Official MiLB/Prospects Thread

[Spanky__99]

. He’s so overweight he would probably lose a lot of weight regardless.

 

You've seen him?

[Spanky__99]

Varsho has done literally nothing to warrant playing everyday moving forward. He’s at best a platoon player moving forward. Look at his career OPS and wrc against Lefties. And tell me again why he should be playing against them. I’ll wait.

 

CF defense and BSR, it's that simple.

[Jonn]

CF defense and BSR, it's that simple.

 

Ok he can do that against righties but he needs a platoon partner.

[Spanky__99]

Ok he can do that against righties but he needs a platoon partner.

 

A weak side CF platoon shouldn't be too hard to find.

[max silver]

Varsho has done literally nothing to warrant playing everyday moving forward. He’s at best a platoon player moving forward. Look at his career OPS and wrc against Lefties. And tell me again why he should be playing against them. I’ll wait.

 

Varsho has hit lefties better than righties this season, and that was also the case in his half season in 2021 as well. He's still inexperienced enough at the major leauge level that's he is far from a finished product at the plate.

[Jonn]

A weak side CF platoon shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

As long as they find it I’m good. But they need a stick in LF. Can’t roll with 2 defensive first players in the OF.

 

Kiermaier provides so much value at his price point it’s almost frustrating to lose that.

[Spanky__99]

As long as they find it I’m good. But they need a stick in LF. Can’t roll with 2 defensive first players in the OF.

 

Kiermaier provides so much value at his price point it’s almost frustrating to lose that.

 

LF is a whole different issue come this offseason. Like you were backing Grubers 30% comment which is asinine.

[Jonn]

Varsho has hit lefties better than righties this season, and that was also the case in his half season in 2021 as well. He's still inexperienced enough at the major leauge level that's he is far from a finished product at the plate.

 

He doesn’t hit for any extra base power vs Lefties. He’s basically a slap hitter against them. You can’t just look at the batting average and say hes fine against them. He’s been horrendous hitting period this season but all 12 of his Homeruns are against righties and 11 of his 13 doubles.

 

Last year tells a larger story.

[max silver]

As long as they find it I’m good. But they need a stick in LF. Can’t roll with 2 defensive first players in the OF.

 

Kiermaier provides so much value at his price point it’s almost frustrating to lose that.

 

The thing to keep in mind is that if Varsho is able to return to being the player with the bat he was prior to becoming a Blue Jay he offers even more value than Kiermaier for a fraction of the cost, and without the inherent injury risks to potentially take him out of the lineup for large stretches of time.

[max silver]

He doesn’t hit for any extra base power vs Lefties. He’s basically a slap hitter against them. You can’t just look at the batting average and say hes fine against them. He’s been horrendous hitting period this season but all 12 of his Homeruns are against righties and 11 of his 13 doubles.

 

Last year tells a larger story.

 

So let me see if I have this right. Only last year's numbers count against left handed pitchers and not his 2021 and 2023 seasons. But when it comes to total offensive output only 2023 counts, and not his contributions from 2021 and 2022. I'm sure you can see why I take issue with this line of reasoning.

 

Varsho is so good in the field and on the bases that I'm perfectly fine if is more of a slap hitter against left handed pitching and a power threat against right handed pitching. All he has to do against LHP is basically hold his own and it's incredibly easy to justify playing him every day in center field.

[Jonn]

So let me see if I have this right. Only last year's numbers count against left handed pitchers and not his 2021 and 2023 seasons. But when it comes to total offensive output only 2023 counts, and not his contributions from 2021 and 2022. I'm sure you can see why I take issue with this line of reasoning.

 

Varsho is so good in the field and on the bases that I'm perfectly fine if is more of a slap hitter against left handed pitching and a power threat against right handed pitching. All he has to do against LHP is basically hold his own and it's incredibly easy to justify playing him every day in center field.

 

His .680 OPS is holding his own?

[max silver]

His .680 OPS is holding his own?

 

For a guy that is arguably MLB's best outfield defender, and in a split where he's going to receive the vast minority of his playing time given the relative scarcity of left handed pitching in MLB? Absolutely.

