Alex Anthopoulos Departing

[Grant77]

The results have been excellent for a two months out of 6 years. It was the greatest two months in the last 20 years. And it is very fair to bring it up.

 

Grant - " I am Grant. The results have been excellent for the last two months. I believe this will continue. I am Grant and I love AA"

 

If you said the above people would like you. However you talk like a weasel. You have huge recency bias and cherry pick a lot The results as a whole have not been excellent.

 

2013 all-in year -- not excellent.

 

Halladay trade -- not excellent (in a weird way the jury is still out, because Devon Travis is indirectly a product of that deal)

 

The results as a whole have been excellent. That is a lie, you are a liar. The results have been mixed, with the best moments the most recent.

 

I was talking about his drafting track record, not the team as a whole.

[Dr. Dinger]

Bringing up the 'he didn't draft Mike Trout' argument is total horseshit and you know it. Tony Reagins drafted him, the same guy that traded for Vernon Wells. I won't argue over the semantics of the word elite, but having one of the best drafting front offices gave me comfort that we would be a fairly competitive team on a perpetual basis.

 

What are you basing this statement on? Can you quantify that for us with WAR, or at least give specific examples of prospects that you feel we mined that other teams overlooked? Other than Syndergaard, there aren't any prospects that AA was ahead of the curve on. Stroman fell due to size concerns, not because he was an unknown.

[L54]

I wake up and there is already 14 pages. I love this board.

[Dr. Dinger]

Barf

 

Particularly egregious.

[Grant77]

I think that was Josh Sale, the Tampa wash out.

 

No, it was Chris Sale. I was also tops on the Kris Bryant bandwagon, but admittedly with some mistakes on the way (Zach Stewart, lol).

[TheHurl]

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img853/698/rvcl.gif

 

f*** you SMOKEY. This one was reserved for me. King or GD made that just so that I could play it when AA's ass was fired. Didn't exactly work out that way...but still you stole my thunder. I'm not sure if you and I can ever be the same again

[Dr. Dinger]

No, it was Chris Sale. I was also tops on the Kris Bryant bandwagon, but admittedly with some mistakes on the way (Zach Stewart, lol).

 

We were all very hot for the Jays to sign Bryant, but we also all knew it a huge longshot. A worthy risk, but in retrospect they should have tried to pony up more money.

[KingKat]

Lawis saying Shapiro is going to tear down this team. How do you tear down a team that just went to ALCS and is coming back with the best offense in baseball

 

Horrible if true

 

Law says a lot things. He also said the Marlins didn't get enough from the Jays in the big trade.

[glory]

AA left Shapiro with an old team with a one year window to win before s*** hits the fan. I'd be pretty pissed too.

[Stangstag]

Lawis saying Shapiro is going to tear down this team. How do you tear down a team that just went to ALCS and is coming back with the best offense in baseball

 

Horrible if true

 

"Speculating"

[fatcowxlive]

f*** you SMOKEY. This one was reserved for me. King or GD made that just so that I could play it when AA's ass was fired. Didn't exactly work out that way...but still you stole my thunder. I'm not sure if you and I can ever be the same again

 

That's a bannable offence!

 

hehehe

[Olerud363]

I was talking about his drafting track record, not the team as a whole.

 

OK then... but the same holds. The Jury is still out. If Pompey, Alford, Stroman, and a couple of others come through his drafting record will look a lot better.

 

Your pretty good at taking abuse in stride... I'll try in the future to be less aggressive with my replies... just argue the issues and not go over the top.

[Pulk_Pull]

Couple observations...

 

1) Anyone blaming a single party on this outcome is being naive. Everyone had a hand in this. Whether it was Rogers clearly not caring about their current GM in place while searching and hiring a new Team Pres, or AA not putting the team before his personal motivations, this is the result of a year long clusterf*** at the management level. Frankly, we should all saw this coming...

 

2) Whether you view this outcome as good or bad is completely related to how you feel a successful on the field product is developed. AA's methodology of drafting and developing to use prospects as assets in trades to bring players who would not sign in Toronto is a polarizing one. On the other hand, developing a strong farm system does not guarantee success either.

 

Bottom line, it's a very interesting move, but one we should of predicted. I can understand the people who are upset, and the people who are happy.

 

 

Side Note: For those that want to say this is all on AA for his decision. How would you feel if you came into your job today, a job you have had for half a decade, and a new boss shows up. His first mandate is to change how you work and measure success, and that he would like to micromanage every task you perform. I doubt blame AA one bit for wanting to leave. While the new contract didn't change his title, it sure was a demotion from a responsibility and power perspective.

[TheHurl]

I'm in Toronto mid-November. Can you host?

 

by host you mean "be the cracker" right?

[HERPDERP]

Hmm

 

I have a strong feeling that Rogers may actually drop payroll down and AA wasn't happy about this. And Shapiro was brought in since he has experience with lower payrolls.

 

And Rogers will point to the Mets and Royals as small market teams that know how to compete with less money.

[TheHurl]

Side Note: For those that want to say this is all on AA for his decision. How would you feel if you came into your job today, a job you have had for half a decade, and a new boss shows up. His first mandate is to change how you work and measure success, and that he would like to micromanage every task you perform. I doubt blame AA one bit for wanting to leave. While the new contract didn't change his title, it sure was a demotion from a responsibility and power perspective.

 

I don't have an ego, so I'd be okay with it

[KingKat]

While the new contract didn't change his title, it sure was a demotion from a responsibility and power perspective.

