Alex Anthopoulos Departing

[BigCecil]

I think there's a distinction between selling high and just trading a good player because you know he'll be hitting free agency soon.

 

One is trading from strength and the other is getting the best you can before they may walk as more power shifts to the player.

[saskjayfan]

Rogers didn't "let him go" you idiot. They offered him a huge 5YR deal and he walked away from it. It's real convenient to just create a common enemy so it's easier for you to grasp.

 

you hould post a link to the details of this

[Slugger]

Finding myself in a position where saskjaysfan agrees with me is making me rethink my earlier post...

 

HA.

 

Ah, yes. Martin is a warrior therefore his eventual decline due to age is avoidable.

[THANOS]

The concept of selling high is that a player has an unexpected spike in performance and you try to get another GM to buy into it. This would be like trading Lawrie after his first partial season where people were comparing him and Mike Trout. Trading a guy who has been consistently good most of his career is very different. I feel like this should not need an explanation and it's kind of a pointless thing anyway.

 

I think it's a semantics thing, you're still selling someone while they are in there peak for performance, for however long it's been happening. That said, I see what you're saying.

 

I think there's a distinction between selling high and just trading a good player because you know he'll be hitting free agency soon.

 

That's fair.

[Frenchsoup]

We fired the executive of the year and hired a value whore. I want to know what that Carrasco deal looked like.

[BTS]

We fired the executive of the year and hired a value whore. I want to know what that Carrasco deal looked like.

 

1. Nobody got fired.

2. What the hell is a value whore? Sounds like a good thing to me.

[dineke]

We fired the executive of the year and hired a value whore. I want to know what that Carrasco deal looked like.

 

but we got a 2 time executive of the year to replace him!

[dineke]

I liked AA(in the last year) but this might be the greatest day of the year for the Jays.

[Ehjays]

I'm going out on a limb and saying AA to Boston as GM

I remember when Dombrowski was hired he said there was a GM that he recently dealt with that if he could persuade him he would.

Im looking for that quote.

 

 

 

I liked AA but a few positives I take from this is

Gibbons gone

no more French at the conferences.

no more bottom feedings (I'll bet we claimed more players off waivers than anyone) I know we found some good (mushroom and Smoak) but

he would DFA some before they got on the plane.

 

 

I dont want some guy running the team that doesnt want to be here, Talk about spoiled. He has a job we would all love to have .....paid to live and breathe baseball,

paid expense to go see the top minor league prospects, etc....And he turns it down cause its not the right fit???? f*** You!!

[glory]

I still maintain that glory tends to debbie more than just about anyone else here, though. Often needlessly.

 

With Gibbons, yes. With Anthopoulos, a little less so but certainly enough to be noticeable.

 

However, I like the Shapiro hire, and if you read the Donaldson trade thread I was practically s***ing myself I was so happy. I just didn't like the way AA built this team from 2013-15, and the fact that people are making him out to be a hero while s***ing all over a very intelligent baseball guy like Shapiro is very disappointing. Hence why I'm speaking out against it. I think people are so happy to finally make the playoffs that some can't see the forest for the trees anymore.

[Trouba95]

Guy on radio says no one likes to make trades with Shapiro. True or false?

[Frenchsoup]

1. Nobody got fired.

2. What the hell is a value whore? Sounds like a good thing to me.

 

Well they offered AA a 1yr deal with an option for the assistant GM role. Shapiro/Rogers know he would never take that. So there being dicks about that low-ball offer. By the way, I do believe Shapiro "Scolded" AA because he wanted to be in better position for when he takes over. Which is a total dipshit move. Getting value for your buck is always good, but sometimes you have to bend a bit because of the win curb. Value whores like him and Cherrington are hard to trade with as well, they overvalue their players more.

[Rusty_Savage]

I'm going out on a limb and saying AA to Boston as GM

I remember when Dombrowski was hired he said there was a GM that he recently dealt with that if he could persuade him he would.

Im looking for that quote.

 

 

 

I liked AA but a few positives I take from this is

Gibbons gone

no more French at the conferences.

no more bottom feedings (I'll bet we claimed more players off waivers than anyone) I know we found some good (mushroom and Smoak) but

he would DFA some before they got on the plane.

