Has your stance on re-signing EE changed?

[GeorgiaPeach]

Attempt to move both Edwin & Jose before the deadline. At the same time Shapiro should be all in on Yulieski Gurriel, recently declared a free agent by MLB. The Gurriels hinted at wanting to stay together, so make a big play on Lourdes following the season when he's not subject to IFA money.

 

If the Jays don't receive suitable offers for Jose or Edwin let them walk at the end of 2016 and net the Comp picks. Yulieski & Lourdes could replace Jose & Edwin on the roster.

 

 

 

2017 Lineup

 

C-Martin

1B-Smoak

2B- Y.Gurriel/Travis

SS- Tulowitzki/L.Gurriel

3B-Donaldson

LF-Saunders/L.Gurriel

CF-Pompey

RF-Pillar/L.Gurriel

DH- L.Gurriel

 

The team gets younger, defence improves, offence I'm assuming takes a slight hit, payroll goes up a bit & the farm gets a big injection if Jose & Edwin are left to walk for Comp picks or we net pieces in trade to pump the farm or roster.

[saskjayfan]

I sure wouldn't want to make the call on either of them. Edwin is hot right now, but the K-rate is still up almost 5%, which is scary on a long- term deal for a DH. Bautista is still very good, but has become a liability in the field and his offense is down a bit.

 

Ugh, both guys are still good. Both are in their mid-30s and starting to show it. Both want expensive long-term deals. We have no internal replacement for either. That's why Shatkins gets paid the big bucks.

 

Eddie's K rate was up a lot at the beginning of last season too. People seem to have forgotten that Eddie didn't have a single at bat in spring training this year. It's not a surprise he was up and down the first month. Eddie's swing is elite. The angles he creates are fantastic. He has a very compact swing with not a lot of wasted movement. Eddie is going be an elite 850+ OPS guy for the next 5 years...book it.

[saskjayfan]

Attempt to move both Edwin & Jose before the deadline. At the same time Shapiro should be all in on Yulieski Gurriel, recently declared a free agent by MLB. The Gurriels hinted at wanting to stay together, so make a big play on Lourdes following the season when he's not subject to IFA money.

 

If the Jays don't receive suitable offers for Jose or Edwin let them walk at the end of 2016 and net the Comp picks. Yulieski & Lourdes could replace Jose & Edwin on the roster.

 

 

 

2017 Lineup

 

C-Martin

1B-Smoak

2B- Y.Gurriel/Travis

SS- Tulowitzki/L.Gurriel

3B-Donaldson

LF-Saunders/L.Gurriel

CF-Pompey

RF-Pillar/L.Gurriel

DH- L.Gurriel

 

The team gets younger, defence improves, offence I'm assuming takes a slight hit, payroll goes up a bit & the farm gets a big injection if Jose & Edwin are left to walk for Comp picks or we net pieces in trade to pump the farm or roster.

 

Jose and Edwin can block all trades. What makes you think they would want to leave a team that is in a playoff position to help out Shapiro?

[Spanky99]

RBI are so pointless when evaluating value. He was hitting under .200 with RISP and getting those RBIs with a 100 ish wRC+.

 

Lets see where he ends up. He is the type of hitter who could stay hot for half a season and get back to the 150 wRC+ elite hitter he has been for us. In which case, he gonna get paid. If he doesn't, there will be lots of talk about aging curves and his decline and all the associated risks = cheaper.

 

p.s Even freakish Papi isn't a 200 wRC+ hitter and I'm calling a tough 2nd half for him.

 

EE's ISO wOBA and wRC+ is climbing like King Kong on a side mountain... these numbers need to be evaluated at 162, period.

[saskjayfan]

That will never happen.

 

Ok...I'll let's make a bet. In 5 years when we can settle the bet, I will have probably forgotten about it so I won't be able to collect.

[wamco]

Jose and Edwin can block all trades. What makes you think they would want to leave a team that is in a playoff position to help out Shapiro?

 

--so they could go to a contender And not have a draft pick compensation tied to them. What's the argument to stay if Jay's are out of it ?

[Spanky99]

Attempt to move both Edwin & Jose before the deadline. At the same time Shapiro should be all in on Yulieski Gurriel, recently declared a free agent by MLB. The Gurriels hinted at wanting to stay together, so make a big play on Lourdes following the season when he's not subject to IFA money.

 

If the Jays don't receive suitable offers for Jose or Edwin let them walk at the end of 2016 and net the Comp picks. Yulieski & Lourdes could replace Jose & Edwin on the roster.

 

 

 

2017 Lineup

 

C-Martin

1B-Smoak

2B- Y.Gurriel/Travis

SS- Tulowitzki/L.Gurriel

3B-Donaldson

LF-Saunders/L.Gurriel

CF-Pompey

RF-Pillar/L.Gurriel

DH- L.Gurriel

 

The team gets younger, defence improves, offence I'm assuming takes a slight hit, payroll goes up a bit & the farm gets a big injection if Jose & Edwin are left to walk for Comp picks or we net pieces in trade to pump the farm or roster.

