Edwin not happy with term on Jays offer

[Stangstag]

So sick of hearing this. Like Shapiro is burdened or something. He chose this team and this roster. He knew what he was getting into and he got into it because it's a great situation.

 

If you want to compete, you can compete. If you want to blow it up, you can blow it up and sell off the truckload of talent on this roster and do a HOU/CHC rebuild on steroids.

 

We have the AL MVP under team control for 3 years. Our "worst" contract is like 5/100M for Tulowitzki, which is probably under what he would have got if he were a free agent.

 

You understand that whatever we sign Bautista or Edwin to will immediately become our worst contract though right? And both can't play defense

[Sammy225]

So sick of hearing this. Like Shapiro is burdened or something. He chose this team and this roster. He knew what he was getting into and he got into it because it's a great situation.

 

If you want to compete, you can compete. If you want to blow it up, you can blow it up and sell off the truckload of talent on this roster and do a HOU/CHC rebuild on steroids.

 

We have the AL MVP under team control for 3 years. Our "worst" contract is like 5/100M for Tulowitzki, which is probably under what he would have got if he were a free agent.

 

I am not saying he is hamstrung he is going to have a good team here for a couple years. I am just saying that when he lets Bautista (for sure) and likely EE walk which a lot think is probably the right move he is going to take a lot of abuse, just like when Price walked because the AA ass sniffers know that the lord and savior would never let that happen on his watch.

 

I am one of the few that think AA is severely overrated and i was never a fan of him. He had control for 6 years with the team (started with a 3 year plan) went all in 2 twice selling off a lot of the farm and made the playoffs a whopping 1 time and everyone was lining up to suck him off after it.

 

People tend to forget there was a lot of people wanting him gone before the start of last season. Now the guy could do no wrong. Funny how things work out.

[AdamGreenwood]

This is also absolutely true. Shapiro and Atkins are being hamstrung, as AA was, by an ownership group worth billions that is content to let the Jays sit 14th in payroll in Major League Baseball. Ridiculous.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2016/

 

The goal of a publicly traded company is to make money.

If you want to maximize your chances of winning a title, you need an eccentric billionaire who makes his baseball team his own little vanity project.

[Stangstag]

The goal of a publicly traded company is to make money.

If you want to maximize your chances of winning a title, you need an eccentric billionaire who makes his baseball team his own little vanity project.

 

Why don't more people understand this?

[burlingtonbandit]

I am not saying he is hamstrung he is going to have a good team here for a couple years. I am just saying that when he lets Bautista (for sure) and likely EE walk which a lot think is probably the right move he is going to take a lot of abuse, just like when Price walked because the AA ass sniffers know that the lord and savior would never let that happen on his watch.

 

I am one of the few that think AA is severely overrated and i was never a fan of him. He had control for 6 years with the team (started with a 3 year plan) went all in 2 twice selling off a lot of the farm and made the playoffs a whopping 1 time and everyone was lining up to suck him off after it.

 

People tend to forget there was a lot of people wanting him gone before the start of last season. Now the guy could do no wrong. Funny how things work out.

 

I think Beeston was always the biggest problem. AA working for a president like Shapiro would have been much better. For all we know Beeston was the one pushing the team to go all in. I remember when AA came into the job he talked about building a sustainable winner much like Shapiro has and then all of a sudden that went out the window in 1 offseason.

 

Ultimately I believe the org. is in a better place now but its not because AA was a bad executive. If you were to add him to the current FO the org. would be much better.

[flafson]

I think Beeston was always the biggest problem. AA working for a president like Shapiro would have been much better. For all we know Beeston was the one pushing the team to go all in. I remember when AA came into the job he talked about building a sustainable winner much like Shapiro has and then all of a sudden that went out the window in 1 offseason.

 

Ultimately I believe the org. is in a better place now but its not because AA was a bad executive. If you were to add him to the current FO the org. would be much better.

 

I don't argue with what you say but it's hard to compare apples to apples here.

AA was doing a lot of the things that Shapiro is doing now. Atkins is doing some of the things that AA was doing and some of the things the guys under AA were doing.

[BigCecil]

The goal of a publicly traded company is to make money.

If you want to maximize your chances of winning a title, you need an eccentric billionaire who makes his baseball team his own little vanity project.

 

This is absolutely true. I just have to believe (admittedly havent/can't do the math) that a higher payroll, if required, could see a very beneficial financial return in a country geared up to support the Jays from coast to coast. But I'm sure Rogers has crunched all the numbers.

[flafson]

This is absolutely true. I just have to believe (admittedly havent/can't do the math) that a higher payroll, if required, could see a very beneficial financial return in a country geared up to support the Jays from coast to coast. But I'm sure Rogers has crunched all the numbers.

 

The trouble is, the way they do their accounts, higher success isn't equal more money to rogers.

If Rogers would co-own the Blue Jays, like they do with the Raptors and Maples Leafs for example, then yes, you would be correct.

