Blue Jays sign J.A. Happ 3-years $36M

[KingKat]

This seems to be a misconception, unless it only refers to starting pitching and excludes relief pitchers (?).

 

Yes. That is usually what's implied by the term "rotation".

[Krylian]

This is Honestly Terrible terrible news why the hell is Shapiro doing this , Do you all not remember J..A Happ we gave the guy an escort to the airport to get him out of town quicker , LIKE FACK does this board blow my mind 11 games 0f 1.80 ball with one of the best teams in ball pffff off its. disaster , AA would never make this s*** move

 

Many wondered if Shapiro was hired because he's a small market guy and Rogers wants to be run like that.

 

Some said 'yes', some said 'get your head out of your ass'.

 

This is a 'payroll parameters' move and does nothing to lead us to believe that we're Big Dogs out there.

[jaysfan2014]

Many wondered if Shapiro was hired because he's a small market guy and Rogers wants to be run like that.

 

Some said 'yes', some said 'get your head out of your ass'.

 

This is a 'payroll parameters' move and does nothing to lead us to believe that we're Big Dogs out there.

 

No, it's being smart.. giving 7-8 years/$200M+ for David Price is incredibly risky. There's no guarantee Price will hold up in that contract. And building depth is better for the Jays than blowing it on one big name. Remember how little depth we had with AA?

[jaysfan2014]

Schoenfield loves the deal:

 

David Schoenfield

SweetSpot blogger

 

The Blue Jays' signing of J.A. Happ for three years, $36 million may prove to be one of the bargains of the offseason. He made some mechanical tweaks after joining the Pirates and had a 1.85 ERA in 11 starts, with improved walk and strikeout rates. This also means an official farewell to David Price as Toronto goes with rotation depth over a big-money ace.

[Statman]

That's an ugly rotation. If that's what we're go into 2016 with I'm not anticipating a playoff appearance.

 

Neither am I. We have 3 pitchers (Dickey, Happ and Chavez) in the rotation that do not translate well to the AL East and one pitcher (Estrada) that could implode at any second on what could have been just a fluke year with the lack of HR's he gave up. It is going to be a disaster.

[nextyear]

Yes. That is usually what's implied by the term "rotation".

 

 

Yes, I agree and pointed it out.

 

However, he didn't give any source (link) that indicates that their starting rotation was 11th out of 15 AL teams. The fact that their runs allowed (RA) per game was 2nd best in the AL makes me doubt the claim that their starting pitching was 11th out of 15 teams. It might not have been 2nd best since their relievers were so good, but 11th ...?

 

I would like to see the stats for their starting rotation (which would have changed throughout the year). I don't know where to find that stat; ERA just for the starters and ERA just for the relievers. (ERA is a team stat but it is valid when comparing pitchers on the same team)

[L54]

Yes, I agree and pointed it out.

 

However, he didn't give any source (link) that indicates that their starting rotation was 11th out of 15 AL teams. The fact that their runs allowed (RA) per game was 2nd best in the AL makes me doubt the claim that their starting pitching was 11th out of 15 teams. It might not have been 2nd best since their relievers were so good, but 11th ...?

 

I would like to see the stats for their starting rotation (which would have changed throughout the year). I don't know where to find that stat; ERA just for the starters and ERA just for the relievers. (ERA is a team stat but it is valid when comparing pitchers on the same team)

 

Your first problem is that you're going to evaluate based on ERA and RA.

[flafson]

I think we still need a top of the rotation arm, let Hutch and Chavez fight it out play as long men from the pen.

[Jimcanuck]

You can also handcuff the franchise for years with that money...

 

A 2+1 deal for Kuma is hardly handcuffing

[burlingtonbandit]

Bit late to the party but I don't mind the signing. That Chavez deal looks a lot worse now though. You give up 4 years of Hendriks for 1 year of a Chavez-Hutchison upgrade which might not even be an upgrade. Now the team needs a late inning bullpen arm.

[ElNik2013]

Solid signing with some upside. Reality was always that Jays wouldn't be in on the top FA SP and even if they were interested in them, I doubt interest would be mutual, other than using them to get more money from some other team, like Anibal Sanchez did in 2012.

 

Franchise decided to trade its SP depth in the last year in deals that brought it Donaldson, Price and Tulowitzki so spending some money in a deep FA pool of SP should be expected given how good the position player roster is.

