Outfield Options

[BTS]

What is with the circle jerk for Valbuena?

 

Guy has a 115 wRC+ over the last three years, and given that he plays an acceptable 3B, would probably grade out as plus at 1B. That's a good, versatile player, and he's expected to make like 2/20.

[BTS]

How is this a better option than signing Bautista on a one or two year deal

 

What does Bautista make on a 1-year contract? like 18M? And then the lost comp pick is worth like 10M. I'm not into a ~30M investment in one year of Bautista.

[saskjayfan]

What does Bautista make on a 1-year contract? like 18M? And then the lost comp pick is worth like 10M. I'm not into a ~30M investment in one year of Bautista.

 

Bats may not sign till June then what? Jose prob signs one year 15 in march and he is a much better player the valbuena

[reedjohnsonfan]

How is this a better option than signing Bautista on a one or two year deal

 

It's not. It's cheaper, but a terrible option IMO.

[reedjohnsonfan]

What does Bautista make on a 1-year contract? like 18M? And then the lost comp pick is worth like 10M. I'm not into a ~30M investment in one year of Bautista.

 

Haha really? So they give up a pick for a win now team and spend a bit more (in terms of monetary... not your made up guess of what that pick is worth in present value to the Jays) than Valbuena to bring back Bautista. I think that's a better move than bringing in a lesser, younger player who might bring better "value" but that's just me.

[burlingtonbandit]

I'd really like to see Brandon Moss be signed. Of all the targets talked about he seems by far the best option. Can be a 2 Win player in a platoon role and has even more upside beyond that with the bat much like Morales because he's always played in a s*** ballpark.

 

Average to slight below in a corner OF and can play 1st as well so he has versatility. For what should only cost 20-25 Million I think its great value.

[BTS]

Haha really? So they give up a pick for a win now team and spend a bit more (in terms of monetary... not your made up guess of what that pick is worth in present value to the Jays) than Valbuena to bring back Bautista. I think that's a better move than bringing in a lesser, younger player who might bring better "value" but that's just me.

 

Yeah, but you're probably the dumbest person on the forum.

[BTS]

I'd really like to see Brandon Moss be signed. Of all the targets talked about he seems by far the best option. Can be a 2 Win player in a platoon role and has even more upside beyond that with the bat much like Morales because he's always played in a s*** ballpark.

 

Average to slight below in a corner OF and can play 1st as well so he has versatility. For what should only cost 20-25 Million I think its great value.

 

I bet Moss gets a 1-year deal. And yeah he's a great fit.

[Captain Adama]

Haha really? So they give up a pick for a win now team and spend a bit more (in terms of monetary... not your made up guess of what that pick is worth in present value to the Jays) than Valbuena to bring back Bautista. I think that's a better move than bringing in a lesser, younger player who might bring better "value" but that's just me.

 

This team is not a "win now" team anymore.

[Driveof85]

I'll take Jose Bautista, hands down. Ryan Braun interests me via the trade route but it might cost us too much.

[BTS]

This team is not a "win now" team anymore.

 

Even if they are, it's 'win now while working to build the future'. You'd expect like 2 wins from Valbuena and 2.5-3 from Bautista this year. The $8-10M in savings can be spent on the roster where you recoup that win, and then you bank the pick for the future.

[saskjayfan]

This team is not a "win now" team anymore.

 

We have one of the best players in the al in josh Donaldson and a very strong rotation. If this isn't a win now team what are we going to be in 5 years. I highly doubt we have a top 5 player in the al in 5 years.

[bronson44]

I'd really like to see Brandon Moss be signed. Of all the targets talked about he seems by far the best option. Can be a 2 Win player in a platoon role and has even more upside beyond that with the bat much like Morales because he's always played in a s*** ballpark.

 

Average to slight below in a corner OF and can play 1st as well so he has versatility. For what should only cost 20-25 Million I think its great value.

 

Moss should come cheaper than that. Was predicted 2/14

[GD]

BTS vs RJF is always a good time

[RealAccountant]

We have one of the best players in the al in josh Donaldson and a very strong rotation. If this isn't a win now team what are we going to be in 5 years. I highly doubt we have a top 5 player in the al in 5 years.

 

Or a rotation like this

[TBJ12]

This team is not a "win now" team anymore.

 

I'm not so sure about that. You can't just s*** on a fanbase that's show up for the first time since the mid 90's. I fully expect Shatkins to do everything they can to put a contender on the field without sacrificing the future. Is it impossible to believe this team can remain a contender while rebuilding at the same time?

[burlingtonbandit]

I bet Moss gets a 1-year deal. And yeah he's a great fit.

 

I honestly would rather sign him for a 2 year deal if its the same AAV.

[Captain Adama]

I'm not so sure about that. You can't just s*** on a fanbase that's show up for the first time since the mid 90's. I fully expect Shatkins to do everything they can to put a contender on the field without sacrificing the future. Is it impossible to believe this team can remain a contender while rebuilding at the same time?

 

When it's a win now team, I'm thinking of an organization like the Nats, whom are giving up their future to trade for players and draft picks hold less value to them. This team is still trying to win, but not at the expense of the farm system or the draft pick balance if it meant overpaying for someone. Which is essentially what has happened. Even though IMO the front office has done a pretty good job thus far at getting the lineup to be competitive.

[Boxcar]

What is with the circle jerk for Valbuena?

 

Boring platoon guy. The BTS special.

[Brownie19]

I'm not so sure about that. You can't just s*** on a fanbase that's show up for the first time since the mid 90's. I fully expect Shatkins to do everything they can to put a contender on the field without sacrificing the future. Is it impossible to believe this team can remain a contender while rebuilding at the same time?