Because they own the Blue Jays 100%, every time the Blue Jays give a contract to someone, it directly affects Rogers stock in a negative way.

For the Raptors for example, they use different math which also looks at other streams of revenue and doesn't directly affect their stock price.

[burlingtonbandit]

This is absolutely true. I just have to believe (admittedly havent/can't do the math) that a higher payroll, if required, could see a very beneficial financial return in a country geared up to support the Jays from coast to coast. But I'm sure Rogers has crunched all the numbers.

 

The thing is the blue jays get screwed with the TV contract as Rogers owns SN. Even if it was a different publicly traded company where the TV rights were open for a bidding war the Jays likely get a deal double the one that pays now.

 

I know Canadian TV ratings isn't worth as much as US ones but the NHL got contract got $500 million/season so you could make the argument the Blue Jays would get half of that (which seems crazy high) considering the amount of content it generates.

[Brownie19]

The goal of a publicly traded company is to make money.

If you want to maximize your chances of winning a title, you need an eccentric billionaire who makes his baseball team his own little vanity project.

 

Why don't more people understand this?

 

Because there's a ton of examples where high priced teams suck balls.

 

Philly spend more on salaries last year (9th) than the Jays did (10th) and were the worst team in baseball. The Tigers and Red Sox were both top 4 in spending and both were last place teams...

[burlingtonbandit]

Because there's a ton of examples where high priced teams suck balls.

 

Philly spend more on salaries last year (9th) than the Jays did (10th) and were the worst team in baseball. The Tigers and Red Sox were both top 4 in spending and both were last place teams...

 

Are you saying there isn't a correlation with spending and wining? Because there obviously is tons of data that says it does.

[Boxcar]

This is also absolutely true. Shapiro and Atkins are being hamstrung, as AA was, by an ownership group worth billions that is content to let the Jays sit 14th in payroll in Major League Baseball. Ridiculous.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2016/

 

I'm sure Shapiro prefers his payroll now to what it was in Cleveland.

[L54]

Are you saying there isn't a correlation with spending and wining? Because there obviously is tons of data that says it does.

 

There is?

[Boxcar]

Are you saying there isn't a correlation with spending and wining? Because there obviously is tons of data that says it does.

 

He's just trying to say money isn't everything. I'd rather have Shatkins @ 100 mil than Dave Dombrowski @150 mil.

[burlingtonbandit]

He's just trying to say money isn't everything. I'd rather have Shatkins @ 100 mil than Dave Dombrowski @150 mil.

 

Thats true. I think people underestimate how many $ Shapiro put into the FO and development system this year too which likely cut into the Major league payroll. You could hire a high perf. sport science team for the cost of a reliever.

[Praxis]

The goal of a publicly traded company is to make money.

If you want to maximize your chances of winning a title, you need an eccentric billionaire who makes his baseball team his own little vanity project.

 

Labatt's says remember 1992/1993?

Edited March 22, 2016 by Praxis

[Brownie19]

Are you saying there isn't a correlation with spending and wining? Because there obviously is tons of data that says it does.

 

I'll take your word for it. I'm saying "most people" don't understand this because they see so many "big name" teams that spend a lot who aren't winning.

 

Dodgers spend 25% more than the 2nd highest spending team last year and weren't really contenders to win the NL last year. Angels continue to spend a ton and never win s***. Yanks haven't won in 6 years despite often spending twice as much as the rest of the league. The Mets were a top spending team for years there, while also being hot garbage....etc., etc.

 

The Leafs used to spend more than the rest of the league pre salary cap and we all know how that went.

 

 

Personally - I never really associate big spending with winning....although I do suspect the numbers suggest that in the long run, it gives you a higher chance. The Shatkins at $100M vs. Dom at $150M is a great example. $$ helps, but isn't the be all, end all.

[Brownie19]

He's just trying to say money isn't everything. I'd rather have Shatkins @ 100 mil than Dave Dombrowski @150 mil.

 

Boxy - I'm more interested in the ladies you're slaying.....Jackie Redmond isn't hot? must be nice to be you!!!!

 

 

I mean she's not supermodel material, but I'm not going to pretend like I'd push her out of bed...

[Boxcar]

Boxy - I'm more interested in the ladies you're slaying.....Jackie Redmond isn't hot? must be nice to be you!!!!

 

 

I mean she's not supermodel material, but I'm not going to pretend like I'd push her out of bed...

 

I wouldn't either, I just don't find her to be noteworthy. I also wouldn't get excited over the prospect of seeing her undies for a split second.

[Praxis]

Would I spend money now if I were Rogers? Yes. I think it's ridiculous that after last year our payroll has dipped below BAL, SEA, KC. $25-$30M gap between us and LAA/TEX...

 

We are AL favourites if we spent an extra $20M this past off-season.

 

This.

[Brownie19]

I wouldn't either, I just don't find her to be noteworthy. I also wouldn't get excited over the prospect of seeing her undies for a split second.

