GDT! Opening Day! Let's Goooo Bluejays!

[Sorrow]

I'd feel a lot more comfortable if Stroman was getting that K-rate into the mid 7s like Gray does or like Doc did when he was the elite of the elite.

[THANOS]

I'd feel a lot more comfortable if Stroman was getting that K-rate into the mid 7s like Gray does or like Doc did when he was the elite of the elite.

 

I understand that shooting for groundballs minimizes his hard hit and homerun rates, but, personally, I really enjoyed his K-rate in the minors and dislike the trade-off. I just don't think that the trade-off is all that smart. I mean, Kershaw compiled 232 IP last year as a strikeout pitcher, so why can't Stroman pitch the way he did in the minors, with that >10 K/9?

[burlingtonbandit]

I understand that shooting for groundballs minimizes his hard hit and homerun rates, but, personally, I really enjoyed his K-rate in the minors and dislike the trade-off. I just don't think that the trade-off is all that smart. I mean, Kershaw compiled 232 IP last year as a strikeout pitcher, so why can't Stroman pitch the way he did in the minors, with that >10 K/9?

 

I don't think its fair to mention any pitcher in the same sentence as Kershaw certainly not Stroman. Its not like Stroman is some 10K/9 pitcher choosing to not strike anyone out. When he came up to the MLB team before he introduced his 2 seamer his K/9 was under 8.

 

I'd rather have an extra 10% GB than a few more strikeouts and HR personally.

[nmrch]

I don't think its fair to mention any pitcher in the same sentence as Kershaw certainly not Stroman. Its not like Stroman is some 10K/9 pitcher choosing to not strike anyone out. When he came up to the MLB team before he introduced his 2 seamer his K/9 was under 8.

 

I'd rather have an extra 10% GB than a few more strikeouts and HR personally.

 

People are ignoring the kind of pitcher Stroman is. He just doesn't have the super elite secondary pitch you need need to rack up those K's, in addition to an elite fastball. Stroman, i think understands what kind of a pitcher he has. He seems to have unusually good command of the sinker/2-seamer, many sinkerballers struggle with command and can't find the strikezone at times. For him the tradeoffs work and he's simply maximizing his talents. If he tried to rack up the K's and rely more on his 4 seamer instead of his 2-seamer/sinker he would be less effective in addition to not going as deep into games as he can now as a sinkerball pitcher.

[93 Jays]

Um, not to say that Stroman didn't have a good performance, but Archer was clearly much more dominant. He got 12 strikeouts againt the best lineup in baseball. His only downfall...was facing the best lineup in baseball lol.

 

He got 12 strikeouts with a LOT of hanging sliders that 2 months from now would have earned him a much earlier exit with 8-10 runs allowed. NOTHING about Archers performance was more dominant. Going into the 9th, if taken out like he should been, he'd have averaged 11.5 pitches per inning with a WHIP barely over 0.50? THAT'S DOMINANT. He kept the rays consistently off balance and they made no hard contact off him whatsoever for 8 innings. Stroman dominated, not archer. He got 12 k's off of guys being rusty and whiffing on sliders that were basically meatballs, left way above the belt on multiple occasions. The only decent k's he had were the few fastballs he kept down when he froze his hitter.

 

Stroman basically breezed through that lineup and threw very few stressful pitches. He was the beast yesterday IMO and I'll take a guy going 8 innings allowing 1 run rather than a guy who struggled all game long and couldn't get to the sixth. Take away the 9th and Stromans start was everything you could ask for and more. Being his first start of the season, he should have been sat down to rest anyhow and enjoy the utter f***ing gem he just pitched

[THANOS]

I don't think its fair to mention any pitcher in the same sentence as Kershaw certainly not Stroman. Its not like Stroman is some 10K/9 pitcher choosing to not strike anyone out. When he came up to the MLB team before he introduced his 2 seamer his K/9 was under 8.

 

I'd rather have an extra 10% GB than a few more strikeouts and HR personally.

 

This was before his 1st call up.

 

http://i.snag.gy/UciLo.jpg

 

He's been a strikeout guy his entire career before getting called up. It's obvious that there was a change of direction/thinking with him, whether it was advice from someone else or his own. Either way, I'm questioning why he made the trade-off? His FIP was still pretty decent with all of those K's and his BB/9 was good as well.

[nmrch]

This was before his 1st call up.

 

http://i.snag.gy/UciLo.jpg

 

He's been a strikeout guy his entire career before getting called up. It's obvious that there was a change of direction/thinking with him, whether it was advice from someone else or his own. Either way, I'm questioning why he made the trade-off? His FIP was still pretty decent with all of those K's and his BB/9 was good as well.

 

He was also an advanced college pitcher. Also, minor league K rate doesn't translate 1 to 1 into the big leagues.

[THANOS]

He was also an advanced college pitcher. Also, minor league K rate doesn't translate 1 to 1 into the big leagues.

 

No, but it shouldn't drop to 6 k/9 either.

[nmrch]

And from what i can remember Stroman started throwing more 2-seamers and sinkers in the second half of a 2014. His K numbers before that weren't elite by any means, his first half K rate in 2014 was 7.93.

