Blue Jays 2017 Starting Rotation Discussion

[Angrioter]

Biagini to the minors is a f***ing dumb moron estúpida idea.

 

He stay at MLB team pitching out of the bullpen as a long reliever, and could open one game by month.

[TheHurl]

Is Casey Lawrence on the 40 man an error on the team site or did they add him? He's thrown 480 innings over AA and AAA in the last 3 years but the numbers are far from exciting. You'd think that a non-roster invite would be good enough for him though.

[John_Havok]

Is Casey Lawrence on the 40 man an error on the team site or did they add him? He's thrown 480 innings over AA and AAA in the last 3 years but the numbers are far from exciting. You'd think that a non-roster invite would be good enough for him though.

 

They just re-signed him to a minor league deal with invite to spring training. Not sure why he's showing on the 40 man roster page.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Well, you were wrong. Typically a spot starter is asked to start one game and go back to the pen. That isn't what I had in mind when I referenced the Rays' use of Andriese this year and Ramirez last year. They used those guys as key parts of the pen, and were 100% willing to shift them to a full-time rotation spot if the situation called for it. We saw it with Mike Montgomery too, and it's a bit of a different approach to handling good pen arms.

 

As for your comment about the forum, you've spent the better part of the last 5 years complaining that people are rude when you post stupid things. Here's a tip: nobody values your posts, so you can leave for the facebook or reddit fan pages and not feel bad.

 

Damn ITS at it again, if you hold that last part of your statement up to a mirror how does that reflect about you and not support what he says about this place. You are not the Voice that speaks for how we the BJMB feel or how we act, thankfully!

 

ITS if you Love the Rays so damn much and all they do, please go there! Have a Nice Day!!!

[Brownie19]

Ideally you have Bolsinger and Biagini in AAA as your 6th and 7th. But that means you may have to open the wallet to replace Biagini in the pen....Joe Blanton?

 

I found my own answer - Charlie Morton. Morton slides into Biagini's role out of the pen, but also provides insurance for our rotation. Biagini's given the opportunity to develop in AAA as a starter and Danny Barnes replaces Benoit in the pen.

 

Actually - I'd entertain trading Happ for a younger OF with some years of control (Puig, Conforto, etc.) if we could replace him with a one of Morton, Biagini, Bolsinger. Maybe grab Andrew Cashner too and throw him into the mix!

Edited November 16, 2016 by Brownie19

[Boxcar]

No. As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

Stop scaring good people like RJF away from the board you cretin.

[Pendleton]

I found my own answer - Charlie Morton. Morton slides into Biagini's role out of the pen, but also provides insurance for our rotation. Biagini's given the opportunity to develop in AAA as a starter and Danny Barnes replaces Benoit in the pen.

 

Actually - I'd entertain trading Happ for a younger OF with some years of control (Puig, Conforto, etc.) if we could replace him with a one of Morton, Biagini, Bolsinger. Maybe grab Andrew Cashner too and throw him into the mix!

 

The idea of moving a veteran starter in exchange for Puig has crossed my mind, is it realistic?

[Boxcar]

Well, you were wrong. Typically a spot starter is asked to start one game and go back to the pen. That isn't what I had in mind when I referenced the Rays' use of Andriese this year and Ramirez last year. They used those guys as key parts of the pen, and were 100% willing to shift them to a full-time rotation spot if the situation called for it. We saw it with Mike Montgomery too, and it's a bit of a different approach to handling good pen arms.

 

As for your comment about the forum, you've spent the better part of the last 5 years complaining that people are rude when you post stupid things. Here's a tip: nobody values your posts, so you can leave for the facebook or reddit fan pages and not feel bad.

 

http://rekt.daniguardiola.me/snoop.gif

[Grant77]

I found my own answer - Charlie Morton. Morton slides into Biagini's role out of the pen, but also provides insurance for our rotation. Biagini's given the opportunity to develop in AAA as a starter and Danny Barnes replaces Benoit in the pen.

 

Actually - I'd entertain trading Happ for a younger OF with some years of control (Puig, Conforto, etc.) if we could replace him with a one of Morton, Biagini, Bolsinger. Maybe grab Andrew Cashner too and throw him into the mix!

 

Looks like the Astros found that answer a little before you did.

[Brownie19]

Looks like the Astros found that answer a little before you did.

 

Ah FFS. Although I don't know if I would have given him $14M over 2 years to fill that role. Andrew Cashner it is!

