Atkins and Shapiro (and LaCava) appreciation and transaction review

[Governator]

I meant as a 4th OF type. Carrera has been replacement-level over almost 300 PA and then there was the Junior Lake debacle, and there was always the option of DHing Bautista/Saunders if the team had a capable OF replacement. Pre-2016 Revere likely has 1-2 wins without taking playing time away from Saunders.

 

I do think the situation has been corrected with Upton though.

 

 

Revere has a 48 wRC+ in 340 PA.

[flafson]

Who knew Revere would be this bad? At the time I was sad to let him go but at hindsight it was a great move.

[BigCecil]

I agree with most of the comments here on their performance thus far.

 

I'm not ready to jump fully on their bandwagon yet...as others have mentioned a lot of the better moves were set up for them. I'm most interested in this off season and how they handle Saunders, Jose and Edwin etc. This team has a solid core but is going to need a lot of work and to me its the first true test for these guys.

 

The Jose situation is getting more interesting. 0.9 WAR. Beltre has put up 4.3 WAR (2/36) as a comparable. I'm actually not convinced now that we won't see one of Jose and/or Edwin back here. I think Bautista has badly hurt his value and its not just injuries. Last time I looked I think he was hitting under .200 on the FB. His LD% is still solid at 18.5% and ironically he has the highest hard contact % of is career 2016. He is worth a reasonable 2 with an option year contract as a DH. Whether he will accept that or not is the question.

[RealAccountant]

Hendriks is an F that is an borderline elite reliever with 4 years of control and now we have nothing

 

Dont sugarcoat this s***

[BTS]

Revere has a 48 wRC+ in 340 PA.

 

I know that. The discussion stemmed from me saying this: "There was no reason to believe that either player was going to fall off a cliff. Although, I do believe that if both Revere and Storen played to their projections, Revere would have been more valuable to this team, and IMO that was obvious at the time."

 

If Revere isn't traded, maybe he doesn't get hurt and has a typical Revere year.

[BTS]

Who knew Revere would be this bad? At the time I was sad to let him go but at hindsight it was a great move.

 

Hard to call it a great move when the guy they got in return blew up just as bad and the salaries were equal. It was a small-scale disaster for both teams, and both would have likely been better off with their own guy.

[AttaBoy]

To all the replies, it was my assessment at the time and of course with added information it will be modified. Thank you for your contributions!

 

I still don't think Hendriks trade was a fail at all, it was a good reliever for a quality reliever/starter... starters have more value than relievers. The deal made sense at the time; we 100% needed the SP depth.

[pickoff22]

Hendriks is an F that is an borderline elite reliever with 4 years of control and now we have nothing

 

Dont sugarcoat this s***

 

Elite is a stretch, but the years of cheap control was always the head scratching component of this trade. Looked bad from the start, ended up being even worse than expected.

[RealAccountant]

Shatkins will make very competent above average moves

 

But they will not hit the homeruns like AA and JP had with Donaldson EE Batista etc. They will also not have huge mistakes like Synder

 

They are just very competent

[puphood]

I agree with most of the comments here on their performance thus far.

 

I'm not ready to jump fully on their bandwagon yet...as others have mentioned a lot of the better moves were set up for them. I'm most interested in this off season and how they handle Saunders, Jose and Edwin etc. This team has a solid core but is going to need a lot of work and to me its the first true test for these guys.

 

The Jose situation is getting more interesting. 0.9 WAR. Beltre has put up 4.3 WAR (2/36) as a comparable. I'm actually not convinced now that we won't see one of Jose and/or Edwin back here. I think Bautista has badly hurt his value and its not just injuries. Last time I looked I think he was hitting under .200 on the FB. His LD% is still solid at 18.5% and ironically he has the highest hard contact % of is career 2016. He is worth a reasonable 2 with an option year contract as a DH. Whether he will accept that or not is the

question.

At present EE will be gone. They blew contract talks this year with him and there are other will to pay big for him. On the other hand if during the pennant run he goes on a big tear and I mean big the fans might demand him back. I see Atkins/Shapiro moveable by public outcry. Batista is interesting in that his value has substantially shrunk over a long term contract so on the outside I could see him sign a short one year deal if he thought he could reverse some of his physical problems in the off season......

[Angrioter]

Only two mistakes for me are the weird Hendriks trade, and being content with Carrera as the 4th OF going into the season. I loved the overall direction of the offseason: patch holes with short free agent deals and don't borrow more from the team's future.

 

The real test will be in the next offseason. The casual fans will hate Shartkins so so much after Bautista and Saunders sign wth other team, and they trade Sanchez for a real young asset.

[BTS]

Shatkins will make very competent above average moves

 

But they will not hit the homeruns like AA and JP had with Donaldson EE Batista etc. They will also not have huge mistakes like Synder

 

They are just very competent

 

I think it's fair to say that they're unlikely to hit the homeruns that come from being more aggressive than almost everyone else (Donaldson) but the other two were just gifts from the baseball gods.

[Grant77]

I think it's fair to say that they're unlikely to hit the homeruns that come from being more aggressive than almost everyone else (Donaldson) but the other two were just gifts from the baseball gods.

