General 2016 Blue Jays discussion thread

[G-Snarls]

I don't understand why everyone is so up in arms about bringing back Thole. He's obviously insurance in case (heaven forbid) Dickey needs to start during the post season. Cross your t's and dot your i's. There is nothing wrong we being prepared, which is literally all they're doing.

 

Agreed

 

This FO is comfortably obsessed with depth

 

I like it

[KingKat]

Way too much energy is spent in these lineup debates. Just bat your good hitters at the top of the order back to back, stick the players who can't hit at the bottom, and break up lefties if possible so opposing managers can't abuse LOOGYs. It isn't rocket science.

 

It's also not very impactful. It's one of those confirmation biases thing. You notice when a bad hitter comes up in a big spot that he wouldn't otherwise but you don't notice the times when a big spot is created out of nothing for a good hitter despite being in the wrong lineup spot. It's better to have an optimal lineup over a non-optimal one long term but it's a marginal improvement. Bill James himself said that a sub-optimal lineup that makes your players happy is preferable to an optimal one that might not. It's one of most debated yet least important things baseball fans argue about. I remember getting so invested in these debates like 10 years ago. I would scribble my own lineups all the time. Now I couldn't care less.

[Terminator]

It's also not very impactful. It's one of those confirmation biases thing. You notice when a bad hitter comes up in a big spot that he wouldn't otherwise but you don't notice the times when a big spot is created out of nothing for a good hitter despite being in the wrong lineup spot. It's better to have an optimal lineup over a non-optimal one long term but it's a marginal improvement. Bill James himself said that a sub-optimal lineup that makes your players happy is preferable to an optimal one that might not. It's one of most debated yet least important things baseball fans argue about. I remember getting so invested in these debates like 10 years ago. I would scribble my own lineups all the time. Now I couldn't care less.

 

Yeah there is definitely a lot of truth to that but it's an easy thing to look at to see how statistically involved your manager is. When he's batting one of your top 5 or 6 hitters #9 it's kind of a red flag.

[BigCecil]

What did people think of Sanchez's start last night? 3 BB's and only 2K's against a very tough line up. I thought he got squeezed a bit on calls that Gallardo got.

 

He didn't give up any earned runs...I thought his breaking ball (which he needs for LHH badly) wasn't bad. There wasn't much hard contact. Looked like his FB and change command really wasn't there as much as it has been.

 

Hard to complain about no runs over 6 IP vs O's?

[Jimcanuck]

What did people think of Sanchez's start last night? 3 BB's and only 2K's against a very tough line up. I thought he got squeezed a bit on calls that Gallardo got.

 

He didn't give up any earned runs...I thought his breaking ball (which he needs for LHH badly) wasn't bad. There wasn't much hard contact. Looked like his FB and change command really wasn't there as much as it has been.

 

Hard to complain about no runs over 6 IP vs O's?

 

He wasn't sharp but still go the job done. What ace calibre pitchers do.

 

By the 6th he was practically falling down after every pitch. But Gibby the hick left him in.

[BigCecil]

Really want to see Barnes given some innings this Sept. I know he had mixed results in his only call up, but his stuff looks legit.

 

Not a big believer in the resurrection of Benoit yet. Wouldn't mind the BBs so much if the 6/9 K rate was higher.

[King]

Really want to see Barnes given some innings this Sept. I know he had mixed results in his only call up, but his stuff looks legit.

 

Not a big believer in the resurrection of Benoit yet. Wouldn't mind the BBs so much if the 6/9 K rate was higher.

 

2 good outings and one poor one

[Seanie]

What did people think of Sanchez's start last night? 3 BB's and only 2K's against a very tough line up. I thought he got squeezed a bit on calls that Gallardo got.

 

He didn't give up any earned runs...I thought his breaking ball (which he needs for LHH badly) wasn't bad. There wasn't much hard contact. Looked like his FB and change command really wasn't there as much as it has been.

 

Hard to complain about no runs over 6 IP vs O's?

 

Considering the O's strike-out more than average I would have liked to see more strike-outs but if he's generating ground balls like he has been all year that's okay with me.

 

In any case, what they did with Sanchez is worse for injury risk than just leaving him in the rotation. Instead of his arm being used to the start every 5th/6th day now his arm "dried up" and more likely to "snap" like an old elastic, and I don't think throwing a few simulated pitches helps that. This was even evident in the 6th inning when he was running out of gas. IMO this is all for optics but it's worse for Sanchez.

[Terminator]

Really want to see Barnes given some innings this Sept. I know he had mixed results in his only call up, but his stuff looks legit.

 

Not a big believer in the resurrection of Benoit yet. Wouldn't mind the BBs so much if the 6/9 K rate was higher.

 

Agreed. Benoit makes me really nervous.

[G-Snarls]

Please rank the Blue Jays bullpen arms in declining level of trust

[Terminator]

Please rank the Blue Jays bullpen arms in declining level of trust

 

That's a good idea. Can be based off of numbers or completely subjective. We should make a new thread for that though.

[G-Snarls]

That's a good idea. Can be based off of numbers or completely subjective. We should make a new thread for that though.

