Cardinals to Sign Dexter Fowler

[BTS]

They also made a 4/80 offer to Edwin which was turned down, and a 4/60 offer to Fowler which was apparently trumped big time by the Cardinals.

 

Lots of off-season to go.

 

Although, I get a sense the buzz around the Jays in the next few months will resemble the Sportsnet comment section, and that's going to be mad annoying.

 

If the whining in this thread is any indication, you're absolutely right. Casual fans don't understand that what was going on under AA was not sustainable, and that maintaining a competitive roster while the old/expensive core hits free agency and/or declines was always going to be extremely difficult. Year 1 of turning the roster over was a resounding success, and I'm loving what I'm seeing so far in year 2.

[dineke]

They also made a 4/80 offer to Edwin which was turned down, and a 4/60 offer to Fowler which was apparently trumped big time by the Cardinals.

 

Lots of off-season to go.

 

Although, I get a sense the buzz around the Jays in the next few months will resemble the Sportsnet comment section, and that's going to be mad annoying.

 

i love it when jays fans are mad.

[jerb]

 

Derrick Goold Verified account

‏@dgoold

The Fowler Has Landed: He's in STL, whisked away by airport security. Was greeted at gate, signed autograph for airport official. #cardinals

[Candy Maldonado]

http://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-toronto-blue-jays-info/

 

Is that right? I thought we weren't paying Upton anything this season.

[nutz003]

The Yankees had to re-arm because they did what you're advocating doing and things got so bad that they couldn't even win on a 200M payroll. And the Tigers are two years into what will be at least the better part of a decade of irrelevance thanks to Dombrowski.

 

St. Louis is a good example of a team that's had a lot of success operating in a way that Shapiro has demonstrated that he wants to operate here: make low-risk additions and supplement a home-grown core with low-mid tier short-term free agent deals. They don't want a two-year window. They want to compete every year. And a 160M payroll is enough to do it if they don't make irrational free agent mistakes.

 

We are in a position now where we have a legitimate chance at a World Series the next two seasons if we fill a couple of needs properly. If we want to rebuild our farm with top level talent than significant trades are probably out of the question, so that leaves Free Agency to fill our needs while this window is still open. I am sorry, but after being a loyal fan from before they won their 2 World Series' and sticking by them through the following 22 years, and finally seeing this city (heck country) and fanbase renergized by a return to prominence I am not OK with their big picture vision at this point. After we win a World Series while we still have Donaldson, teardown restructure, do whatever you want, but for godsakes down squander this opportunity to win now after all this time.

[Spanky99]

Is that right? I thought we weren't paying Upton anything this season.

 

5 million... you'll see the minus 12 million at the bottom. Money owed by other teams.

[Jonn]

Are you kidding me lol

[nutz003]

Some of u guys need to get a grip. This isn't Griffey jr that Atkins passed on. He's a slightly above average player coming off a career year. Given his age and the bloated contracts already on the book to aging players, it's very understandable to look elsewhere.

 

This isn't about strictly Fowler. It is about the way they go about their business in general.

[BTS]

We are in a position now where we have a legitimate chance at a World Series the next two seasons if we fill a couple of needs properly. If we want to rebuild our farm with top level talent than significant trades are probably out of the question, so that leaves Free Agency to fill our needs while this window is still open. I am sorry, but after being a loyal fan from before they won their 2 World Series' and sticking by them through the following 22 years, and finally seeing this city (heck country) and fanbase renergized by a return to prominence I am not OK with their big picture vision at this point. After we win a World Series while we still have Donaldson, teardown restructure, do whatever you want, but for godsakes down squander this opportunity to win now after all this time.

 

I'm not sure what it is you're upset about. What has the team missed out on?

 

Sale - the team didn't have the assets

Eaton - the team probably didn't have the assets

Fowler - signed to play CF for a rumoured 80-90M. What would it have cost to get him to play RF on turf? 90M? 100M?

Chapman - signed for 86M in a city he's played in and enjoyed. How high would the Yankees have gone? How much would it have cost to bring him here? 100M?

[reedjohnsonfan]

We are in a position now where we have a legitimate chance at a World Series the next two seasons if we fill a couple of needs properly. If we want to rebuild our farm with top level talent than significant trades are probably out of the question, so that leaves Free Agency to fill our needs while this window is still open. I am sorry, but after being a loyal fan from before they won their 2 World Series' and sticking by them through the following 22 years, and finally seeing this city (heck country) and fanbase renergized by a return to prominence I am not OK with their big picture vision at this point. After we win a World Series while we still have Donaldson, teardown restructure, do whatever you want, but for godsakes down squander this opportunity to win now after all this time.

