Chapman to Yanks for prospects

[L54]

I get that we do have two pretty good back end relievers but the Yankees have 3 of the top 10 BP arms in baseball

[L54]

Adopt away, it'll make my life easier when the results validate the statement

 

Will it? In what way?

[Brownie19]

How many signatures will this find its way into?

 

I've never bothered having a sig...but this seems like a good opportunity.

[Boxcar]

Adopt away, it'll make my life easier when the results validate the statement

 

Guess you're banking on an alternate reality showing itself.

[Boxcar]

Will it? In what way?

 

Well, Cecil and Osuna will probably have a few comparable stats, and you can pick and choose those ones to display while highlighting the few things (if any) that Miller/Chapman/Betances do poorly.

[DuckDuckGose]

Will it? In what way?

 

I believe you have the mental capacity to figure that out without me explaining it to you. Pick a metric other than K/9 and get back to me at the end of the year.

[DuckDuckGose]

Well, Cecil and Osuna will probably have a few comparable stats, and you can pick and choose those ones to display while highlighting the few things (if any) that Miller/Chapman/Betances do poorly.

 

I'm not cherry picking stats. Use whatever metrics you see fit other than K/9 and they'll be on that level. I'd say ERA, SIERA and FIP they'll be close.

[BTS]

I believe you have the mental capacity to figure that out without me explaining it to you. Pick a metric other than K/9 and get back to me at the end of the year.

 

What's the best way to evaluate these guys? RA-9 WAR? Last two years:

 

Betances = 7.5

Chapman = 4.5

Cecil = 2.5

Osuna = 2.0 (in one year)

 

WPA?

 

Betances = 8.44

Chapman = 4.92

Cecil = 2.55

Osuna = 0.82

 

fWAR (this is probably the worst)

 

Betances = 5.6

Chapman = 5.2

Cecil = 2.5

Osuna = 1.3

 

Either way, you're dumn.

[DuckDuckGose]

What's the best way to evaluate these guys? RA-9 WAR? Last two years:

 

Betances = 7.5

Chapman = 4.5

Cecil = 2.5

Osuna = 2.0 (in one year)

 

WPA?

 

Betances = 8.44

Chapman = 4.92

Cecil = 2.55

Osuna = 0.82

 

fWAR (this is probably the worst)

 

Betances = 5.6

Chapman = 5.2

Cecil = 2.5

Osuna = 1.3

 

Either way, you're dumn.

 

No last two years is non-sensical. Relievers cary widely, Osuna has been in the league a year and those are all counting stats. Let's also remember that of all 5 of those guys Cecil was by far the best in the 2nd half. Cecil actually had the lowest 2nd half FIP in all of baseball and was the best reliever in baseball for over 3 months. HE deserves to be in that group whether you believe it or not.

[BTS]

No last two years is non-sensical. Relievers cary widely, Osuna has been in the league a year and those are all counting stats. Let's also remember that of all 5 of those guys Cecil was by far the best in the 2nd half. Cecil actually had the lowest 2nd half FIP in all of baseball and was the best reliever in baseball for over 3 months. HE deserves to be in that group whether you believe it or not.

 

lol

[DuckDuckGose]

Great post. Go cherry pick some more stats.

[BTS]

Great post. Go cherry pick some more stats.

 

You are a very stupid person.

[DuckDuckGose]

Tell me again how those 2 year counting stats are the best measure of 2016 performance or how that trio is going to manage 225 high leverage innings. Why don't you get off your high horse and post a quality reply. Or did you forget how to?

[King]

No last two years is non-sensical. Relievers cary widely, Osuna has been in the league a year and those are all counting stats. Let's also remember that of all 5 of those guys Cecil was by far the best in the 2nd half. Cecil actually had the lowest 2nd half FIP in all of baseball and was the best reliever in baseball for over 3 months. HE deserves to be in that group whether you believe it or not.

 

I believe you have the mental capacity to figure that out without me explaining it to you. Pick a metric other than K/9 and get back to me at the end of the year.

 

I'm not cherry picking stats. Use whatever metrics you see fit other than K/9 and they'll be on that level. I'd say ERA, SIERA and FIP they'll be close.

 

Great post. Go cherry pick some more stats.

 

...........

[BTS]

Tell me again how those 2 year counting stats are the best measure of 2016 performance or how that trio is going to manage 225 high leverage innings. Why don't you get off your high horse and post a quality reply. Or did you forget how to?

 

It's like this: by any objective measure of value, Betances and Chapman have been better players than Osuna and Cecil. You have argued that this will cease to be the case in 2016. I'm not sure why you've argued this. I don't think anyone is sure why you've argued this. Your only evidence that this will happen was that Cecil was excellent for 25 innings in the second half of 2015. So you think those 25 innings are evidence that Cecil is now the best reliever in baseball, or in a tie with Betances and Chapman. That's pretty dubious, but at least it's something. You've yet to comment on why you believe Osuna is going to join Ceci, Betances, and Chapman as one of the best relievers in baseball next year.

[DuckDuckGose]

There are more metrics than K/9. By focusing solely on those K numbers it's cherry picking stats. By looking at counting stats over two years when one of the players being discussed was a rookie is cherry picking stats. What's wrong with those statements? And when I said I'm not going to cherry pick stats I meant it. So if you have metrics you'd like to use to judge results than feel free to chime in.