[Cyborg]

I'm sure Stroman can start the K's again if he wants. It would just mean less ground balls.

[THANOS]

I'm sure Stroman can start the K's again if he wants. It would just mean less ground balls.

 

Agreed. It's just, for some reason, this conversation changed into whether Stro was capable of being a strikeouts pitcher.

[nmrch]

No, but it shouldn't drop to 6 k/9 either.

 

His true talent K rate at the time of his call up was probably 7.5 to 8. And now he's probably at around 6-6.5, in exchange for those K's he's become an extreme ground baller and the odds on favorite to be the league leader in GB% while walking <2 per 9. Its fine if you don't think that the tradeoff is worth it but if you're under the impression that he was a high strikeout guy before simply based on his minor league numbers, i disagree.

[Cyborg]

His true talent K rate at the time of his call up was probably 7.5 to 8. And now he's probably at around 6-6.5, in exchange for those K's he's become an extreme ground baller and the odds on favorite to be the league leader in GB% while walking <2 per 9. Its fine if you don't think that the tradeoff is worth it but if you're under the impression that he was a high strikeout guy before simply based on his minor league numbers, i disagree.

Ya now that Anderson is injured he does have a shot. Keuchel and Sanchez can challenge.

[THANOS]

His true talent K rate at the time of his call up was probably 7.5 to 8. And now he's probably at around 6-6.5, in exchange for those K's he's become an extreme ground baller and the odds on favorite to be the league leader in GB%. Its fine if you don't think that the tradeoff is worth it but if you're under the impression that he was a high strikeout guy before simply based on his minor league numbers, i disagree.

 

Many strikeout pitchers drop their K-rate by 2 points or so in their 1st season in the MLB, but it begins to climb back in following seasons. This is true with guys like Kershaw, Archer, Kluber, etc. There's also strange cases like deGrom where it increases exponentially in the majors from the minors.

[nmrch]

Many strikeout pitchers drop their K-rate by 2 points or so in their 1st season in the MLB, but it begins to climb back in following seasons. This is true with guys like Kershaw, Archer, Kluber, etc. There's also strange cases like deGrom where it increases exponentially in the majors from the minors.

You're ignoring adjustments for age and experience. I would bet that the projections had Stroman's MLB K rate at 7.5-8 before he was called up.

.

[burlingtonbandit]

This was before his 1st call up.

 

http://i.snag.gy/UciLo.jpg

 

He's been a strikeout guy his entire career before getting called up. It's obvious that there was a change of direction/thinking with him, whether it was advice from someone else or his own. Either way, I'm questioning why he made the trade-off? His FIP was still pretty decent with all of those K's and his BB/9 was good as well.

 

Because he is a better pitcher with more groundballs and less Ks. More or less he is just throwing his 2 seamer instead of his 4 seamer and its the better pitch. He could probably get a few more Ks if he threw his 4 seamer up in the zone but thats also going to cause him to give up more HRs. With how good the Blue Jays defense is I'd say he's more valuable as the groundball version that can go deeper into games.

[HypeLikeJoseCruzJr.]

We're a team ready to win the division, would rather have him inducing ground balls and staying longer in games vs. strikeouts.

 

He's going to need to win 16-18 games if we want to win the AL East.

[Cyborg]

Buck just said that Goins is an average bat because he hit .250 and MLB average is .255. LOL

[93 Jays]

We're a team ready to win the division, would rather have him inducing ground balls and staying longer in games vs. strikeouts.

 

He's going to need to win 16-18 games if we want to win the AL East.

 

Finally, some common sense. I'd much rather have a guy go 8 innings and throw 90 pitches and not strike out ANYONE, than have a guy who throws 50 pitches after 3 and is out of the game after 5. Halladay was a master at that with his two seamer, with 10 pitch after 10 pitch inning allowing him to go deep into games. It allowed his defense to stay on it's toes and saved the bullpen a ton of innings come the end of the year. Same for Marcus. Who cares if he's amongst the K leaders? I'd rather him throw a shitload of easy innings while inducing weak contact.

[LGBJ29]

Finally, some common sense. I'd much rather have a guy go 8 innings and throw 90 pitches and not strike out ANYONE, than have a guy who throws 50 pitches after 3 and is out of the game after 5. Halladay was a master at that with his two seamer, with 10 pitch after 10 pitch inning allowing him to go deep into games. It allowed his defense to stay on it's toes and saved the bullpen a ton of innings come the end of the year. Same for Marcus. Who cares if he's amongst the K leaders? I'd rather him throw a shitload of easy innings while inducing weak contact.

 

thats not a long term solution to success. Obviously everybody would rather have the better end results, but eventually BABIP will catch up to him not striking anyone out. The reason people want strikeouts and a high SwStr% is because it correlated highly with long term success, not because its cooler on the stat sheet

[THANOS]

thats not a long term solution to success. Obviously everybody would rather have the better end results, but eventually BABIP will catch up to him not striking anyone out. The reason people want strikeouts and a high SwStr% is because it correlated highly with long term success, not because its cooler on the stat sheet

 

Thank you.