General 2016 Blue Jays discussion thread

[jb22]

Syndergaard is young and good, Dickey is old and mediocre...

 

Ya he was mediocre as f***, just happened to win the cy right before

[wamco]

But isn't that exactly why those players are overrated? There were so many "stars" because a lot of the players in the league weren't very good. So the players that actually were good at baseball just dominated everyone else.

 

 

 

I don't think those guys would be stars if they played in the 50s-now.

 

My opinion is that guys in the early 1900s wouldn't hold up to today's standards. I understand that some of you might say i'm an idiot, but we'll never really know unless someone invents time travel.

 

Those guys are all hall of famers because they dominated during the time they played. I'm fine with that. I just don't think they should be compared to today's players.

 

-Bill James feels that the early 20th century players would be crushed if dropped into today's games AND today's players would be crushed if dropped into early 20th century baseball. Imagine Saunders this year in the field with the glorified mitton he could use in the field in 1915.

 

Re: Ted ballgame , my son was confused as hell when I excitedly recently bought a framed Red Sox picture of Ted Williams to hang next to my ty Cobb picture, for a good read on him check out terrible beauty out last year.. I had to go to baseball reference and show him all the black ink. He also should have had more Mvp. Off top of my head I think he had triple crown and didn't get one but Phil rizuto beat him for one.

[thatoneguy]

Ted won two triple crowns (42 and 47).

[Jimcanuck]

The craziest Ted Williams statistic is not the .406 average in 1941

 

It's the .482 career OBP..... that's right, for his entire career, he got on base at roughly a 50% clip

[Governator]

Jays now have the second highest run differential in the AL (behind Cleveland) @ +62.

[Jonn]

Jays now have the second highest run differential in the AL (behind Cleveland) @ +62.

 

So in other words things are starting to normalize. I'm going to enjoy the large summer crowds.

[Terminator]

So in other words things are starting to normalize. I'm going to enjoy the large summer crowds.

 

Yeah this season is becoming quite enjoyable after a pretty slow start. Should be a fun ride the rest of the way. Winning another AL East crown would be fantastic.

[Terminator]

Jays now the (weak) favorite to win the division according to fangraphs. This is the first time all season.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/coolgraphs.aspx?lg=AL&div=E&stat=div

[banned]

Have to give credit to Zeke. He has done a great job filling in hitting lead-off, having great at bats.

[fatcowxlive]

Guys Donaldson is a beast. I thought Bautista was going to be the best offensive Jays player I've seen (I only saw Delgado in 03/04, granted he did well those 2 seasons), but Donaldson is something else. My goodness. How on earth did we get him for only Lawrie and Graveman. He's on pace to match or even exceed last year, no? When can we extend him please????

[mellowgold]

Guys Donaldson is a beast. I thought Bautista was going to be the best offensive Jays player I've seen (I only saw Delgado in 03/04, granted he did well those 2 seasons), but Donaldson is something else. My goodness. How on earth did we get him for only Lawrie and Graveman. He's on pace to match or even exceed last year, no? When can we extend him please????

 

Yep. I've been thinking about this lately but 2016 JD >> 2015 JD and it's really not that close. That is absolutely freaking terrifying if you're the rest of the AL.

 

His BB% has improved by 4.6%...that is huge. K% has decreased by 2%. OBP up by .044; SLG up by .034. wOBA up by .027. ISO up by .027.

You get the picture. He's gotta be the frontrunner again for MVP at this point. Currently tied with Trout for first with 5.1 WAR and is on pace to finish at 9.8.

 

It's pretty insane to think that this guy has improved on arguably the best year in Jays history. I realize there's still almost half a season left but to me it just looks like he's getting better and better almost daily.

[HERPDERP]

Yep. I've been thinking about this lately but 2016 JD >> 2015 JD and it's really not that close. That is absolutely freaking terrifying if you're the rest of the AL.

 

His BB% has improved by 4.6%...that is huge. K% has decreased by 2%. OBP up by .044; SLG up by .034. wOBA up by .027. ISO up by .027.

You get the picture. He's gotta be the frontrunner again for MVP at this point. Currently tied with Trout for first with 5.1 WAR and is on pace to finish at 9.8.

 

It's pretty insane to think that this guy has improved on arguably the best year in Jays history. I realize there's still almost half a season left but to me it just looks like he's getting better and better almost daily.

 

I feel like his defense has also improved. I haven't checked the metrics right now but in terms of throwing, I can't recall the last time his throwing was way off the mark like it has been in previous years.

[dineke]

Jays now have the second highest run differential in the AL (behind Cleveland) @ +62.

 

Mark Shapiro building dynasties in multiple places.

[G-Snarls]

Guys Donaldson is a beast. I thought Bautista was going to be the best offensive Jays player I've seen (I only saw Delgado in 03/04, granted he did well those 2 seasons), but Donaldson is something else. My goodness. How on earth did we get him for only Lawrie and Graveman. He's on pace to match or even exceed last year, no? When can we extend him please????

 

Best all around position player the Jays have ever had?

 

He's up there with Alomar and I'd say better. Donaldson does this for 6-7more years and he's a HOFer. (He's already had 3 1/2 awesome years). Only problem is he started a bit late and how will he hold up...