 

Let your juvenile side live a little man. I don't know about you, but I still enjoy checking out boobs/cleavage on a daily basis. Or when a t-bar slips out the back of the pants? awesome. I suspect all of us still love that stuff - even though we can just go home and fap to porn. Personally - I just do both

[Brownie19]

Well I think spending is mostly situational. Cubs and Astros were s*** for a while so they didn't spend money. Now that the Cubs developed young players, they're flexing their payroll muscles. Astros will probably follow suit shortly (argument could be made they should have already).

 

I think even the most casual fans would be against throwing money out the window on s*** free agents to be a marginal team like SEA, BAL or CWS or something.

 

Would I spend money now if I were Rogers? Yes. I think it's ridiculous that after last year our payroll has dipped below BAL, SEA, KC. $25-$30M gap between us and LAA/TEX...

 

We are AL favourites if we spent an extra $20M this past off-season.

 

this is an excellent post. much better than mine.

[CrackerJack]

He also left him with a team that only a couple teams can afford (dodgers, Yanks). He can keep that group of players together in the lineup and hope to find cheap pitching like this year. Or He can sell off on some of the players that are going to cost him a small fortune. Shapiro has tough decisions to make and its easy say Alex set this team up so well when he is not the one who has to deal with it.

 

that was exactly my point with "So Alex set Shapiro up pretty nicely (haha.)"

 

impeccable timing on the part of AA:

* brings real Blue Jays fever back to Toronto (& all of Canada) by ending the 22 year playoff drought (check)

* has fans serenading him with chants of "Thank you, Alex!" in Baltimore (check)

* named MLB Executive of the year (check)

* hands over a slam dunk 3M home attendance this season (check)

 

while leaving Shapiro with a diminished farm and to take whatever heat (justified or not) for Price departing for a record contract ... and beloved Edwin & Joey on the cusp of free agency ... etc.

 

Alex is laughing his ass off.

... if the Jays win in 2016, it's "AA's team" and he will be given the credit.

... and if the Jays fall back over the next few years and attendance (and interest) suffers, Alex will be welcomed back as the Canadian saviour (if he isn't already Montreal's GM by that time.)

[G-Snarls]

Prepare to cringe...

 

Chris Russo interviewing Gregg Zaun about contract extensions for Bautista and Encarnacion:

 

http://m.mlb.com/tor/video/topic/70825216/v560775783/mad-dog-and-zaun-break-down-the-blue-jays-roster/?c_id=tor

[Stangstag]

that was exactly my point with "So Alex set Shapiro up pretty nicely (haha.)"

 

impeccable timing on the part of AA:

* brings real Blue Jays fever back to Toronto (& all of Canada) by ending the 22 year playoff drought (check)

* has fans serenading him with chants of "Thank you, Alex!" in Baltimore (check)

* named MLB Executive of the year (check)

* hands over a slam dunk 3M home attendance this season (check)

 

while leaving Shapiro with a diminished farm and to take whatever heat (justified or not) for Price departing for a record contract ... and beloved Edwin & Joey on the cusp of free agency ... etc.

 

Alex is laughing his ass off.

... if the Jays win in 2016, it's "AA's team" and he will be given the credit.

... and if the Jays fall back over the next few years and attendance (and interest) suffers, Alex will be welcomed back as the Canadian saviour (if he isn't already Montreal's GM by that time.)

 

Welcomed back? No. This is Shapiro's team for the next 20 years.

[Stangstag]

Prepare to cringe...

 

Chris Russo interviewing Gregg Zaun about contract extensions for Bautista and Encarnacion:

 

http://m.mlb.com/tor/video/topic/70825216/v560775783/mad-dog-and-zaun-break-down-the-blue-jays-roster/?c_id=tor

 

Let me guess, Chris is yelling about how the Bluejays have to spend the money to keep both?

[G-Snarls]

Let me guess, Chris is yelling about how the Bluejays have to spend the money to keep both?

 

No, he mostly let Zaun do the talking

 

Zaun FWIW thinks Bautista will get what he wants... from someone

[Boxcar]

Let your juvenile side live a little man. I don't know about you, but I still enjoy checking out boobs/cleavage on a daily basis. Or when a t-bar slips out the back of the pants? awesome. I suspect all of us still love that stuff - even though we can just go home and fap to porn. Personally - I just do both

 

I like boobs. I don't have super high standards or anything, I just think she looks kinda weird. I mean, I'd crawl through a hundred miles of glass just to smell Kate Beirness' fart but Jackie Redmond is nowhere near her imo.

[gruber92]

I wouldn't either, I just don't find her to be noteworthy. I also wouldn't get excited over the prospect of seeing her undies for a split second.

 

Man, this s*** keeps getting better and better.

[crazy47larry]

I wouldn't either, I just don't find her to be noteworthy. I also wouldn't get excited over the prospect of seeing her undies for a split second.

 

I very much agree with this. She lathers on the makeup like a painter just to look mediocre basically. She also comes of as very fashionable and superficial fwiw lol.