 

Done

[Seanie]

Agreed. Benoit makes me really nervous.

 

His k/bb rate in Toronto are too small of a sample to be used as evidence in any type of conjecture. His velocity is still there. His k rate in Seattle was there. Barring injury (as I previously stated he had shoulder issues earlier in the year) there's no reason to think his command and stuff has suddenly dropped off. Most likely he's the same pitcher he has been the last few years. Which is pretty good with me.

[BigCecil]

Can we have 2015 Cecil back for the run please? That feeling when he came out of the pen last half of the year was total confidence in a lights out performance.

 

Blue Jays counting on Cecil

 

Ben Nicholson-Smith September 1, 2016, 8:20 AM

 

BALTIMORE – The deadline for adding postseason-eligible players passed quietly for the Toronto Blue Jays, so it looks like Brett Cecil or bust when it comes to left-handed relief.

 

On paper that’s a potential weakness considering Cecil has a 4.82 ERA with five home runs allowed in 28 innings. Blue Jays pitching coach Pete Walker doesn’t see it that way.

 

“His stuff is as good right now as it was last year,” Walker said. “I think a lot of times it’s been pitch selection with him.”

 

Walker points to a change-up Jose Ramirez hit in Cleveland and a fastball Kendrys Morales hit in Kansas City as examples of ill-advised pitches.

 

“You take those couple of pitches out and over the last month, his stuff has been very good,” Walker said. "He’s had some at bats where it’s dominant.”

 

The Blue Jays are expected to call up relief help Friday, their first chance to add reinforcements after rosters expanded Thursday. Left-handers Aaron Loup and Chad Girodo figure to be among those earning consideration for call-ups, but Cecil’s clearly the number one lefty.

 

“We certainly think he can help in high-leverage situations down the stretch and I think he’s going to come up big for us,” Walker said.

 

With plenty of moments ahead against left-handed hitters like Chris Davis, David Ortiz and Brian McCann, the Blue Jays will be counting on it.

[43211234]

Alex Cobb makes his return from TJS against the Blue Jays tomorrow night.

 

Then it's Chris Archer on Saturday.

[LGBJ29]

The s***** thing about the 6 man is we have our 3 best starters lined up during the week consistently, and then the other 3 on the weekend series' (Although Stro has been great recently). It benefitted us in the O's series, but unless Sanchez is pushed back again, next weekend we have Liriano and Dickey going against the Red Sox in a crucial series.

[Jonn]

If Cecil doesn't get back to last year's form not having lefty depth will plague us once again. That's the one move that needed to happen that didn't happen.

[KevinGregg]

If Cecil doesn't get back to last year's form not having lefty depth will plague us once again. That's the one move that needed to happen that didn't happen.

 

Considering we need to drop to 4 starters anyways, I think we might see Liriano take over the #1 lefty role out of the pen

[Angrioter]

Considering we need to drop to 4 starters anyways, I think we might see Liriano take over the #1 lefty role out of the pen

 

A RP who can't throw strikes?

[KevinGregg]

A RP who can't throw strikes?

 

He might have more command just focusing on 2 pitches.

Either way, it might come down to a battle between who is more effective at the time between Cecil and Liriano for that #1 lefty spot. Cecil has certainly done nothing to have that role set in stone for him

[Jonn]

Considering we need to drop to 4 starters anyways, I think we might see Liriano take over the #1 lefty role out of the pen

 

That's only valuable if he throws strikes though.

[BigCecil]

That's only valuable if he throws strikes though.

 

If he has a high K rate out of the pen its easier to live with more BBs. But I agree that a wild Liriano is ulcer causing and can pour gas on a fire.

[KevinGregg]

That's only valuable if he throws strikes though.

 

fully agreed. I am really pulling for Cecil to be everything we know he can be

[Vialotor]

The s***** thing about the 6 man is we have our 3 best starters lined up during the week consistently, and then the other 3 on the weekend series' (Although Stro has been great recently). It benefitted us in the O's series, but unless Sanchez is pushed back again, next weekend we have Liriano and Dickey going against the Red Sox in a crucial series.

Yikes!!

[Terminator]

I don't know if the hurricane is going to affect these games in Tampa or not. They obviously have a dome so the actual play wouldn't be affected but travel could be.

[jaysfan2014]

According to Wilner, the storm isn't going to hit St. Pete..

[vilifyingforce]

What's the chances he can hit lefties?

 

Not a total embarrassment.

 

vs RHP PA 353 .314/.408/.562

vs LHP PA 141 .260/.333/.431

[vilifyingforce]

The key question is, what are his splits? Are these stats available for minor leaguers

 

Can only pull them across all levels by season.

vs RHP PA 126 .262/.289/.365

vs LHP PA 85 .268/.282/.329

[Terminator]

If there's a hurricane, there's a risk this series is moved to a neutral site or Toronto--MLB isn't going to take any chances. However, the storm's expected to be out of Florida by Saturday.

 

Tampa isn't square in the bullseye but they are definitely at risk.

 

http://media.nbcmiami.com/images/1200*675/090116+hurricane+hermine+1.jpg

 

Let's play these games in TO!

[Jonn]

Play em in Montreal!