 

 

I dont want some guy running the team that doesnt want to be here, Talk about spoiled. He has a job we would all love to have .....paid to live and breathe baseball,

paid expense to go see the top minor league prospects, etc....And he turns it down cause its not the right fit???? f*** You!!

 

They just hired Mike Hazen you nimrod

[BTS]

Well they offered AA a 1yr deal with an option for the assistant GM role. Shapiro/Rogers know he would never take that. So there being dicks about that low-ball offer. By the way, I do believe Shapiro "Scolded" AA because he wanted to be in better position for when he takes over. Which is a total dipshit move. Getting value for your buck is always good, but sometimes you have to bend a bit because of the win curb. Value whores like him and Cherrington are hard to trade with as well, they overvalue their players more.

 

They offered him a 5-year deal.

[Frenchsoup]

Shapiro is going to love Pompey, the Jays were going to trade Pompey this offseason because they know that he's soft inside and will never meet his potential.

[Rusty_Savage]

Guy on radio says no one likes to make trades with Shapiro. True or false?

 

If it's on the radio it must be true

[thatoneguy]

With Gibbons, yes. With Anthopoulos, a little less so but certainly enough to be noticeable.

 

However, I like the Shapiro hire, and if you read the Donaldson trade thread I was practically s***ing myself I was so happy. I just didn't like the way AA built this team from 2013-15, and the fact that people are making him out to be a hero while s***ing all over a very intelligent baseball guy like Shapiro is very disappointing. Hence why I'm speaking out against it. I think people are so happy to finally make the playoffs that some can't see the forest for the trees anymore.

 

Props for the clarification.

 

And yes, just take one look at Twitter and it is a total shitfest, people unabashedly flaming Shapiro, Rogers, etc.

 

Also French, have you even read anything today about this situation? Really seems like you haven't.

[Slugger]

Well they offered AA a 1yr deal with an option for the assistant GM role. Shapiro/Rogers know he would never take that. So there being dicks about that low-ball offer. By the way, I do believe Shapiro "Scolded" AA because he wanted to be in better position for when he takes over. Which is a total dipshit move. Getting value for your buck is always good, but sometimes you have to bend a bit because of the win curb. Value whores like him and Cherrington are hard to trade with as well, they overvalue their players more.

 

Holy.

[Frenchsoup]

And also the fact he can't play CF. He's a corner.

[Ehjays]

They just hired Mike Hazen you nimrod

 

I know who they hired but I still believe thats where he goes........nimrod

[Frenchsoup]

Shapiro better be attacking this offseason, that's all i can say. This team is ready to win this year.

[BTS]

With Gibbons, yes. With Anthopoulos, a little less so but certainly enough to be noticeable.

 

However, I like the Shapiro hire, and if you read the Donaldson trade thread I was practically s***ing myself I was so happy. I just didn't like the way AA built this team from 2013-15, and the fact that people are making him out to be a hero while s***ing all over a very intelligent baseball guy like Shapiro is very disappointing. Hence why I'm speaking out against it. I think people are so happy to finally make the playoffs that some can't see the forest for the trees anymore.

 

I think the playoff drought has given the casual fans an unrealistic view of how impressive making the playoffs actually was. One ALCS appearance in six years on a top-10 payroll is not a huge accomplishment. Don't get me wrong the 2015 team was excellent, but the model wasn't sustainable.

[BigCecil]

I liked AA(in the last year) but this might be the greatest day of the year for the Jays.

 

Its a done deal and I'm taking it as a total positive. Shapiro has balls to go with talent. He has put it all on him right from the get go by sticking to his guns on areas of authority. I like that and I'm excited to see what moves are made as a long time fan.

[baubau]

Shapiro is going to love Pompey, the Jays were going to trade Pompey this offseason because they know that he's soft inside and will never meet his potential.

 

Hey bro. Imma let you finish. But mind telling me what tomorrow night lottery tickets are first with that crystal ball of yours?