 

For all of his faults, Cito was one hell of a hitting coach. I don't think either happens without that coaching staff and a fortunate situation.

[baseballsss]

For all of his faults, Cito was one hell of a hitting coach. I don't think either happens without that coaching staff and a fortunate situation.

 

Cito gets credit for Bautista. EE went to that hitting coach in the Dominican.

[RealAccountant]

Man it's going to be strange seeing the Jays without Batista. For all intent and purposes he represents the Jays that I cheered for the most. Used to be Doc, but I remember really loving this team in two different eras

 

2003 starting with Hallway and 2010 starting with Bautusta

[glory]

The real test will be in the next offseason. The casual fans will hate Shartkins so so much after Bautista and Saunders sign wth other team, and they trade Sanchez for a real young asset.

 

Bautista helped the front office by being a douche in the spring so fans (meaning the casuals) are probably fine with him leaving. It's Edwin that fans will cry about.

 

I actually think Bautista might come back for reasons already mentioned. Apparently Jays are open to a Cespedes type of contract, so if they give JB a high AAV over two years with maybe an option, he might take it given the year he has had.

[TheHurl]

We could also give them a C- on the Smoak extension. It was such an unnecessary move, but at least the value is low enough that it just doesn't matter. Between that, the Upton trade and the attempted Bruce trade it's obvious the FO is super concerned about how few bodies the team has under contract next year.

[Jonn]

The only moves I didn't like was Hendriks for Chavez. And the Smoak extension otherwise everything has been great and we didn't have to give up prospect talent to improve. Infact they managed to improve the farm system while making some key additions.

[jaysblue]

I'd rather the Jays resign Jose Bautista to something like (2/36 or 2/40) with a club option, over handing a 5 year deal to EE at close to $25 million AAV or even more.

[Jonn]

I'd rather the Jays resign Jose Bautista to something like (2/36 or 2/40) with a club option, over handing a 5 year deal to EE at close to $25 million AAV or even more.

 

I doubt Edwin gets anywhere near that kind of money. But sure if that's the scenario sign me up.

[BigCecil]

I'd rather the Jays resign Jose Bautista to something like (2/36 or 2/40) with a club option, over handing a 5 year deal to EE at close to $25 million AAV or even more.

 

I'd be down for that with Jose, but I'm not sure he is lol. He would also need to agree to be a DH most of the time. For all the talk of Edwin's year, his wRC+ is his lowest since 2011 and his K rate is up 5%. Dem RBIs. He will end up with less WAR than 2015.

 

I don't know that Upton is the solution, but I expect this FO to want upgrade the OF defense. Putting Saunders and Jose on either side of Pillar, is like putting ketchup on Fillet Mignon.

[Grant77]

I'd be down for that with Jose, but I'm not sure he is lol. He would also need to agree to be a DH most of the time. For all the talk of Edwin's year, his wRC+ is his lowest since 2011 and his K rate is up 5%. Dem RBIs. He will end up with less WAR than 2015.

 

I don't know that Upton is the solution, but I expect this FO to want upgrade the OF defense. Putting Saunders and Jose on either side of Pillar, is like putting ketchup on Fillet Mignon.

 

If you're getting a middle of the order bat like Jose or Saunders at a reasonable price then I can live with poor D in the corner outfield. Sanchez, Stroman, and Liriano are all 50+ GB% guys and Happ and Estrada haven't obviously suffered from what I've seen.

[FrozenRopes]

This off season will be a much better measuring stick of their work so far.

[Dr Negative]

Any international guys worth going after in the outfield? Can't see much on the free agent market tbh since I don't like Reddick at all.

[nmrch]

I doubt Edwin gets anywhere near that kind of money. But sure if that's the scenario sign me up.

 

Chris Davis had a worse track record than Edwin did and he got 7 years 170, that's 24.3 million AAV. Edwin is 3 years older but he should be able to get 5 years at that AAV, i'm thinking 5 years 110 is the absolute floor.

[nmrch]

We could also give them a C- on the Smoak extension. It was such an unnecessary move, but at least the value is low enough that it just doesn't matter. Between that, the Upton trade and the attempted Bruce trade it's obvious the FO is super concerned about how few bodies the team has under contract next year.

 

Yeah the money doesn't matter but that's an F grade right there, Smoak is useless and has always been useless, that's a completely unjustifiable signing.

[admin]

Jose is going to be a big issue this offseason. This season will have hurt him a bit, but he'll still think he's a $30M player. I really hope our FO isn't stupid enought o re-sign him to play OF. We have Jose and EE, bother are DH/1B. Wonder if we go for whoever asks for less.

[Grant77]

Any international guys worth going after in the outfield? Can't see much on the free agent market tbh since I don't like Reddick at all.

 

There's Jose Adolis Garcia and Lourdes Gourriel that I know of, but I'm not sure if we could count on either to have an immediate impact.

[RealAccountant]

Pearce would be a great off season target

[glory]

If either one accepts a two year deal, even at a higher salary, I think Shapiro will go for it. The years are more important than the $.