General 2017 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[KingKat]

If the Blue Jays want to be the fourth to do so, the club should study how the others overcame early deficits to land in the postseason.

 

Sentences like that are why I stopped following The Score. There is literally nothing to be gleaned from studying those other teams other than, "if you lose a bunch at the start of the season, you need to win a whole bunch down the line to make up for it".

[BTS]

If the team continues to struggle (and this is a huge if: it's still mid-April) JD trade talk is going to be the MLB story of the next year. A mediocre team can't just let a player of that caliber walk.

[Laika]

If the team continues to struggle (and this is a huge if: it's still mid-April) JD trade talk is going to be the MLB story of the next year. A mediocre team can't just let a player of that caliber walk.

 

I think when you control a player like Donaldson there is an onus to compete. Their window runs through 2018 - that's how they need to look at it.

 

Next offseason they have Bautista, Liriano and Estrada as significant potential departures (also some relievers but who cares). Not irreplaceable by any means. And Estrada might be an easy extension.

 

So yeah, I think they can justify letting him walk. Take a shot in 2018.

[BTS]

I think when you control a player like Donaldson there is an onus to compete. Their window runs through 2018 - that's how they need to look at it.

 

Next offseason they have Bautista, Liriano and Estrada as significant potential departures (also some relievers but who cares). Not irreplaceable by any means. And Estrada might be an easy extension.

 

So yeah, I think they can justify letting him walk. Take a shot in 2018.

 

I guess it depends how bad things get this year in this hypothetical situation that sees them bad enough to justify this kind of thing. If they play as expected and win 80+ games ROS, he obviously stays. If things actually get bad and they finish with a low-70s win total or something, it becomes harder to justify keeping JD for a 2018 run given that a down period will look inevitable if that happens, and a JD trade return gives them a huge head start on turning things around quickly.

 

I guess the other possibly is that they wear their big boy pants and keep their super-elite franchise player long-term.

[Brownie19]

Just curious - what do people do in Wasaga in the winter? :/

 

We huddle in our homes and dream about better days when the sun in shining and the GTA returns to fill our gorgeous sandy beaches and s***** bars with their pimped out civics, muscle shirts, grease, testosterone, herpes and garbage. That's really all we live for up here! It's the f***ing best! What do you do in the winter?

[Brownie19]

I guess it depends how bad things get this year in this hypothetical situation that sees them bad enough to justify this kind of thing. If they play as expected and win 80+ games ROS, he obviously stays. If things actually get bad and they finish with a low-70s win total or something, it becomes harder to justify keeping JD for a 2018 run given that a down period will look inevitable if that happens, and a JD trade return gives them a huge head start on turning things around quickly.

 

I guess the other possibly is that they wear their big boy pants and keep their super-elite franchise player long-term.

 

I don't know if it's that simple.

 

1. How much longer will he be super-elite?

2. The longer you keep him, the lower his trade value is.

 

Good thing we have a strong front office in place to make these difficult decisions.

[HERPDERP]

We huddle in our homes and dream about better days when the sun in shining and the GTA returns to fill our gorgeous sandy beaches and s***** bars with their pimped out civics, muscle shirts, grease, testosterone, herpes and garbage. That's really all we live for up here! It's the f***ing best! What do you do in the winter?

 

Hiking, snoeshoeing, skating, the usual.

 

Whenever I visit Wasaga I'm amazed at how many Hells Angels lookalikes and unique cars show up. I think I saw one of those open air two seaters that Cespedes also drives.

[BTS]

I don't know if it's that simple.

 

1. How much longer will he be super-elite?

2. The longer you keep him, the lower his trade value is.

 

Good thing we have a strong front office in place to make these difficult decisions.

 

It's not simple at all. The decision to keep him at his expected price tag (200-250M probably?) is franchise-altering and has no easy answers. You're probably not going to get surplus value on him. But that's not the only consideration. They're very conservative, so I don't think they'll keep him.

[BTS]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-blue-jays-upcoming-quandary/

 

Jays win projection dropped to 81-81 and playoffs odds fell from 52% to 26% so far this year according to FG

[Brownie19]

Hiking, snoeshoeing, skating, the usual.

 

Whenever I visit Wasaga I'm amazed at how many Hells Angels lookalikes and unique cars show up. I think I saw one of those open air two seaters that Cespedes also drives.

 

Believe it or not - we do that too. Blue Mountain is nearby too (although the GTA yahoos take that over on weekends too). The Georgian Triangle is a pretty amazing place to live to be honest - in all 4 seasons. I haven't been to Beach 1 in Wasaga (the main end) in probably 10 years now. It's a f***ing s*** hole.

 

That said, we just completed a Master Plan study to actually create a proper Main Street with an event square, new arena, etc. - all of which includes significant improvements to the main drag. I'm hopeful that over the next 10-15 years they can transform it into something good - like Blue Mountain has done.