[Grant77]

Ah FFS. Although I don't know if I would have given him $14M over 2 years to fill that role. Andrew Cashner it is!

 

I'd be thinking more like 1/5 if I were the GM.

[Brownie19]

I'd be thinking more like 1/5 if I were the GM.

 

I'd give that to Cashner to see what he could do. Suspect he wants a starting role though.

 

Happ to LA for Puig or Conforto. Cashner as our #5

[Grant77]

I'd give that to Cashner to see what he could do. Suspect he wants a starting role though.

 

Happ to LA for Puig or Conforto. Cashner as our #5

 

I wouldn't explore that kind of trade until we have secured a suitable replacement for Happ. Our depth is already too thin. I like Cashner in the 'pen though.

[Brownie19]

I wouldn't explore that kind of trade until we have secured a suitable replacement for Happ. Our depth is already too thin. I like Cashner in the 'pen though.

 

Meh - If I could get Conforto for Happ, I'd do it in a heartbeat and figure the #5 spot out later. That said, that trade is probably incredibly unrealistic. Puig might not be though.

[Pendleton]

Meh - If I could get Conforto for Happ, I'd do it in a heartbeat and figure the #5 spot out later. That said, that trade is probably incredibly unrealistic. Puig might not be though.

 

There's also possibly Biagini to consider for the 5th starters role.

[RealAccountant]

How many teams in baseball have a rotation as good and as deep as ours? Cleveland maybe? Cubs?

[Grant77]

How many teams in baseball have a rotation as good and as deep as ours? Cleveland maybe? Cubs?

 

Talent and depth are very different. Our depth is Bolsinger, maybe Biagini, and Greene. Not good.

[Brownie19]

Talent and depth are very different. Our depth is Bolsinger, maybe Biagini, and Greene. Not good.

 

I think if you were to compare the Jays depth - while factoring in the quality of their 1-5, you'll find the Jays are near the top of the league.

[Grant77]

I think if you were to compare the Jays depth - while factoring in the quality of their 1-5, you'll find the Jays are near the top of the league.

 

Why does that matter? If someone gets hurt, we have a crap starter that will hurt us every 5 games. Last year was an aberration. We'll be using 8+ starters in 2017 and we need more depth, not less. There are outfielders on the free agent market, so let's look at those first. When Greene and SRF are knocking on the door then maybe we can start to consider trading someone.

[L54]

Rotations + depth I'd take over the Jays off the top of my head

 

Indians

Cubs

Dodgers

Nationals

Mets

[Brownie19]

Why does that matter? If someone gets hurt, we have a crap starter that will hurt us every 5 games. Last year was an aberration. We'll be using 8+ starters in 2017 and we need more depth, not less. There are outfielders on the free agent market, so let's look at those first. When Greene and SRF are knocking on the door then maybe we can start to consider trading someone.

 

I get that - I'm just saying most teams don't have options that are significantly better than Biagini and Bolsinger as there 6th and 7th. You also have to factor in the quality of our starting 5. The #4 and #5 on most teams is a little iffy to start with - if they lose their #2 starter, it would hurt significantly more than if the Jays #2 starter got hurt (whoever you want to pencil in there).

 

I agree we need to add some depth - I'm just saying we aren't too bad and if you could land a young OFer and sell high on Happ - you have to consider that.

[Grant77]

I get that - I'm just saying most teams don't have options that are significantly better than Biagini and Bolsinger as there 6th and 7th. You also have to factor in the quality of our starting 5. The #4 and #5 on most teams is a little iffy to start with - if they lose their #2 starter, it would hurt significantly more than if the Jays #2 starter got hurt (whoever you want to pencil in there).

 

Those are fair points and you are probably right. Still, the great majority of playoff teams DO have good depth in their rotation and good starters 1 through 5. I wouldn't be so eager to sacrifice that if I were the GM. We have our own situation and we need more depth. It doesn't matter to me how we compare to other teams.

 

Reddick + Happ looks much better than Morton + Puig to me.

[Laika]

DEPTH OPTIONS IN FREE AGENCY

 

There aren't many (any) good options on the SP market this year but there is no lack of depth options.

Lots of interesting guys could be had on one year deals, minor league deals, or to pitch out of the bullpen initially (highlighted.)

 

I've mentioned this before but BUD NORRIS is a must-sign in my world. Must sign! But for me I'd like to see him a pure relief role a la Joe Blanton.

