by year. He's such a black hole on this roster and it was easily avoidable.

[glory]

I agree with the thinking, BUT on Monday the report from an interview of Marlins president said they were looking to retain Yelich, Ozuna, and Realmuto.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/marlins-trade-rumors-stanton-yelich-ozuna.html

 

Probably, this means it won't be easy to swing a trade for Yelich without giving them top prospects, or as you say, taking on a bunch of "Miami's trash". Probably, Gordon shouldn't be put in the trash category (on pace for ~ 3 fWAR). I wouldn't want to take on 2-3 bad contracts to add to those of Tulo and Morales, and to a lesser extent Martin, just to get one good player unless Rogers is willing to go to $200M payroll. In that case maybe going with free agents for the short term may be better.

 

Yeah I don't think the Marlins will do that as they could trade Yelich by himself and get a ton of value back, but hypothetically if you could acquire him for less by taking back a s*** load of money that Miami doesn't want to pay beyond this season, then it's a better alternative in the retooling scenario. Gordon has 3/38 guaranteed with a pretty easy to get vesting option if he stays healthy (since most managers will bat him lead off to let him collect a ton of PA's) for $14mm. I don't know if too many teams would give him that. He's not a bad player, but he's basically Revere at 2B heading into his 30's. I doubt the Marlins will get much value for him if he's traded alone. Depends on Miami wants to do I guess, but yeah they have no reason to trade Yelich or group him with s*** to lessen the return unless they want to shed as many money as possible.

 

The reality of keeping JD, Happ, etc, next season, and just adding vets like Granderson to fill out the rest of the lineup is not very exciting, but I'm afraid that might be where we are heading. Convince Rogers to punt, Shapiro!

[Terminator]

If they waited a few weeks on Morales they probably get him for one year at 8M. That's the most disappointing part. You don't give 33 year old bad body DH's 3 year deals. You take it year by year. He's such a black hole on this roster and it was easily avoidable.

 

Extremely puzzling move by a usually solid FO. I'm not even sure he's starting in year 3 of that deal.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

The Jays (Shapiro) has discussed taking on bad contracts to get good contracts/good players and save their farm system capital.

 

Why not trade a bad contract for an even worse contract? Morales for Votto, where the Reds eat $10M/year?

 

On a different trade front, I like the idea of trading for Dee Gordon actually.

[metafour]

Why not trade a bad contract for an even worse contract? Morales for Votto, where the Reds eat $10M/year?

 

The Reds eat $10 mill a year and get absolutely nothing of value for a guy who is still one of the best players in the league. Brilliant. Maybe we can get them to throw in Nick Senzel too?

[BTS]

The Jays (Shapiro) has discussed taking on bad contracts to get good contracts/good players and save their farm system capital.

 

Why not trade a bad contract for an even worse contract? Morales for Votto, where the Reds eat $10M/year?

 

On a different trade front, I like the idea of trading for Dee Gordon actually.

 

Votto is still a 5-6 win player. If they wanted to move him, teams like Boston and New York would give up a lot to get him.

[Abomination]

The Jays (Shapiro) has discussed taking on bad contracts to get good contracts/good players and save their farm system capital.

 

Why not trade a bad contract for an even worse contract? Morales for Votto, where the Reds eat $10M/year?

 

On a different trade front, I like the idea of trading for Dee Gordon actually.

 

Votto would cost us a lot. He's actually earning his contract, and then some.

 

I do like the idea of Dee Gordon a little. I think there could also be a possibility of Zobrist being available, if the Cubs make another move that adds some payroll. I wonder if Rogers would pony up to land Stanton, and how badly he's affecting a sale of the Marlins (if at all)?

 

I still kinda wonder if Morales for Gardner would be a possibility, in spite of us being in the same division.

[Boxcar]

I don't care what the Jays do if Ezequiel Carrera disappears forever.

[Angrioter]

Report: Brewers showing interest in Athletics' Gray, Blue Jays' Happ

 

 

Keon Broxton or Brett Phillips

[Pendleton]

Report: Brewers showing interest in Athletics' Gray, Blue Jays' Happ

 

 

Keon Broxton or Brett Phillips

 

Ortiz + Phillips + Burnes

[baubau]

Ortiz + Phillips + Burnes

 

Throw in a Phil Bickford with it and we'll throw in an Estrada!

[Slade]

Yea I'd take Ortiz and Burnes for Happ. I don't know about Bickford if he can't lay off the weed and now projecting to be a bullpen arm.

[Angrioter]

Cubs want Archer, Cole or Stroman.

 

Schwarber + Happ + Maddon

[skirbs11]

Cubs want Archer, Cole or Stroman.

 

Schwarber + Happ + Maddon

 

Was this before getting Quintana or are they still looking to add?