 

 

Rotation is now solid with Hutchison as #6 SP and there's still hope he can become a 3. People forget that Stroman was out most of last year.

 

Hopefully Sanchez is sent to AA/AAA to work on improving his chances of becoming a decent SP some time during the year and become depth.

[nextyear]

Your first problem is that you're going to evaluate based on ERA and RA.

 

 

I was responding to a remark that the Kansas City Royals had the 11th worst starting rotation in the league. Do you agree that the Kansas City Royals had the 11th worst starting rotation, and if you do, what stats would you use?

 

I think that the Blue Jays can win with the current starting 5 pitchers, as I stated before.

[AdamGreenwood]

lol, I hope you're trolling because a 5.14 ERA from your starting rotation is not good enough for any line up.

 

1) ERA is not a good measure of pitching ability.

2) Hutchison actually had a 5.57 ERA. Despite this, we went 18-10 in his starts.

3) My point is not that Hutchison should be in the starting rotation. My point is that the offense is so good, we can win even with mediocre pitching.

 

I would rather we went out and acquired Chavez+Happ+some other average guy than one David Price at $25 million for 8 years.

We really don't need another Vernon-Wells albatross eating 20% of the team salary for the next six years.

[Jimcanuck]

Solid signing with some upside. Reality was always that Jays wouldn't be in on the top FA SP and even if they were interested in them, I doubt interest would be mutual, other than using them to get more money from some other team, like Anibal Sanchez did in 2012.

 

Franchise decided to trade its SP depth in the last year in deals that brought it Donaldson, Price and Tulowitzki so spending some money in a deep FA pool of SP should be expected given how good the position player roster is.

 

 

Rotation is now solid with Hutchison as #6 SP and there's still hope he can become a 3. People forget that Stroman was out most of last year.

 

Hopefully Sanchez is sent to AA/AAA to work on improving his chances of becoming a decent SP some time during the year and become depth.

 

Yes Hutch deserves another chance. But if he shits the bed again, good chance he can become the righty version of Cecil.

[vilifyingforce]

Yes, I agree and pointed it out.

 

However, he didn't give any source (link) that indicates that their starting rotation was 11th out of 15 AL teams. The fact that their runs allowed (RA) per game was 2nd best in the AL makes me doubt the claim that their starting pitching was 11th out of 15 teams. It might not have been 2nd best since their relievers were so good, but 11th ...?

 

I would like to see the stats for their starting rotation (which would have changed throughout the year). I don't know where to find that stat; ERA just for the starters and ERA just for the relievers. (ERA is a team stat but it is valid when comparing pitchers on the same team)

 

Fangraphs is your friend. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=al&qual=0&type=8&season=2015&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,a

[nextyear]

Fangraphs is your friend. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=al&qual=0&type=8&season=2015&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,a

 

Thank you. That is all that I wanted, a link.

[flafson]

Bit late to the party but I don't mind the signing. That Chavez deal looks a lot worse now though. You give up 4 years of Hendriks for 1 year of a Chavez-Hutchison upgrade which might not even be an upgrade. Now the team needs a late inning bullpen arm.

 

When has it ever happened that a team only used 5 starters in a single season? It just never happens, you probably need good 6 starters and another 2-3 fringe ones to have a chance.

[glory]

When has it ever happened that a team only used 5 starters in a single season? It just never happens, you probably need good 6 starters and another 2-3 fringe ones to have a chance.

 

Yeah they still need more AAA depth.

 

MLB: Stroman, Dickey, Estrada, Happ, Chavez

AAA: Hutchison, Diamond, ?, ?, ?

[Atothe]

Many wondered if Shapiro was hired because he's a small market guy and Rogers wants to be run like that.

 

Some said 'yes', some said 'get your head out of your ass'.

 

This is a 'payroll parameters' move and does nothing to lead us to believe that we're Big Dogs out there.

 

So give Zimmerman 20+ mill a year so the jays can show they're big dogs. Sound advice.

[Frenchsoup]

Yeah they still need more AAA depth.

 

MLB: Stroman, Dickey, Estrada, Happ, Chavez

AAA: Hutchison, Diamond, ?, ?, ?

 

All of our starters aren't really injury prone, maybe if we had a Syndy, Harvey, Degrom, i'd be more worried. But we got athletic soft tossers - Happ.