[BTS]

http://www.foxsports.com/ohio/story/a-conversation-with-the-indians-mark-shapiro-102512

 

Not sure if this was posted yet, but some highlights:

 

Q: That was a decade and a half ago, really. Fifteen years. Do you think people, the general populace still judges in those terms?

 

A: I think it frames that very guttural reaction, like, "Hey, if you win it's already been shown people will come." That's what you hear all the time.

 

Q: Do you believe that?

 

A: I think more people will come. But the challenge is 2.2 million instead of 1.6 million doesn't change the way we operate. Even that extra 500,000, 600,000 people, even if that's $10-to-15 more million in revenue a year . . . one win in free agency is $9 million. So you're not going to change the context. Again, I don't think people want to intellectualize baseball, and I don't believe you should have to intellectualize baseball . . . and we've made a conscious decision in most of our interviews not to get into these topics and just stay positive and talk about what our aspirations are.

 

But that revenue swing between 1.5 million in attendance and 2.2 million in attendance . . . meaningful dollars but not dollars that will have us plan dramatically different.

 

Q: It wouldn't change the amount of money spent?

 

A: It would change the amount of spent to 15 million dollars a year. What does that buy you in free agency? Very little. One and a half wins.

 

Q: How is that figure determined?

 

A: Our analysts can put a value on what it costs in free agency to sign a player and what that means in Wins Above Replacement and what those players end up costing in free agency and that changes every year. They measure all the players signed in free agency and what their history has been and what they offer going forward and they place a value. The challenge in free agency is you're often paying for that in the first year of a contract, and in the out years of a contract the players WAR usually goes down because he's usually past his prime. So it becomes a less efficient contract over time. That's why free agency is never the best way to build. It's a good way to supplement but not build.

 

Q: So $8 million for one win?

 

A: It's $9 (million) now. It was $8 (million) two yeas ago. I think at the end of this year they figured out it was nine. And when those wins come in the win curve are important. What does that win mean if it's the difference between 80 and 81? Very little. But if that win's the difference between 89 and 90, that could be a meaningful win.

 

Q: Aren't there certain players though that could be worth more than that? The right guy and the right fit could mean more than that?

 

A: I think there are certain players at certain positions that might be able to leverage impact on other players. Like a catcher for sure. Maybe a leadership component. More than stats alone. We factor those things in. There are certain subjective roles to what certain guys bring to the table beyond just the objective analysis of ‘this is what their added value is.'

 

But you have to find some way to place a value on what guys bring to the table. We don't use those conventional stats. We use our own methodology. It does factor subjective and scouting information and makeup and personality and character and all those things in. In the end you're adding up and trying to determine how many wins that player impacts when you bring him on board. That's what you're trying to figure out.

 

Q: So at some point you all sit back and say this is what this player could mean in terms of wins.

 

A: Yeah. Either runs created or runs prevented. Ultimately you're trying to impact those two areas of the team. The position player can impact both those areas, and sometimes the runs created gets looked at disproportionally to the runs prevented. And sometimes the sum of the guy's value in offensive performance is undermined by some of his defensive value.

[Spanky99]

Exactly, I think it has to come down to Shapiro wanting a say in player personnel and AA not getting the full autonomy he has earned, and deserves.

 

This sucks.

 

It has to have came down to this, he was asked on the Tim and Sid show, and also by McCown on PTS, he wouldn't comment, no one walks away from a 5 year extension and raise. It had to be about full autonomy.

[Spanky99]

I think the playoff drought has given the casual fans an unrealistic view of how impressive making the playoffs actually was. One ALCS appearance in six years on a top-10 payroll is not a huge accomplishment. Don't get me wrong the 2015 team was excellent, but the model wasn't sustainable.

 

So are you and Hurl back on board? Both Beeston and Alex are gone now.

[BTS]

So are you and Hurl back on board? Both Beeston and Alex are gone now.

 

Back and excited for ST.

[saskjayfan]

Back and excited for ST.

 

so you speaking for Hurl, or you the same person

[Frenchsoup]

Hey bro. Imma let you finish. But mind telling me what tomorrow night lottery tickets are first with that crystal ball of yours?

 

Im not sure, i can't tell you blind lucky things.