 

That will never happen Chris, ever.

[Spanky99]

Ok...I'll let's make a bet. In 5 years when we can settle the bet, I will have probably forgotten about it so I won't be able to collect.

 

lol

[saskjayfan]

--so they could go to a contender And not have a draft pick compensation tied to them. What's the argument to stay if Jay's are out of it ?

 

The Jays won't be out of it. They both love the Jays and are loyal to their teammates. Jose think's he's worth 25 mil a year on a multi year deal. You think he's worried about a team not coughing up the dough because of the draft pick? They aren't going anywhere unless the jays have some serious injury issues that cause them to drop out of the race.

[sawyerford]

Would rather sign EE over Bautista. Don't think Bautista will go to BOS, my bet is LAD or a NL team, don't see him going to BOS because he sucks out in OF and is asking for way too much. If EE leaves he will most likely end up in BOS. But still i doubt they will sign him to a huge contract.

 

 

Sign Reddick this offseason to replace Bautista and re-sign EE. Or re sign Bautista move him to 1B and put Pompey in OF.

[Key22]

So my question is this. The team is pretty decent - certainly a team with the chance of the playoffs. We have a solid core of starters and players like JD, Pillar, Travis, Saunders, Martin, Tulo, Goins and Barney and Carerra. Stand out defense and complimentary pieces - good fourth outfielders back up infielders, MVP - good outfield defense and up the middle defense in the top 3-4 in baseball. Add in Stroman/Happ/Estrada/Sanchez - that's a real nice four going into 2017 with at lease some positives in the bullpen.

 

So say we let Bautista, EE, and Dickey leave.

 

How do we remain a contending club with a pretty terrible free agent market? Do you guys think we should alter the team a little and add pitching and bolster the pen with the freed up funds? Convert to a pitching and defense style team. But will this work in the AL East? Tampa does this but it hasn't really worked. Pitching with one big hitting 3B (see a resemblance??) Without JB and EE I worry the offense will take a crushing blow since opposing teams will just walk JD all the time.

 

Some of you know the farm system well - are there any bats ready to walk in here and actually contribute? People mentioning guys like Braun - is he someone to target and do we have anything to offer?

[burlingtonbandit]

The Blue Jays should have a lot more money to spend next offseason if they stay in the race all year. Sell out against the Phillies on a Tuesday and they got 35K last night. Add in the face they are doing dynamic pricing and thats a few extra 10s of millions in revenue compared to last season.

 

TV ratings have been really strong as well.

[Maahfaace]

The Blue Jays should have a lot more money to spend next offseason if they stay in the race all year. Sell out against the Phillies on a Tuesday and they got 35K last night. Add in the face they are doing dynamic pricing and thats a few extra 10s of millions in revenue compared to last season.

 

TV ratings have been really strong as well.

 

Spending more is only true if you believe rogers will actually spend the extra revenue. More likely scenario leaner years ahead while shatkins rebuilds the farm to his liking.

[Grant77]

So my question is this. The team is pretty decent - certainly a team with the chance of the playoffs. We have a solid core of starters and players like JD, Pillar, Travis, Saunders, Martin, Tulo, Goins and Barney and Carerra. Stand out defense and complimentary pieces - good fourth outfielders back up infielders, MVP - good outfield defense and up the middle defense in the top 3-4 in baseball. Add in Stroman/Happ/Estrada/Sanchez - that's a real nice four going into 2017 with at lease some positives in the bullpen.

 

So say we let Bautista, EE, and Dickey leave.

 

How do we remain a contending club with a pretty terrible free agent market? Do you guys think we should alter the team a little and add pitching and bolster the pen with the freed up funds? Convert to a pitching and defense style team. But will this work in the AL East? Tampa does this but it hasn't really worked. Pitching with one big hitting 3B (see a resemblance??) Without JB and EE I worry the offense will take a crushing blow since opposing teams will just walk JD all the time.

 

Some of you know the farm system well - are there any bats ready to walk in here and actually contribute? People mentioning guys like Braun - is he someone to target and do we have anything to offer?

 

The simple truth is that we probably won't contend for a playoff spot without JB and EE. I'll be pretty upset if Shapiro makes us a middling 80 win team again with no clear plan, but I have faith in him for now.

[RealAccountant]

The Blue Jays should have a lot more money to spend next offseason if they stay in the race all year. Sell out against the Phillies on a Tuesday and they got 35K last night. Add in the face they are doing dynamic pricing and thats a few extra 10s of millions in revenue compared to last season.

 

TV ratings have been really strong as well.

 

Rogers will not correlate on and off field success to the prospective budget.