 

Delgado was an awesome hitter but didn't provide value in defense the way Donaldson and Alomar do.

[G-Snarls]

Mark Shapiro building dynasties in multiple places.

 

Epstein-esque

[Captain Adama]

Best all around position player the Jays have ever had?

 

He's up there with Alomar

 

Delgado was an awesome hitter but didn't provide value in defense the way Donaldson and Alomar do.

 

Technically by the numbers alomar wasn't a great defensive player either.

[G-Snarls]

Technically by the numbers alomar wasn't a great defensive player either.

 

I wish current metrics could be used on players from that era.

[fatcowxlive]

Yep. I've been thinking about this lately but 2016 JD >> 2015 JD and it's really not that close. That is absolutely freaking terrifying if you're the rest of the AL.

 

His BB% has improved by 4.6%...that is huge. K% has decreased by 2%. OBP up by .044; SLG up by .034. wOBA up by .027. ISO up by .027.

You get the picture. He's gotta be the frontrunner again for MVP at this point. Currently tied with Trout for first with 5.1 WAR and is on pace to finish at 9.8.

 

It's pretty insane to think that this guy has improved on arguably the best year in Jays history. I realize there's still almost half a season left but to me it just looks like he's getting better and better almost daily.

 

Man back to back MVPs would almost be as good as those back to back WS in terms of franchise milestones. He'd forever be engraved in Blue Jays history. I hope we can bring a ring home this year

[fatcowxlive]

Best all around position player the Jays have ever had?

 

He's up there with Alomar and I'd say better. Donaldson does this for 6-7more years and he's a HOFer. (He's already had 3 1/2 awesome years). Only problem is he started a bit late and how will he hold up...

 

Delgado was an awesome hitter but didn't provide value in defense the way Donaldson and Alomar do.

 

We need to extend him so we can get our 3rd HOFer in!!!

[BigCecil]

Man back to back MVPs would almost be as good as those back to back WS in terms of franchise milestones. He'd forever be engraved in Blue Jays history. I hope we can bring a ring home this year

 

I'd take a 3rd WS ring over individual awards times infinity(that's what my kid says). The individual stuff means little to me after the black hole from 94-2014 where all we had to get behind were some individual honours. 2015 reminded me of what it's all about and i'm hungry for that kind of excitement again this year.

[Governator]

Man back to back MVPs would almost be as good as those back to back WS in terms of franchise milestones. He'd forever be engraved in Blue Jays history. I hope we can bring a ring home this year

 

Clemens did back to back Cy Young's, he's barely mentioned. Individual awards are no where near as valuable to a city as championships.

[G-Snarls]

Clemens did back to back Cy Young's, he's barely mentioned. Individual awards are no where near as valuable to a city as championships.

 

Doc deserved a WS and never got one here or in Philly

[burlingtonbandit]

We need to extend him so we can get our 3rd HOFer in!!!

 

His agent is one of the sleeziest in MLB so I wouldn't hold my breath for an extension. They talked about one this past offseason and he's only gotten better so his price surely has gone up. They are probably asking for a Miguel Cabrera type contract +inflation.

[G-Snarls]

His agent is one of the sleeziest in MLB so I wouldn't hold my breath for an extension. They talked about one this past offseason and he's only gotten better so his price surely has gone up. They are probably asking for a Miguel Cabrera type contract +inflation.

 

Well he's reasonably priced for 2016 and 2017, they can hang on to him for likely 20ish M in arbitration for 2018. I'm happy with that for now. Lots of time to talk extension.

 

Yes, I'd love to hang on to him for longer if possible. These are his best years, though, right now.

[G-Snarls]

Brett Lawrie has been a nearly league average hitter 98 wRC+ and on pace for 2 WAR this year

 

Looked up out of curiosity

[Dick_Pole]

We need to extend him so we can get our 3rd HOFer in!!!

 

Alomar spent only 5 years here. Assuming the Jays let Donaldson run out his contract he'll have 4 here, a couple of years in Oakland and presumably several more years somewhere else that won't be as good as his run here. If he was to be inducted into the HOF with, say, 70 WAR and 30-35 of it was achieved with the Jays, isn't that enough to slot his entry as a Jay?

[G-Snarls]

Alomar spent only 5 years here. Assuming the Jays let Donaldson run out his contract he'll have 4 here, a couple of years in Oakland and presumably several more years somewhere else that won't be as good as his run here. If he was to be inducted into the HOF with, say, 70 WAR and 30-35 of it was achieved with the Jays, isn't that enough to slot his entry as a Jay?

 

Doesn't the player decide what team they want to go in under?

[Daniel Labude]

Doesn't the player decide what team they want to go in under?

 

HOF does, but the player can give his input.

[G-Snarls]

HOF does, but the player can give his input.

 

It's like a Hogwarts/Cooperstown sorting hat type thing then? (joke)

 

Didn't know that the HOF had final say (thank you)

[Dick_Pole]

It's like a Hogwarts/Cooperstown sorting hat type thing then? (joke)

 

Didn't know that the HOF had final say (thank you)

 

IIRC I think the rule was changed after TB tried to buy their way into Cooperstown through Boggs. Could have been Clemens with the Yankees as well. I dunno, the late 90's/early 2000's was such an immoral time for the MLB