 

Tim Lincecum SP

Jhoulys Chacin SP

Jake Peavy SP

Mat Latos SP

C.J. Wilson SP

Andrew Cashner SP

Doug Fister SP

John Danks SP

Ivan Nova SP

Derek Holland SP

Jered Weaver SP

Felix Doubront SP Athletics 1 Minor

Jesse Chavez SP Angels 1 $5.75MM $5.75MM

Jonathon Niese SP

R.A. Dickey SP Braves 1 $8MM $8MM Club

Tommy Milone SP

Ross Detwiler SP

Rich Hill SP

Edinson Volquez SP

Charlie Morton SP Astros 2 $14MM $7MM

Brett Anderson SP

Jorge de la Rosa SP

Jarrod Parker SP

Jeremy Hellickson SP Phillies Yes (Accepted) 1 $17.2MM $17.2MM

Lucas Harrell SP

Matt Harrison SP

Kris Medlen SP

Henderson Alvarez SP

Bartolo Colon SP Braves 1 $12.5MM $12.5MM

Jason Hammel SP

Alfredo Simon SP

Ryan Vogelsong RP / SP

Scott Feldman RP / SP

Sean O'Sullivan RP / SP

Bud Norris RP / SP

Jacob Turner RP / SP

Dillon Gee RP / SP

[Grant77]

Brett Anderson on a minor league deal would make me very happy. I'd also welcome back Feldman.

[Sammy225]

Depending on Med Records Wilson is a very intriguing pitcher. If he is healthy i wouldn't be surprised if he could put up a decent season on a cheap contract. If you can get him for a 2 for 6-7 with a team option it might pay off.

[Brownie19]

Those are fair points and you are probably right. Still, the great majority of playoff teams DO have good depth in their rotation and good starters 1 through 5. I wouldn't be so eager to sacrifice that if I were the GM. We have our own situation and we need more depth. It doesn't matter to me how we compare to other teams.

 

Reddick + Happ looks much better than Morton + Puig to me.

 

We need 2 starting OFers sir. Sign Reddick to platoon with Upton in LF regardless of whether you deal Happ. Now fill RF please - excluding platoon options because there isn't room. The true equation might be Angel Pagan + Happ or Conforto/Puig + Cashner/B.Anderson/Peavy/Wilson/etc.

 

Maybe we are better to keep our starting pitching depth and find an OFer in the dumpster.........but if I can land a young OFer with multiple years of control left and sell High on Happ - I'm all over that...

[Sammy225]

We need 2 starting OFers sir. Sign Reddick to platoon with Upton in LF regardless of whether you deal Happ. Now fill RF please - excluding platoon options because there isn't room. The true equation might be Angel Pagan + Happ or Conforto/Puig + Cashner/B.Anderson/Peavy/Wilson/etc.

 

Maybe we are better to keep our starting pitching depth and find an OFer in the dumpster.........but if I can land a young OFer with multiple years of control left and sell High on Happ - I'm all over that...

 

NOOOOO!!! Because what is going to happen is Zeke is going to get the bulk of playing time forcing me to throw my T.V out the window.

[Brownie19]

NOOOOO!!! Because what is going to happen is Zeke is going to get the bulk of playing time forcing me to throw my T.V out the window.

 

But he's a sparkplug - he makes things happen

[Sammy225]

But he's a sparkplug - he makes things happen

 

Your right he makes me want to vomit when i hear Tabby gushing about him

[Grant77]

We need 2 starting OFers sir. Sign Reddick to platoon with Upton in LF regardless of whether you deal Happ. Now fill RF please - excluding platoon options because there isn't room. The true equation might be Angel Pagan + Happ or Conforto/Puig + Cashner/B.Anderson/Peavy/Wilson/etc.

 

Maybe we are better to keep our starting pitching depth and find an OFer in the dumpster.........but if I can land a young OFer with multiple years of control left and sell High on Happ - I'm all over that...

 

Are we really selling high? This is the new Happ and I don't think he's going to regress. Nobody will pay for wins if that's what you expect, especially not the Dodgers.

 

There are always outfielders available for reasonable prices on the trade market and we have other assets to use. Creating a hole that is difficult to fill in order to address a weakness that is easy to fix is a stupid move for a contending team.

 

Look at last year's offseason for a frame of reference. Decent pitchers like Happ (Miller and Leake) cost an arm and a leg while impact outfielders (Trumbo, Dickerson, Fowler) are readily available. It's the same every year.