 

They need the Jays money to invest more in hockey. More analysts more ducks vs sharks games more more more

[BTS]

The simple truth is that we probably won't contend for a playoff spot without JB and EE. I'll be pretty upset if Shapiro makes us a middling 80 win team again with no clear plan, but I have faith in him for now.

 

It's hard to see where things should go next year when the only bankable production in the projected 2017 lineup is Donaldson, Pillar, and maybe Travis. That's a lot of questions.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Jose and Edwin can block all trades. What makes you think they would want to leave a team that is in a playoff position to help out Shapiro?

 

Then they need to be shown the door at the end of the season.

 

There's no reason the Jays should be dumping close to, or in excess of 20m+ per into DH's & 1B types.

[Dr. Dinger]

Then they need to be shown the door at the end of the season.

 

There's no reason the Jays should be dumping close to, or in excess of 20m+ per into DH's & 1B types.

 

Winning is a reason.

[Grant77]

It's hard to see where things should go next year when the only bankable production in the projected 2017 lineup is Donaldson, Pillar, and maybe Travis. That's a lot of questions.

 

I think if JB and EE aren't resigned or replaced with similar players then we have to seriously consider dealing off some short term assets like Estrada in the offseason.

 

The contention window is clearly still open with a lot of the current team returning, but either you go for it or make a clear effort to reload for a couple of seasons.

[BTS]

I think if JB and EE aren't resigned or replaced with similar players then we have to seriously consider dealing off some short term assets like Estrada in the offseason.

 

The contention window is clearly still open with a lot of the current team returning, but either you go for it or make a clear effort to reload for a couple of seasons.

 

The most interesting question in the case that EE and Bautista walk is regarding Donaldson: extend or trade?

[BigCecil]

2016 Jays WAR:

 

Jose Bautista 0.9

Edwin 0.9

ZEKE 0.8

 

LONG way to go in this season for these numbers to change, but when you factor in aging curves and $40mm "ish" per for these two in 2017, its starts to paint the picture of what a gamble this is for mgm. These two have just not been very good this year yet. Edwin has been raking lately so lets hope they both get hot.

Edited June 15, 2016 by BigCecil
took out hyphens

[BTS]

Heh, I was pretty angry when Zeke was carried as the 4th OF, but credit where it's due: he's done a nice job this year.

[Grant77]

The most interesting question in the case that EE and Bautista walk is regarding Donaldson: extend or trade?

 

I would look to extend Donaldson, even if we opt for a short rebuild. We're looking at least 7 years, so he fits into our long term outlook and provides a lot of stability.

[Governator]

2016 Jays WAR:

 

Jose Bautista -0.9

Edwin - 0.9

ZEKE - 0.8

 

LONG way to go in this season for these numbers to change, but when you factor in aging curves and $40mm "ish" per for these two in 2017, its starts to paint the picture of what a gamble this is for mgm. These two have just not been very good this year yet. Edwin has been raking lately so lets hope they both get hot.

 

Hyphens are a terrible way to separate names and WAR lol.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Winning is a reason.

 

If it means short term gain for long term loss, no thanks.

[Frenchsoup]

Heh, I was pretty angry when Zeke was carried as the 4th OF, but credit where it's due: he's done a nice job this year.

 

He's been amazing! Still a s***** baseball player though, would never trust him in a tight situation.

[xposbrad]

Signing JB/EE are tough decisions. There's not much in the FA market, the Jays don't have much in the system to replace them or even make a trade either. But I am extremely hesitant to commit more than 2 years to either of them because of their ages. JB is asking for crazy money, and thankfully this team did not commit that at the beginning of the year. I know short term we have to resign them, but long term, this team is better off trading them even if they are in the hunt. If we had a stacked system, with replacements 1 year away, we wouldn't even be having this convo. But we don't, and the jays are in a tough jam with those 2. If Shapiro can trade them for top prospects, then I would be all for it, this team desperately needs that.

[saskjayfan]

Then they need to be shown the door at the end of the season.

 

There's no reason the Jays should be dumping close to, or in excess of 20m+ per into DH's & 1B types.

giv

 

I value offense more than some it would appear. I think Edwin is a top 10 bat in the AL and expect him to be in that top 10 for the next 4 years. I would pay him 17 mil per year for 4 years in a heart beat. I also have no problem with Rogers increasing payroll, but some don't want poor rogers to spend the revenue generated by a winning team. I would hope they sign at least one of Edwin or Jose. Obviously the team can't give in to ridiculous demands, but if a deal can be struck and you have to pay a bit more than you might want to I would do it. If the dollars are significantly higher, you would have to walk. I hope a reasonable deal can be struck with one of these players.

[BigCecil]

Hyphens are a terrible way to separate names and WAR lol.

 

why? I don't get it. what am I missing Gov?

[BigCecil]

Heh, I was pretty angry when Zeke was carried as the 4th OF, but credit where it's due: he's done a nice job this year.

 

Me as well. He has done a hell of a job overall.