 

We don't know that. Maybe AA's issue is that he thought he should be more than just the GM.

[Grant77]

What are you basing this statement on? Can you quantify that for us with WAR, or at least give specific examples of prospects that you feel we mined that other teams overlooked? Other than Syndergaard, there aren't any prospects that AA was ahead of the curve on. Stroman fell due to size concerns, not because he was an unknown.

 

It's early to do a comprehensive study if I even had the time, but it's just an opinion and I'll explain my logic. We've traded away more prospect capital in the past calendar year than more than half of the leagues have in their top 10 prospects. You're talking 3 top 50 guys (or close), which is rather impressive for a team with a bunch of high picks, let alone one with mostly mediocre ones. Despite that fact, we're still in a fairly strong position with a system in the upper half of the league, though probably not top 10 anymore. That similar type of success is what makes a team like the Cardinals or Giants good.

[Molitor]

I'm trying to separate my desire for retribution from how I feel about this. I've been so bitter about the Dickey trade for years that a big part of me wants to see AA punished for it even to this day. At the same time, I believe AA has been slowly getting better and does indeed learn from his mistakes. The Price trade looks terrible now as well (and really that was going to happen with anything less than a WS), but I don't think it was nearly as bad. AA at least correctly assessed that the team was better than their record and gave up a top prospect but one that was showing warts at least. The Donaldson trade was stellar. Martin signing was very good. The Revere trade was defensible, the Tulowitzki trade was defensible (although I have a slight Reyes 2.0 vibe from him). There's a lot of recent good here.

 

So in the end, a part of me is saying "f*** you" to AA, but if I'm objective and take emotion out of it: this is bad. When you invest in a person who has lot of upside and good attributes, but is lacking in experience, you have to ride it out for a while. Seems like we're letting him go just as he's starting to come into his own.

 

Granted, I don't know the full details. Maybe the Jays put something very reasonable in front of him and he rejected it because he completely overrates himself, who knows.

[Grant77]

We were all very hot for the Jays to sign Bryant, but we also all knew it a huge longshot. A worthy risk, but in retrospect they should have tried to pony up more money.

 

I meant drafting him in the first place, right from the second round.

[Governator]

Hmm

 

I have a strong feeling that Rogers may actually drop payroll down and AA wasn't happy about this. And Shapiro was brought in since he has experience with lower payrolls.

 

And Rogers will point to the Mets and Royals as small market teams that know how to compete with less money.

 

 

I expected that exact scenario if the Jays were not contending and not bringing sellouts the last 2 months of the season, something they haven't done in years. However, there was every reason to believe that would continue next year with possible record breaking numbers for the franchise.

[TheHurl]

We don't know that. Maybe AA's issue is that he thought he should be more than just the GM.

 

I can guarantee you this is the issue. Several insiders noted this when the whole Duquette stuff happened...AA expected to succeed Beest and had his GM (Tinnish) hand picked.

[TDotttt2005]

I don't see how you can blame Shapiro. If you're brought into a job, and will be judged on your ultimate success, don't you want to be comfortable with the decisions the people working below you are making? It's clear that Shapiro didn't agree with some of the things AA wanted to do.

 

The blame for AA leaving, should be placed squarely on Rogers shoulders. They put AA and Shapiro in an untenable situation. Odds are that Rogers wanted to clean house back in June, when the team was struggling, and they brought in Shapiro to do so...but not right then, but in November. The problem with that, is that they let the old regime, Beeston and AA, continue in their jobs, which they did, turned this whole thing around, and now this situation is clusterf***.

 

If you want to bring in someone to clean house, then bring in someone in to clean house. If not, dont. Dont bring in someone, and let the former occupants of the house build it into a multimillion dollar mansion.

 

Its a lose lose situation, and doing business the way they did, Rogers is solely responsible for coming out losers.

[Travis_Snider]

well this sucks

[Governator]

I can guarantee you this is the issue. Several insiders noted this when the whole Duquette stuff happened...AA expected to succeed Beest and had his GM (Tinnish) hand picked.

 

But I thought you had a strong feeling it was regarding payroll?

 

 

badum pssh

[TheHurl]

We were all very hot for the Jays to sign Bryant, but we also all knew it a huge longshot. A worthy risk, but in retrospect they should have tried to pony up more money.

 

What would have Bryant's K-Rates been if the 2010 era Jays got their hands on him?

[BeRoyal]

Hmm

 

I have a strong feeling that Rogers may actually drop payroll down and AA wasn't happy about this. And Shapiro was brought in since he has experience with lower payrolls.

 

And Rogers will point to the Mets and Royals as small market teams that know how to compete with less money.

 

before the trade deadline the Toronto payroll was not much more than KC. Also when did NY become a small market?

[fatcowxlive]

Apparently Francona has an opt-out clause that was triggered when Shapiro left(?). I would love it if Francona comes here

[Jonn]

[Boxcar]

Why are we going to blame him on the record? He came here with a s***** team and terrible farm system.

 

He gamed the system with those supplemental picks and was able to quickly turn around the minor league system.

 

He hasn't had an absolutely terrible trade other than the Napoli trade. The Marlins deal was a loss, but it wasn't devastating as we got use out of Buehrle and Reyes flipped for Tulo. And at least with Dickey we had a reliable +200 IP guy.

 

Why opine if you're so uninformed? I don't blame people for wishing AA would've stayed but holy f*** at least know what you're talking about somewhat.