 

Totally agree. I am of the belief that sometimes you need to make short term moves which have some degree of risk, especially in the division they are in. They have had a window of opportunity for a few years and in all likelihood it appears to be closing. Maybe they can become competitive again a few years later but that in itself is risky... making solely "safe" moves isn't going to win you anything in this division unless you tank for several years which is a poor idea IMO.

[Spanky99]

We all want to spend money the same way you do. We just want to spend more of it.

 

Well if they still have 25 million to spend... an estimated 167.5 million isn't enough? I'd like them to spend more too, but if you have parameters, you have to be smart about it. People can't point fingers at the FO, it's their job to keep within that payroll frame. Scream at Rogers, I guess.

[RogersCanSuckMyBlank]

Anybody think we have $25M left to spend? I say we don't even reach $155M.

[Grant77]

5 million... you'll see the minus 12 million at the bottom.

 

We paid that last year Spanky. Upton is making closer to 1 million this year from what I've read.

[glory]

If the whining in this thread is any indication, you're absolutely right. Casual fans don't understand that what was going on under AA was not sustainable, and that maintaining a competitive roster while the old/expensive core hits free agency and/or declines was always going to be extremely difficult. Year 1 of turning the roster over was a resounding success, and I'm loving what I'm seeing so far in year 2.

 

Exactly. This is year 2 of the Shapiro regime, and they still don't have a single pitching prospect in AAA. They only have one prospect pegged to start in AAA at all and that's Tellez. When you have an old roster and nothing close in the farm system, it's going to be hard to sustain a winning roster. The Jays still have a chance since the pitching projects to be pretty good and they still have Donaldson and a few others who should provide solid value, but expecting them to not skip a beat based on the way the roster was constructed was foolish. Shapiro is essentially trying to prolong the playoff appearances as much as he can without doubling down on the old regime's short-term mindset. It worked in 2016. Still enough time to fix holes and get it to work in 2017.

[RogersCanSuckMyBlank]

Well if they still have 25 million to spend... an estimated 167.5 million isn't enough? I'd like them to spend more too, but if you have parameters, you have to be smart about it.

$167.5M is plenty ( they won't reach that) but they still don't spend up to there capabilities. Share holders matter more obviously.

[Slade]

Why are people mad at this? You wanted Fowler for 5 years/80 Million?

 

Time to open up trade talks, see what the Pirates what for Cutch now.

[Abomination]

Couldn't agree more. I'm already sick of Shatkins and their ******** corporate speak.

 

Almost all teams operate this way though in general, in all sports. Once in a while you get a situation like Detroit where they take a loss to get something favorable somewhere else (casino in that case), but that's not the norm. The Cards have made unfavorable (with the fans) decisions for years, yet they're regarded as one of the best organizations in baseball. They can make a move like Fowler now because they've made unpopular choices and managed their team responsibly.

[Spanky99]

We paid that last year Spanky. Upton is making closer to 1 million this year from what I've read.

 

Well, RR has them paying him 5 this season. *shrugs*

[Jonn]

Why are people mad at this? You wanted Fowler for 5 years/80 Million?

 

Time to open up trade talks, see what the Pirates what for Cutch now.

 

Exactly.

[Laika]

Totally agree. I am of the belief that sometimes you need to make short term moves which have some degree of risk, especially in the division they are in. They have had a window of opportunity for a few years and in all likelihood it appears to be closing. Maybe they can become competitive again a few years later but that in itself is risky... making solely "safe" moves isn't going to win you anything in this division unless you tank for several years which is a poor idea IMO.

 

The Blue Jays already have an old as f*** team with lots of short term moves in their recent history!

 

Russell Martin was Dexter Fowler two years ago. Tulowitzki could die any day now. Three of the starting rotation make free agent money, and they were all acquired or re-signed by the current FO.

 

The farm was pillaged in the past two years for Tulo, Donaldson, Price (also Hawkins, Lowe, Revere, Pennington, Chavez, Upton, Feldman).

 

Any full-steam-ahead moves right now aren't made in isolation, they would compound upon past transactions.

[Spanky99]

$167.5M is plenty (they won't reach that) but they still don't spend up to there capabilities. Share holders matter more obviously.

