AA joins Dodgers as VP of Baseball Operations

[BTS]

AA was good at some things. He wasn't good at being a GM. Giving him an opportunity to do the things he's good at while giving him almost no power to let his significant weaknesses do damage seems like a reasonable move, if his ego stays in check.

[Boxcar]

Source?

 

Since when does Grant need sources? He only speaks in common sense.

[Boxcar]

How do all you Friedman fanboys reconcile the fact that the man you hate the most was just hired by your mancrush?

 

Sorry bro, you've got no chance at troll of the year. Nice effort though.

[Krylian]

That's what he tells us, though it could easily be a lie

 

It isn't. And you know it.

[Krylian]

I'm stunned that people still don't realize that he was pretty much fired. They offered him a way to save face and he took it.

 

I agree.

 

Shapiro pulled an anti-Godfather and made him an offer he had to refuse.

[Terminator]

Sorry bro, you've got no chance at troll of the year. Nice effort though.

 

Lol well not my intention, I only rustle jimmies once in a great while - usually Friedman fanboys for abandoning the ship.

[Krylian]

How long until The Dodgers (AA) try to poach some of the Jays talent?

[GD]

How long until The Dodgers (AA) try to poach some of the Jays talent?

 

They already did

 

Ismael Cruz, was it?

[Laika]

My thing's sound effects. Here's a T-Rex - *rooooooaaaarrrrrr*

 

IMO it's hard to "pretty much fire" someone whose contract of employment has expired.

 

Perhaps they made a decision to not offer him a contract, and the public expressions about a five year offer being rejected came from a mutual agreement by the parties, so that:

a) the organization would gain a public relations benefit from apparently having offered a popular executive a lengthy contract to stay, and

Anthopoulos would gain the within industry benefit of apparently making a powerful personal decision to refuse the offer (rather than the reality of having not been offered a deal).

 

I think that's hard to swallow. It takes a lot of assumptions. For one thing, I don't think Shapiro would care all that much about the PR benefit of a fake offer and rejection, because fans would still be mad that AA left and in any event fans tend to get over things like that pretty quickly (coaching / executive changes). Also, I think the "AA saving face" angle is a bit flawed because something like that would be pretty transparent within the industry. These people all talk, and all have webs of contacts within other organizations.

 

So that leads me to believe that they really did make an offer to AA that he rejected. And I suppose it is possible that they made an offer while hoping that he would reject it, but again, this seems unlikely to me. I doubt they would risk him accepting for significant money if they sincerely wanted him to leave.

 

IMO, Shapiro sincerely wanted AA to stay as the nominal GM. Shapiro sincerely offered him a contract. Both parties realized that it would be an arguable role reduction, and perhaps Shapiro also told AA about plans to bring in Ross Atkins in some sort of almost parallel role. I think AA chose to reject it for this reason (reduced autonomy) and/or relationship reasons (just flat out doesn't like Shapiro or Ed Rogers or whoever).

 

I think if we act like rational, reasonable, well-adjusted people, and follow the breadcrumbs of logic, this is where we end up.

[Laika]

How do all you Friedman fanboys reconcile the fact that the man you hate the most was just hired by your mancrush?

 

You can dislike a guy as captain of the ship but still appreciate his limited talents.

 

Baseball in general is moving towards recognizing the significant value of investing in front offices. This is just Friedman padding his organizational depth in another area. Nobody would deny AA's skills as a talker, an extrovert, a people person, a negotiator, a guy who gets things done, etc.

[spittin]

IMO it's hard to "pretty much fire" someone whose contract of employment has expired.

 

Perhaps they made a decision to not offer him a contract, and the public expressions about a five year offer being rejected came from a mutual agreement by the parties, so that:

a) the organization would gain a public relations benefit from apparently having offered a popular executive a lengthy contract to stay, and

Anthopoulos would gain the within industry benefit of apparently making a powerful personal decision to refuse the offer (rather than the reality of having not been offered a deal).

 

I think that's hard to swallow. It takes a lot of assumptions. For one thing, I don't think Shapiro would care all that much about the PR benefit of a fake offer and rejection, because fans would still be mad that AA left and in any event fans tend to get over things like that pretty quickly (coaching / executive changes). Also, I think the "AA saving face" angle is a bit flawed because something like that would be pretty transparent within the industry. These people all talk, and all have webs of contacts within other organizations.

 

So that leads me to believe that they really did make an offer to AA that he rejected. And I suppose it is possible that they made an offer while hoping that he would reject it, but again, this seems unlikely to me. I doubt they would risk him accepting for significant money if they sincerely wanted him to leave.

 

IMO, Shapiro sincerely wanted AA to stay as the nominal GM. Shapiro sincerely offered him a contract. Both parties realized that it would be an arguable role reduction, and perhaps Shapiro also told AA about plans to bring in Ross Atkins in some sort of almost parallel role. I think AA chose to reject it for this reason (reduced autonomy) and/or relationship reasons (just flat out doesn't like Shapiro or Ed Rogers or whoever).

