What is needed next year so that the Jays keep winning?

[Spanky99]

I think they trade for one, and junk heap about 5 or 6 and hope one sticks. Throw the rest back or into the pen.

 

Not a bad philosophy.

[Spanky99]

Tell that to David Murphy. Good hitting also beats good pitching.

 

It's still all noise in a small sample when the game is set up to fail at the plate, this whole theory both ways is horseshit. I mean holy f***, Pat Borders won the WS MVP?

[Spanky99]

I hope this is sarcasm.

 

Dripping in it.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Did you see my post on Cecil, he might be back for the World Series, when we get there.

 

I sure did, I said this I few days back!!! Lol

 

Nobody respects BBBB and the power of Rum!!! Lol

[Spanky99]

I sure did, I said this I few days back!!! Lol

 

Nobody respects BBBB and the power of Rum!!! Lol

 

Sheeeit, I hung out with the Captain and Sir Bacardi last night. Good times by all!!!

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Rum is always Fun!!! I like buying that cheap Kracken Rum take it to Bush Parties !!!

 

Just sooo I can scream " Release the Kracken" good times,try it!!! Lol

[Spanky99]

Rum is always Fun!!! I like buying that cheap Kracken Rum take it to Bush Parties !!!

 

Just sooo I can scream " Release the Kracken" good times,try it!!! Lol

 

The big problem was that s*** was white last night, meh, threw a plash of coke, and it was dark, lol. I'd rather good rye and single malt scotch, but I really couldn't care less.

[Olerud363]

I hope this is sarcasm.

 

Sarcasm. I'm not that religious myself, but don't have strong feeling for or against organized religion.

 

I do have strong feeling against those who believe baseball gogmas like "good pitching beats good hitting" (except when it doesn't).

[Krylian]

I hope this is sarcasm.

 

Jesus can help you hit a curveball.

 

Go to church. You'll see.

[Spanky99]

Jesus can help you hit a curveball.

 

Go to church. You'll see.

 

Meh, Jobu takes care of that s***.

[Krylian]

Meh, Jobu takes care of that s***.

 

f*** you, Jobu!

 

Jesus will do it himself.

[Captain Adama]

Meh, Jobu takes care of that s***.

 

Jesus and Jobu both couldn't hit curveballs!

[Spanky99]

Meh, Jobu takes care of that s***.

 

f*** you, Jobu!

 

Jesus will do it himself.

 

Jesus and Jobu both couldn't hit curveballs!

 

 

f***ing love this s***!!

[OBPlover]

Dumb, bonds destroyed hall of fame pitchers too.

 

How can you use one Baseball's all time greatest cheaters as your sole example?

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/does-good-pitching-beat-good-hitting-in-october/

[Atothe]

How can you use one Baseball's all time greatest cheaters as your sole example?

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/does-good-pitching-beat-good-hitting-in-october/

 

Lots of players cheated, grow up

[o2cui2i]

How can you use one Baseball's all time greatest cheaters as your sole example?

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/does-good-pitching-beat-good-hitting-in-october/

 

yeah... damn those juiced hitters facing juiced pitchers.... how dare they.

[dineke]

How can you use one Baseball's all time greatest cheaters as your sole example?

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/does-good-pitching-beat-good-hitting-in-october/

 

This is what you said:

 

"Babe Ruths and Mickey Mantles absolutely destroyed any average or below average pitchers. But against Hall of Fame pitchers? nothing"

 

Idiotic.

[OBPlover]

This is what you said:

 

"Babe Ruths and Mickey Mantles absolutely destroyed any average or below average pitchers. But against Hall of Fame pitchers? nothing"

 

Idiotic.

 

 

I don't mean literally "nothing". You can understand an expression, can you not?

 

They have significantly worse OPS vs hall of fame pitchers than against avg pitchers of their respective eras.

 

For example,

 

Bob gibson vs Hank Aaron, Aaron only had a career .700 ish OPS against gibson vs .950 or so OPS for his entire career.

 

You also completely ignored the article I posted evaluating the effects of great pitching in the playoffs.

[nmrch]

How can you use one Baseball's all time greatest cheaters as your sole example?

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/does-good-pitching-beat-good-hitting-in-october/

 

It doesn't matter, the idea that good pitching destroys good hitting is just nonsense, END OF STORY. There is no study that proves or even suggests what you're saying.