[glory]

I don't think Donaldson stays either. He doesn't seem like the type who will miss out on testing free agency to maximize his earnings and the front office doesn't seem like the type who will overpay him enough for him to not test free agency.

 

I think if he is traded at all it will be at the deadline in 2018. They won't trade him before that.

[Farm]

I think when you control a player like Donaldson there is an onus to compete. Their window runs through 2018 - that's how they need to look at it.

 

Next offseason they have Bautista, Liriano and Estrada as significant potential departures (also some relievers but who cares). Not irreplaceable by any means. And Estrada might be an easy extension.

 

So yeah, I think they can justify letting him walk. Take a shot in 2018.

 

With the age of the core, I don't see the justification for taking a shot in 2018. There's a greater chance of natural decline than improvement for a lot of our key players (Tulo/Martin/Happ/Morales) - and baseball is pretty much the opposite of basketball in that it's very much a team sport - just look at Mike Trout and the Angels. It's not like Donaldson is still being paid the minimum either. He's going to command a large salary in his last year of arbitration as well.

 

Dave Cameron said in a recent chat that he saw Josh Donaldson as more of a offseason trade guy than a deadline trade guy. I'm not sure why - perhaps trading a third basement is harder than an outfielder or something in the middle of a season. But from a games played type of perspective, trading him this deadline would probably gain the most value compared to in the offseason.

 

Obviously this is dependent on how the rest of 2017 goes. But if you were telling me you'd get maximum value trading away Donaldson now, I'd honestly strongly consider it. Our team is just so old...

[bowld]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-blue-jays-upcoming-quandary/

 

Jays win projection dropped to 81-81 and playoffs odds fell from 52% to 26% so far this year according to FG

 

No reason to be even discussing playoffs until we get up above .500

[jaysfan2014]

Travis dropped to 9th, Carrera leading off.. when's Pompey going to be ready? Stefan Crichton called up for the O's BTW--guessing one of Jimenez, Miley or Bundy is going on the DL..

 

[jays4life19]

Gibby 1.0.

[BTS]

Carrera leading off is so bad

[Gary]

Carrera leading off is so bad

 

Ya that's weird.

[Gary]

Gibby obviously has a bone-crush on Carrera.

[bowld]

When is he going to move Martin down to 8-9?

[jaysfan2014]

Carrera leading off is so bad

 

Yes, but he can't be any worse than Travis.. who looks like he needs to be sent to AAA to work on stuff.. we could use an OF up here, possibly Dwight Smith Jr. or Ian Parmley, who are tearing the cover off the ball in Buffalo.. Coghlan isn't hitting much at the moment, BTW.

[jays4life19]

Yes, but he can't be any worse than Travis.. who looks like he needs to be sent to AAA to work on stuff.. we could use an OF up here, possibly Dwight Smith Jr. or Ian Parmley, who are tearing the cover off the ball in Buffalo.. Coghlan isn't hitting much at the moment, BTW.

 

And have Goins start at 2nd? f*** that s***.

[Brownie19]

Carrera leading off is so bad

 

I can't say I blame Gibby. We obviously need to shake things up and Carrera did that atop the lineup at times last year. The failure will be running him out there repeated if/when this attempt to spark the offense fails.

[Brownie19]

Yes, but he can't be any worse than Travis.. who looks like he needs to be sent to AAA to work on stuff.. we could use an OF up here, possibly Dwight Smith Jr. or Ian Parmley, who are tearing the cover off the ball in Buffalo.. Coghlan isn't hitting much at the moment, BTW.

 

Do you ever look beyond last nights box score man?

[Brownie19]

When is he going to move Martin down to 8-9?

 

Let's ask Barry!

[Gary]

I can't say I blame Gibby. We obviously need to shake things up and Carrera did that atop the lineup at times last year. The failure will be running him out there repeated if/when this attempt to spark the offense fails.

 

I'd put Morales at leadoff. It's a little unconventional, but I bet it'd help ignite the offence.

[jaysfan2014]

Do you ever look beyond last nights box score man?

 

Yes! And right now, Travis either needs to kept low in the order or in AAA.. and FYI, why is Goins still here?

[Gary]

Let's ask Barry!

 

Barry has an opinion on EVERYTHING. His thoughts on this will be fascinating.

[Terminator]

Still don't know why Goins is on this team. They said for his versatility but we don't need two no-hit infielders. In fact, Barney and Goins haven't appeared in the same game yet this season.

[Gary]

Still don't know why Goins is on this team. They said for his versatility but we don't need two no-hit infielders. In fact, Barney and Goins haven't appeared in the same game yet this season.

Gibby has a bone-crush on Goins too.

[BTS]

Still don't know why Goins is on this team. They said for his versatility but we don't need two no-hit infielders. In fact, Barney and Goins haven't appeared in the same game yet this season.

 

Smoak, Carrera, Goins, and Saltalamacchia. 4 of the 13 bats don't really belong on an MLB roster, and there aren't even injuries that lead to this. Very frustrating.