 

Half the fans think Jose is still good defensively with his rocket arm in RF (see Rogers commercial with him throwing 92). Let's cater to what the fans want...said no good GM ever.

[Brownie19]

Bats may not sign till June then what? Jose prob signs one year 15 in march and he is a much better player the valbuena

 

You mean the Jose Baustisa who posted 1.4 WAR in 517 PA's last year and the Luis Valbuena who posted 2.0 WAR in 342 PA's?

[baseballsss]

Half the fans think Jose is still good defensively with his rocket arm in RF (see Rogers commercial with him throwing 92). Let's cater to what the fans want...said no good GM ever.

 

Baltimore.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Yeah, but you're probably the dumbest person on the forum.

 

You're waving your hands and saying that the comp pick is worth 10 million when you have no idea what they value it as... that sounds pretty dumb to me, but to each their own!

[Brownie19]

You're waving your hands and saying that the comp pick is worth 10 million when you have no idea what they value it as... that sounds pretty dumb to me, but to each their own!

 

http://i.giphy.com/3o7abu6MhmCNxqUT4I.gif

[BTS]

You're waving your hands and saying that the comp pick is worth 10 million when you have no idea what they value it as... that sounds pretty dumb to me, but to each their own!

 

MLB teams have valued those comp picks at around $10M recently, so that's approximately what they're 'worth' in the MLB marketplace. Whether Toronto values them a couple million more or less is not really relevant in a discussion amongst fans about what they'd like to see the team do.

 

You've taken to disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing with me, and its resulted in you posting some very stupid things.

[reedjohnsonfan]

MLB teams have valued those comp picks at around $10M recently, so that's approximately what they're 'worth' in the MLB marketplace. Whether Toronto values them a couple million more or less is not really relevant in a discussion amongst fans about what they'd like to see the team do.

 

You've taken to disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing with me, and its resulted in you posting some very stupid things.

 

You're saying Bautista would cost about 30 million for 1 year, that's a pretty serious claim. The value of the comp pick is in your mind somewhere around 1/3 of that cost when we have no idea what they value it as.

 

So you're made up number of the comp pick is inducing you to believe they should sign Valbuena instead of Bautista. I think that's pretty misinformed, but that's just my opinion.

[Brownie19]

You're saying Bautista would cost about 30 million for 1 year, that's a pretty serious claim. The value of the comp pick is in your mind somewhere around 1/3 of that cost when we have no idea what they value it as.

 

So you're made up number of the comp pick is inducing you to believe they should sign Valbuena instead of Bautista. I think that's pretty misinformed, but that's just my opinion.

 

Just think - we can collect 2 comp picks for Jose and EE (valued at $20M) and sign Valbuena to a 2 year $18M deal...it's like getting him for free - and he was significantly better than Jose last year. It's a win-win.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Brownie19

[BTS]

You're saying Bautista would cost about 30 million for 1 year, that's a pretty serious claim. The value of the comp pick is in your mind somewhere around 1/3 of that cost when we have no idea what they value it as.

 

So you're made up number of the comp pick is inducing you to believe they should sign Valbuena instead of Bautista. I think that's pretty misinformed, but that's just my opinion.

 

We have a very good idea what value MLB teams are placing on the comp pick: about 10M. That's not from my mind, that's from analysis that has been done on the value MLB teams are putting on the comp pick. I'm using the best available information in assuming that the market value of the pick is in the 10M range.

 

When you mock the idea that Valbuena + ~9M + the comp pick is more valuable than Bautista @ 18M, you're assigning a value to the comp pick. Well, what you're doing is completely disregarding the value of the pick, even in the face of evidence that MLB teams are placing about 10M in value on those picks. I don't know why you're doing that, but it's definitely less informed and less honest than anything I've posted.

 

To recap

research: MLB teams are valuing the comp pick at around 10M

BTS: comp picks are probably worth about 10M in the MLB marketplace, because the evidence suggests that that's what teams are valuing them at

reedjohnsonfan: the comp picks have no value

[Governator]

Has there actually been a study to show the average value of a comp pick to be $10MM? That seems like a very aggressive evaluation. I can understand using the extra slot money to sign players in later rounds thus giving you a better chance at signing your top picks, not sure if you can put a value on that though.

 

Also, does the 2017 draft have the comp picks still sandwiched between 1st & 2nd or do the rules from the new CBA kick in which would seemingly make them them worth much less?

[reedjohnsonfan]

We have a very good idea what value MLB teams are placing on the comp pick: about 10M. That's not from my mind, that's from analysis that has been done on the value MLB teams are putting on the comp pick. I'm using the best available information in assuming that the market value of the pick is in the 10M range.

 

When you mock the idea that Valbuena + ~9M + the comp pick is more valuable than Bautista @ 18M, you're assigning a value to the comp pick. Well, what you're doing is completely disregarding the value of the pick, even in the face of evidence that MLB teams are placing about 10M in value on those picks. I don't know why you're doing that, but it's definitely less informed and less honest than anything I've posted.

 

To recap

research: MLB teams are valuing the comp pick at around 10M

BTS: comp picks are probably worth about 10M in the MLB marketplace, because the evidence suggests that that's what teams are valuing them at

reedjohnsonfan: the comp picks have no value

 

When did I say they have no value? I said you have no idea what the Blue Jays value the draft pick at, which is quite true. I saw some evidence NJH posted a couple weeks ago, it was a shred of evidence from what I remember (although interesting, so it was nice of him to share). Taking that as given and then applying it to one specific team is a pointless exercise.