 

On the other hand, we have a good tool to predict what the outcomes of at bats woudl be based on hitter vs pitcher strengths. Check out this tool, and plug in theoretical numbers, like peak Bonds vs peak Pedro or Harper vs Kershaw.

http://bbbnumbers.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-outcome-machine-predicting-at-bats.html

Edited October 23, 2015 by nmrch

[OBPlover]

Lots of players cheated, grow up

 

I couldn't care a less.

[nmrch]

I don't mean literally "nothing". You can understand an expression, can you not?

 

They have significantly worse OPS vs hall of fame pitchers than against avg pitchers of their respective eras.

 

For example,

 

Bob gibson vs Hank Aaron, Aaron only had a career .700 ish OPS against gibson vs .950 or so OPS for his entire career.

 

You also completely ignored the article I posted evaluating the effects of great pitching in the playoffs.

 

Ofcourse they have worse numbers are good pitchers than average pitchers, that doesn't prove what you think it does. Great pitchers also have worse numbers against good hitters than they do against mediocre hitters. That;s not saying anything and it doesn't really back up what you and some others have been saying.

 

There is no evidence that good pitching disproportionately dominates good hitting more than the other way around.

[OBPlover]

It doesn't matter, the idea that good pitching destroys good hitting is just nonsense, END OF STORY. There is no study that proves or even suggests what you're saying.

 

On the other hand, we have a good tool to predict what the outcomes of at bats based on hitter vs pitcher strengths. Check out this tool, and plug in theoritical numbers, like peak Bonds vs peak Pedro or Harper vs Kershaw.

http://bbbnumbers.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-outcome-machine-predicting-at-bats.html

 

You don't even need an article. You can see the evidence with your own eyes. You did see Volquez just shut down our Blue Jays, did you not? (The very epitome of a good hitting team). What do you think hitters can do against pitchers capable of throwing 95-99 MPH fastballs and hitting corners?

 

Now the trick is, why do some pitchers capable of great stuff/control in the regular season falter in the playoffs. But that is not a question that can be answered with statistics.

[Boxcar]

You don't even need an article. You can see the evidence with your own eyes. You did see Volquez just shut down our Blue Jays, did you not? (The very epitome of a good hitting team). What do you think hitters can do against pitchers capable of throwing 95-99 MPH fastballs and hitting corners?

 

Now the trick is, why do some pitchers capable of great stuff/control in the regular season falter in the playoffs. But that is not a question that can be answered with statistics.

 

No, it's definitely a question that can be answered by whatever reason pops into Harold Reynolds' head.

[thatoneguy]

Bob gibson vs Hank Aaron, Aaron only had a career .700 ish OPS against gibson vs .950 or so OPS for his entire career.

 

You also completely ignored the article I posted evaluating the effects of great pitching in the playoffs.

 

Nevermind the fact that Bob Gibson's prime came in an era that strongly favoured pitchers (resulting in the lowering of the mound and shrinking of the strike zone after the 1968 season). Not that he wasn't a fantastic pitcher, but you can't just throw things like this out there without consideration of eras.

 

You don't even need an article. You can see the evidence with your own eyes. You did see Volquez just shut down our Blue Jays, did you not? (The very epitome of a good hitting team). What do you think hitters can do against pitchers capable of throwing 95-99 MPH fastballs and hitting corners?

 

Now the trick is, why do some pitchers capable of great stuff/control in the regular season falter in the playoffs. But that is not a question that can be answered with statistics.

 

Well no s*** they can't do much, but very few pitchers can do this all or even most of the time, even the really great ones.

[nmrch]

You don't even need an article. You can see the evidence with your own eyes. You did see Volquez just shut down our Blue Jays, did you not? (The very epitome of a good hitting team). What do you think hitters can do against pitchers capable of throwing 95-99 MPH fastballs and hitting corners?

 

Now the trick is, why do some pitchers capable of great stuff/control in the regular season falter in the playoffs. But that is not a question that can be answered with statistics.

 

What are you talking about? Volquez was terrible yesterday, he was okay in Kansas City but overall he's hardly dominated the Jays. And he wasn't locating jack btw, he walked a combined 8 guys in a 11 innings against the Jays in the post season. Besides for every example of good pitchers that dominate in the playoffs i can give you a hitter that has great numbers in the playoffs.