 

I think if we act like rational, reasonable, well-adjusted people, and follow the breadcrumbs of logic, this is where we end up.

 

In the end I concur that you should be a lawyer and Grant remain a peon.

[spittin]

In my opinion when the Jays hired Alex they were basically just throwing s*** at the wall hoping it would stick. It was kind of a laughable time for the organization. Alex had his ups and downs and obvious payroll parameters and wasn't able to build from the ground up. He did however bring the Jays into contention eventually with a massive string of trades. At least he gave Shapiro a favorable position to work with and maybe he'll learn from his superiors in LA and get another shot a GM/President down the road.

[Angrioter]

AA first trade idea

Aaron Sanchez (Nasty stuff and great guy) for Julio Urias (Mexican and cross eyed)

[Angrioter]

He was a good GM. Not great but he was good I think.

 

NO, el no lo era <-------- Troglodyte language

[Jimcanuck]

He was a good GM. Not great but he was good I think.

 

He was Amaro Jr good

[TheHurl]

Hes probably getting paid the same or possibly more with absolutely zero pressure on him. Plus he gets to live in California. Sounds like a pretty good gig.

 

actually he's remaining in Toronto

[TheHurl]

How do all you Friedman fanboys reconcile the fact that the man you hate the most was just hired by your mancrush?

 

we've been told for a while now that AF likes AA, does not come as a surprise at all.

[vilifyingforce]

IMO it's hard to "pretty much fire" someone whose contract of employment has expired.

 

Perhaps they made a decision to not offer him a contract, and the public expressions about a five year offer being rejected came from a mutual agreement by the parties, so that:

a) the organization would gain a public relations benefit from apparently having offered a popular executive a lengthy contract to stay, and

Anthopoulos would gain the within industry benefit of apparently making a powerful personal decision to refuse the offer (rather than the reality of having not been offered a deal).

 

I think that's hard to swallow. It takes a lot of assumptions. For one thing, I don't think Shapiro would care all that much about the PR benefit of a fake offer and rejection, because fans would still be mad that AA left and in any event fans tend to get over things like that pretty quickly (coaching / executive changes). Also, I think the "AA saving face" angle is a bit flawed because something like that would be pretty transparent within the industry. These people all talk, and all have webs of contacts within other organizations.

 

So that leads me to believe that they really did make an offer to AA that he rejected. And I suppose it is possible that they made an offer while hoping that he would reject it, but again, this seems unlikely to me. I doubt they would risk him accepting for significant money if they sincerely wanted him to leave.

 

IMO, Shapiro sincerely wanted AA to stay as the nominal GM. Shapiro sincerely offered him a contract. Both parties realized that it would be an arguable role reduction, and perhaps Shapiro also told AA about plans to bring in Ross Atkins in some sort of almost parallel role. I think AA chose to reject it for this reason (reduced autonomy) and/or relationship reasons (just flat out doesn't like Shapiro or Ed Rogers or whoever).

 

I think if we act like rational, reasonable, well-adjusted people, and follow the breadcrumbs of logic, this is where we end up.

 

Great post, I think it was the actions of Rogers of how they went about hiring Shapiro(and trying to poach others) that really chaffed at him. Add in a demotion and you end up with how things went down. Shapiro didn't really have a chance at keeping AA around.

[saskjayfan]

AA was good at some things. He wasn't good at being a GM. Giving him an opportunity to do the things he's good at while giving him almost no power to let his significant weaknesses do damage seems like a reasonable move, if his ego stays in check.

 

what was AA good at?

[saskjayfan]

actually he's remaining in Toronto

 

he just said he's planning on moving to cali after the school year and he also said he has an out clause in his contract which would allow him to accept a GM role.

[Gorlak]

what was AA good at?

 

Drafting, Contract negotiations, Finding trade opportunities.

[Gorlak]

AA left because he and Shapiro have different styles and would have clashed, Shapiro would have vetoed trades that Beeston never would. AA likes quality, Shapiro likes Quantity. I bet AA would have stayed if Rogers brought in Dombrowski.

[GD]

Drafting, Contract negotiations, Finding trade opportunities.

 

contracts were satori

[Gorlak]

contracts were satori

 

hard to say how involved he actually was in contacts or drafting, but his team was great on both fronts.

[glory]

Rogers wanted to get rid of AA in January of last year when they tampered in an attempt to get Kenny Williams and Dan Duquette. The writing was already on the wall at that point. I think it's possible AA's beef wasn't with Shapiro at all, but rather with Rogers. Shapiro was the replacement that was going to come in regardless. If it wasn't him, it would have been someone else that had no connection to AA.