[DuckDuckGose]

It's like this: by any objective measure of value, Betances and Chapman have been better players than Osuna and Cecil. You have argued that this will cease to be the case in 2016. I'm not sure why you've argued this. I don't think anyone is sure why you've argued this. Your only evidence that this will happen was that Cecil was excellent for 25 innings in the second half of 2015. So you think those 25 innings are evidence that Cecil is now the best reliever in baseball, or in a tie with Betances and Chapman. That's pretty dubious, but at least it's something. You've yet to comment on why you believe Osuna is going to join Ceci, Betances, and Chapman as one of the best relievers in baseball next year.

 

Miller is the best LHP in baseball, Britton, Chapman and Cecil are the next three. I also didn't argue that Cecil and Osuna were better than Miller, Chapman or Betances. What I said was Osuna and Cecil are on the same level as Chapman and Betances and they deserve that recognition. The stats support those arguments. And like I said previously I'll be validated this time next year when it's all said and done.

[King]

There are more metrics than K/9. By focusing solely on those K numbers it's cherry picking stats. By looking at counting stats over two years when one of the players being discussed was a rookie is cherry picking stats. What's wrong with those statements? And when I said I'm not going to cherry pick stats I meant it. So if you have metrics you'd like to use to judge results than feel free to chime in.

 

http://i.embed.ly/1/display/resize?key=1e6a1a1efdb011df84894040444cdc60&url=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F005%2F970%2FI-can-count-to-potato.jpg&width=810

[BTS]

This is the most egregious argument made on this forum since "I wouldn't trade Hoffman for McCutchen".

[reedjohnsonfan]

The Jays' arms are being underrated here. They have two of the best high leverage guys in baseball, Yankees have a third and a better BP than the Jays. I just want Osuna and Cecil to get the recognition they deserve. I'm also not sold that Chapman a) wont be distracted and will be able to get through the Jays elite FB hitters. That being said it was a good move for the Yanks (likely to have the best BP in baseball) but they're still behind the Jays everywhere else on the diamond going in to the season. I'm not worried about this move at all.

 

Chapman, Betances and Miller are much better than anyone the Jays have, and by a wide margin. How are you not worried about the move? Chapman is probably the best reliever in baseball. They also have a much better rotation than the Jays.

[Sammy225]

This is the most egregious argument made on this forum since "I wouldn't trade Hoffman for McCutchen".

 

Pardon me where the f*** did this happen

[Grant77]

Sorry. Cant agree with this ^.

 

MLB, NFL, NBA are multi billion brands and as a business they rely on "court of public opinion" far more than the legal test to protect their brand. I don't blame them for taking action even when there is reasonable doubt. In the same vein its why so many big brands dump celeb endorsements at the slightest hint of negative perception.

 

The athletes benefit from the brand as evidenced by their earning power, and they should understand if they end up perceived to be acting on the wrong side of the league policies they will pay a commensurately higher price. It may not be fair or natural justice in the legal sense, but that's the price of admission into this massive business.

 

I understand why leagues do what they do. Fans are stupid and doing what the fans want makes them money.

 

I posted what I expect as a fan and what would make me happy. If an athlete doesn't commit any crimes and follows the rules on the field then that's good enough for me. I don't need sports leagues to tell me whether an athlete is naughty or nice. Then I'd be one of those idiots who thinks Barry Bonds is a villain, while Jason Giambi is a great guy just because MLB says so.

[Boxcar]

No last two years is non-sensical. Relievers cary widely, Osuna has been in the league a year and those are all counting stats. Let's also remember that of all 5 of those guys Cecil was by far the best in the 2nd half. Cecil actually had the lowest 2nd half FIP in all of baseball and was the best reliever in baseball for over 3 months. HE deserves to be in that group whether you believe it or not.

 

"Alright, alright guys. Time out. When I said any stat other than k/9, I meant any stat that doesn't explicitly highlight how much better Betances and Chapman are."

[Boxcar]

Pardon me where the f*** did this happen

 

Letthedumnfly said it in the Hoffman stud thread. f*** that thread was bad, started off as a super creepy love fest for Hoffman from the OP, devolved into some guy arguing that Hoffman was the most valuable commodity in baseball.

 

For the record, he also said he would trade Hoffman for Harper.

[Sammy225]

Letthedumnfly said it in the Hoffman stud thread. f*** that thread was bad, started off as a super creepy love fest for Hoffman from the OP, devolved into some guy arguing that Hoffman was the most valuable commodity in baseball.

 

For the record, he also said he would trade Hoffman for Harper.

 

Well that makes a lot more sense lol

[Spanky99]

This is the most egregious argument made on this forum since "I wouldn't trade Hoffman for McCutchen".

 

Lipchitz, needs to DuckDuckHide.

[Spanky99]

Pardon me where the f*** did this happen

 

lol

[Spanky99]

Letthedumnfly said it in the Hoffman stud thread. f*** that thread was bad, started off as a super creepy love fest for Hoffman from the OP, devolved into some guy arguing that Hoffman was the most valuable commodity in baseball.

 

For the record, he also said he would trade Hoffman for Harper.

 

*wouldn't

[havok24]

There aren't going to be 225 high leverage innings for them to pitch. It's a moot point. Miller is the best pitcher of the bunch but Osuna and Cecil are on the same level as Chapman and Betances. Compared to the Jays they're maybe giving an extra 20 high leverage innings to an elite RP. The Jays will give those innings to Sanchez and situational guys. It's not going to be a big difference.

 

lol what is this?

[Spanky99]

lol what is this?

 

Has to be trolling or thick homer blue glasses.