 

As for the second part of your post i really don't get it, haven't you been arguing that pitching dominates in the post season?

[Grant77]

What are you talking about? Volquez was terrible yesterday, he was okay in Kansas City but overall he's hardly dominated the Jays. And he wasn't locating jack btw, he walked a combined 8 guys in a 11 innings against the Jays in the post season. Besides for every example of good pitchers that dominate in the playoffs i can give you a hitter that has great numbers in the playoffs.

 

As for the second part of your post i really don't get it, haven't you been arguing that pitching dominates in the post season?

 

What's with you being such a jackass to everyone who points that out? You ignored it when I proved you wrong the last time, so I'll do it again.

 

Approximately 25% fewer runs are scored in the playoffs. That's not debatable. The reason is increased innings from top pitchers, but that still leaves us with the fact that pitching is better in the postseason.

[art_vandelay275]

I think boy wonder gives a pretty good summary of what most of us are trying to convey here with this thread ... some more articulate than others. Coming off a 97 win season, knocking out 98 and 100 win teams only to be swept by a 90 win team, I'd think he brings a pretty good perspective 24 hours after the "depths of despair" as he puts it...

 

cliff notes: Playoffs are a crap shoot; best team doesn't always win. It's about peaking at the right time. All you can do is to build a team that's good enough to keep knocking at the door each year and hope that at some point, the door will open

 

btw, babcock said similar things in his introductory press conf back in May; used a similar analogy IIRC or maybe i'm mixing the two but essentially same idea

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/cubs-theo-epstein-compares-mets-tidal-wave

[OBPlover]

What are you talking about? Volquez was terrible yesterday, he was okay in Kansas City but overall he's hardly dominated the Jays. And he wasn't locating jack btw, he walked a combined 8 guys in a 11 innings against the Jays in the post season. Besides for every example of good pitchers that dominate in the playoffs i can give you a hitter that has great numbers in the playoffs.

 

As for the second part of your post i really don't get it, haven't you been arguing that pitching dominates in the post season?

 

 

I think you're just being stubborn. If not Volquez, then look at any other time the Blue Jays got beat by a good pitcher this year.

 

Most hits, especially extra base hits, come against mistakes. The hanging curveball, the fastball in the middle of the plate or the pitch thrown in a hitter's known hot zone. The better pitchers make these kinds of mistakes less frequently. Plus, when they do make mistakes with location, they can sometimes get away with it as long as they have "Plus stuff"(speed, movement etc). Whether it's Ryan goins or Josh Donaldson, hitters do not have the ability to turn a plus pitch, with good location into hits with any frequency. The difference between JD and RG is that when there is a mistake, JD will rarely miss it. This is why good pitching beats good hitting.

[Grant77]

I think boy wonder gives a pretty good summary of what most of us are trying to convey here with this thread ... some more articulate than others. Coming off a 97 win season, knocking out 98 and 100 win teams only to be swept by a 90 win team, I'd think he brings a pretty good perspective 24 hours after the "depths of despair" as he puts it...

 

cliff notes: Playoffs are a crap shoot; best team doesn't always win. It's about peaking at the right time. All you can do is to build a team that's good enough to keep knocking at the door each year and hope that at some point, the door will open

 

btw, babcock said similar things in his introductory press conf back in May; used a similar analogy IIRC or maybe i'm mixing the two but essentially same idea

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/cubs-theo-epstein-compares-mets-tidal-wave

 

Estrada is great, but you need to bring back George!

[Grant77]

I think you're just being stubborn. If not Volquez, then look at any other time the Blue Jays got beat by a good pitcher this year.

 

Most hits, especially extra base hits, come against mistakes. The hanging curveball, the fastball in the middle of the plate or the pitch thrown in a hitter's known hot zone. The better pitchers make these kinds of mistakes less frequently. Plus, when they do make mistakes with location, they can sometimes get away with it as long as they have "Plus stuff"(speed, movement etc). Whether it's Ryan goins or Josh Donaldson, hitters do not have the ability to turn a plus pitch, with good location into hits with any frequency. The difference between JD and RG is that when there is a mistake, JD will rarely miss it. This is why good pitching beats good hitting.

 

That's all conjecture. Do you have any real evidence to back that up? I could just as easily say the opposite. Cliff Pennington is 4-9 with a bomb against Wade Davis and Josh Donaldson is 2-29 (.087) against Jason Vargas.