 

I think Shapiro prefers having Atkins rather than Alex. THat's just common sense. He's familiar with Atkins and knows he can work with him and they have the same ideas on how to build an organization. He may have been able to live with AA as the GM, but AA wasn't exactly saber-friendly nor did he care about important things like options, service time, development, etc. It was a poor match.

 

In the end, I think the real beef was AA and Rogers. Not that I care. I'm happy with Shapiro/Atkins, and thought AA was a year away from pulling an Amaro, so he left at the right time. Everyone is better off.

[Brownie19]

what was AA good at?

 

It's like some of you forgot how he traded Vernon Wells and acquired Josh Donaldson...Jesus.

[Captain Adama]

It's like some of you forgot how he traded Vernon Wells and acquired Josh Donaldson...Jesus.

 

I still don't understand why he gets credit for trading Wells since it was Tony Reagins who called him in the first place.

[TheHurl]

he just said he's planning on moving to cali after the school year and he also said he has an out clause in his contract which would allow him to accept a GM role.

 

Thanks missed that. I knew he was staying as he's coming in to speak to my class (yes this could be entertaining)

[saskjayfan]

It's like some of you forgot how he traded Vernon Wells and acquired Josh Donaldson...Jesus.

 

 

lol....i was being facetious. The magnitude of AA's most successful moves were equal to his mistakes. The haters like to dwell on the mistakes and ignore the Donaldson, wells trades. The team last year was historically good. There's only been 6 times in the past 115 years where team with the best run differential had 100 more runs than the team in 2nd place. The Bautista and EE signings were key to last year. Many of the haters hated the bautista signing when it was done. Those that preach to others that they are casual fans and do not know what they are talking about absolutely hated the bautista signing. I guess even the most knowledgeable baseball minds like the one's that post on bluejaysmessageboard are wrong from time to time. Why would AA make mistakes if these people make mistakes?..lol

 

He won the executive of the year award voted on by other baseball executives. Do a few haters on an internet board know more than the baseball executives in the game? I don't think so.

 

Is a team with the league MVP, Tulo, Martin, a dirt cheap front of the rotation arm in Stroman, pillar, goins, travis, Sanchez,Hutch, pompey, osuna, colabello going into 2017 going to be the phillies of this year. I don't think so. Is Tulo going to any way resemble Ryan Howard in 2017? Not bloody likely. Ditto for Martin. AA and his team drafted a ton of talent in his tenure and none of the guys in the farm are going to work out? Pentecost, Alford, reid foley, harris..etc....they are all going to be duds? I don't think so.

 

Haters like Glory...gonna hate.

[Grant77]

IMO it's hard to "pretty much fire" someone whose contract of employment has expired.

 

Perhaps they made a decision to not offer him a contract, and the public expressions about a five year offer being rejected came from a mutual agreement by the parties, so that:

a) the organization would gain a public relations benefit from apparently having offered a popular executive a lengthy contract to stay, and

Anthopoulos would gain the within industry benefit of apparently making a powerful personal decision to refuse the offer (rather than the reality of having not been offered a deal).

 

I think that's hard to swallow. It takes a lot of assumptions. For one thing, I don't think Shapiro would care all that much about the PR benefit of a fake offer and rejection, because fans would still be mad that AA left and in any event fans tend to get over things like that pretty quickly (coaching / executive changes). Also, I think the "AA saving face" angle is a bit flawed because something like that would be pretty transparent within the industry. These people all talk, and all have webs of contacts within other organizations.

 

So that leads me to believe that they really did make an offer to AA that he rejected. And I suppose it is possible that they made an offer while hoping that he would reject it, but again, this seems unlikely to me. I doubt they would risk him accepting for significant money if they sincerely wanted him to leave.

 

IMO, Shapiro sincerely wanted AA to stay as the nominal GM. Shapiro sincerely offered him a contract. Both parties realized that it would be an arguable role reduction, and perhaps Shapiro also told AA about plans to bring in Ross Atkins in some sort of almost parallel role. I think AA chose to reject it for this reason (reduced autonomy) and/or relationship reasons (just flat out doesn't like Shapiro or Ed Rogers or whoever).

 

I think if we act like rational, reasonable, well-adjusted people, and follow the breadcrumbs of logic, this is where we end up.

 

We're more or less on the same page here, but put yourself in Alex's shoes. You've just achieved great success, you're the third best team in a league of 30 teams. You have the organization in the best position it's been in for more than 20 years. Then you lose all of your influence and get offered a significant demotion. You have plenty of money, so a job with a nice title and no real power has little appeal.

 

I sure as hell wouldn't stay and you're lying if you say you would.

 

You can live in a fantasy world and pretend that Shapiro was sincere, but he knew what the answer would be. I don't care if he's a nice person and and I'm not upset about the way he handled it, but use some common sense.