[BTS]

This seems to be a misconception, unless it only refers to starting pitching and excludes relief pitchers (?). As a team, Kansas City was 3rd best in the AL in runs allowed (RA). The best was Houston with 618 runs allowed (RA) in 162 games, Cleveland was 640 RA in 161 games (3.98 runs/game) and Kansas City allowed 641 runs in 162 games (3.96 runs/game): so in terms of RA per game, Kansas City was 2nd best in the American League - http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/index.jsp#20151004 .

 

KC is one of the best defensive teams ever.

[Followthelight]

The Royals were 12th in ERA-, 13th in FIP- and 14th in xFIP-. We've gone through this many times. It's true. Please believe it this time. They didn't have a good rotation. That doesn't mean anything for the Blue Jays, though. This idea that we need previous teams to "prove" that a roster concept works is folly. The Jays have a great team and added a good player.

 

Except KC has a dominant pen, we don't right now. Any comparisons to KC are dumb, they have the best pen in baseball. They also are elite defensively.

[Followthelight]

Out of the 8 playoff teams (10 if you include wild card) Jays were 3rd...

 

Lost every game started by "the ace"

 

Ace - 0-3

Stroman 2-1

Estrado 2-1

Dickey 1-1

 

We have (likely) lost "the ace", but the pitchers retunring went 5-3 in the playoffs (in the games they started, didn't always get decision). Jays went 5-6 in the playoffs -- that is not bad. Texas went 2-3, St. Louise 1-3... Chicago 4-5...

 

Jays were 3/8 in terms of playoff teams. Jays good in playofffs, other than "Ace" David Price.

 

They play other games besides ace, and where did I ever mention an Ace? Nice strawman. We could have gotten better talent without Ace money then Happ and Chavez. I know the homers refuse to criticize anything but this is ridiculous. Happ will regress as well estrada.

[Followthelight]

So did David Price

 

Where did I ever mention price? I never wanted to get price.

[KingKat]

Except KC has a dominant pen, we don't right now. Any comparisons to KC are dumb, they have the best pen in baseball. They also are elite defensively.

 

And they don't have the hitters the Jays have. The point isn't that the Jays are like KC. The point is that there's no definite template to building a winning teams. You can be average in some areas and make up for that by being elite in others. This team has a bunch of elite hitters and no more than one (depending on how you view Stroman) elite pitcher. I feel like a lot of people would think the team is better if the talent were more equally distributed between the rotation and the lineup but that wouldn't actually be the case.

[BTS]

And they don't have the hitters the Jays have. The point isn't that the Jays are like KC. The point is that there's no definite template to building a winning teams. You can be average in some areas and make up for that by being elite in others. This team has a bunch of elite hitters and no more than one (depending on how you view Stroman) elite pitcher. I feel like a lot of people would think the team is better if the talent were more equally distributed between the rotation and the lineup but that wouldn't actually be the case.

 

Yup. Trade Edwin for a starter and suddenly everyone is happy (and the team is worse)

[Followthelight]

And they don't have the hitters the Jays have. The point isn't that the Jays are like KC. The point is that there's no definite template to building a winning teams. You can be average in some areas and make up for that by being elite in others. This team has a bunch of elite hitters and no more than one (depending on how you view Stroman) elite pitcher. I feel like a lot of people would think the team is better if the talent were more equally distributed between the rotation and the lineup but that wouldn't actually be the case.

 

I realise this and right now this team is not good enough in a tough division. Also our hitters were silenced in a big park...throwing away Homefield was beyond dumb and I am shocked more have not called out the Org and Gibby on it. It most likely cost us a WS.

[KingKat]

I realise this and right now this team is not good enough in a tough division.

 

Fine but that has nothing to do with the J.A. Happ signing. The Happ signing doesn't meant they can't still add to the team. The Happ signing made the team stronger but people are acting like the Jays are subtracting with this move.

[Followthelight]

Fine but that has nothing to do with the J.A. Happ signing. The Happ signing doesn't meant they can't still add to the team. The Happ signing made the team stronger but people are acting like the Jays are subtracting with this move.

It does because now that limits us getting any significant upgrades that this team needs to win. If the payroll was bigger i'd agree, but it's not.

[bendera3]

I realise this and right now this team is not good enough in a tough division.

 

AL East isn't even that tough of a division anymore.