 

Why do you say that?

[Grant77]

Well, RR has them paying him 5 this season. *shrugs*

 

It was a total of 5 million between the two seasons so it's less than that either way. Maybe someone can find the true breakdown, but it doesn't matter much to me what payroll is as long as we get the right players.

[RogersCanSuckMyBlank]

Personally I wanted EE because Fowler types in FA are a pipe dream. Now the options are running out.

 

Are you not excited for Moss or Saunders? Maybe a sprinkle of Revere?

[reedjohnsonfan]

The Blue Jays already have an old as f*** team with lots of short term moves in their recent history!

 

Russell Martin was Dexter Fowler two years ago. Tulowitzki could die any day now. Three of the starting rotation make free agent money, and they were all acquired or re-signed by the current FO.

 

The farm was pillaged in the past two years for Tulo, Donaldson, Price (also Hawkins, Lowe, Revere, Pennington, Chavez, Upton, Feldman).

 

Any full-steam-ahead moves right now aren't made in isolation, they would compound upon past transactions.[/QUOTE]

 

Don't think so NJH. They have a bit of payroll space, presumably (if they don't that's a whole different question) to make a decent splash. That would be a short-term move in nature (as we know most FA moves depending on their salary distribution are front heavy in terms of value).

[nutz003]

I'm not sure what it is you're upset about. What has the team missed out on?

 

Sale - the team didn't have the assets

Eaton - the team probably didn't have the assets

Fowler - signed to play CF for a rumoured 80-90M. What would it have cost to get him to play RF on turf? 90M? 100M?

Chapman - signed for 86M in a city he's played in and enjoyed. How high would the Yankees have gone? How much would it have cost to bring him here? 100M?

 

What I am annoyed by is that the offers they seem to put forth (and we seem to hear about them all) are low enough that they know they will not be accepted (or at least they should realize they won't). Fowler seemed to be a guy they really wanted who fit the bill for what they are looking for and they offer him 4 years $60 million, but not enough to get the job done. If they had ponied up to the $18 million per year that was his asking price they possibly could have sealed the deal earlier before the Cards were in the picture. With EE they knew he wouldn't accept 4yrs $80 million w/o testing the market. His market is down and you could probably get him for that or less now, but I honestly don't think the intent was to ever have him back. We will make up for his production with 3 Steve Pearce's instead.

[RogersCanSuckMyBlank]

Why do you say that?

 

Just my speculation. If i remember correctly, Davidi was incorrect last winter about payroll projections? Seriously for a guy connected with the Jays, you'd think he'd be better at breaking news or providing info.

 

Only thing he's good at is reporting call ups and demotions.

[Spanky99]

It was a total of 5 million between the two seasons so it's less than that either way. Maybe someone can find the true breakdown, but it doesn't matter much to me what payroll is as long as we get the right players.

 

I just posted the site with the breakdown?

 

http://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-toronto-blue-jays-info/

[Spanky99]

Just my speculation. If i remember correctly, Davidi was incorrect last winter about payroll projections? Seriously for a guy connected with the Jays, you'd think he'd be better at breaking news or providing info.

 

Only thing he's good at is reporting call ups and demotions.

 

K..............

[Jonn]

Personally I wanted EE because Fowler types in FA are a pipe dream. Now the options are running out.

 

Why is Fowler a pipe dream. St. Louis overpaid to secure him.

[BTS]

What I am annoyed by is that the offers they seem to put forth (and we seem to hear about them all) are low enough that they know they will not be accepted (or at least they should realize they won't). Fowler seemed to be a guy they really wanted who fit the bill for what they are looking for and they offer him 4 years $60 million, but not enough to get the job done. If they had ponied up to the $18 million per year that was his asking price they possibly could have sealed the deal earlier before the Cards were in the picture. With EE they knew he wouldn't accept 4yrs $80 million w/o testing the market. His market is down and you could probably get him for that or less now, but I honestly don't think the intent was to ever have him back. We will make up for his production with 3 Steve Pearce's instead.

 

So you're annoyed at the idea of another team being willing to offer more money to a free agent than Toronto is. Why would that annoy you? It's how free agency works. You place a value on a player, and hope that you can land him. Sometimes you get your guy: Happ, Estrada, Gurriel, Morales, Pearce. Sometimes you don't: Encarnacion (so far), Fowler, probably many others.