[THANOS]

It's not the Jays fault a player shows up fat. Individuals are responsible for their physical conditioning. You can lead a fatty to salad but you can't make him eat it

 

I mean sure, but clearly deferring the responsibility hasn't worked with Kirk, Vladdy, & Manoah.

 

At the end of the day, these are young investments that should be providing a ton of surplus value and helping the team, and all are underperforming with many pundits questions their conditioning for their ability to repeat things such as pitch clock mechanics, launch angle swings, etc.

 

Maybe they need micromanaging? You can place the blame on the individual all you want, but, whether they are to blame or not, they're still fat, underperforming and lowering their values.

[THANOS]

A) I wouldn’t recommend athletes living on salad

 

the professional baseball organization should be sophisticated enough to send him home with step by step instructions for the offseason and check in bi weekly to ensure adherence. It’s really not that difficult

 

Absolutely this.

[L54]

He should be increasing his protein intake and eating whole foods. The assumption that salad is good for you has to stop. The common America salad is full of bad fats and bad carbs mostly because of the highly processed cheese and dressing they use.

 

He’s a professional athlete that should be both weight training and performing in game. So he needs a source of lean protein and healthy carbs and fat.

 

His issue is probably strictly portion sizes and snacking. Cuts that out the weight will fall off and he won’t have to restrict his diet that much. You can eat plenty of good tasty foods while maintaining a calorie deficit. I don’t think he should be in a deficit during the season but he should learn his maintenance calories. He’s so overweight he would probably lose a lot of weight regardless.

 

This is the jist of it yes. Very basic and elementary and simple for the team to monitor.

[Jonn]

This is the jist of it yes. Very basic and elementary and simple for the team to monitor.

 

The Blue Jays need to do a much better job of stressing good health and fitness. If you sign a professional contract you should be expected to show up in shape and ready to perform at the highest level.

[THANOS]

Irv Carter sucks

[John_Havok]

A) I wouldn’t recommend athletes living on salad

 

the professional baseball organization should be sophisticated enough to send him home with step by step instructions for the offseason and check in bi weekly to ensure adherence. It’s really not that difficult

 

It was a figure of speech. Teams can offer any assistance they want, at the end of the day it's the player that has to want to do it.

 

I get that people think signing a contract to play baseball for a team somehow gives that team the authority to control everything the athlete eats 365 days a year, but they don't.

 

They can only advise. The player is responsible for their own health

[THANOS]

It was a figure of speech. Teams can offer any assistance they want, at the end of the day it's the player that has to want to do it.

 

I get that people think signing a contract to play baseball for a team somehow gives that team the authority to control everything the athlete eats 365 days a year, but they don't.

 

They can only advise. The player is responsible for their own health

 

Sure, but standing back and watching players be irresponsible, year after year, after trying to give them polite guidance and hope they are mature enough, all the while lowering their productivity potential and overall value doesn't seem like a smart option either.

 

Whether the fault is the players or not, their lack of weight management is clearly hindering all of their performance in different ways.

[John_Havok]

Sure, but standing back and watching players be irresponsible, year after year, after trying to give them polite guidance and hope they are mature enough, all the while lowering their productivity potential and overall value doesn't seem like a smart option either.

 

Whether the fault is the players or not, their lack of weight management is clearly hindering all of their performance in different ways.

 

I understand that. My point is a team can only advise, they can’t force a player to do literally anything in the off-season. Yes, it sucks that grown ass athletes for some reason can’t figure out that being in better shape would probably be better for them. Seems like a no brainer.

 

But they cannot be forced. They only thing the Jays could do is keep them in the minors as long as they can as some sort of “punishment”, release them, trade them…whatever. But what’s the upside in that for a guy like Kirk? Even as he is he still provides more wins than half the catchers in baseball, and you know there’s more upside there since we’ve already seen it. Punishing Kirk by keeping him in the minors or releasing him only hurts the team, so you’re left with trades as the only way to get rid of him. Can’t do that unless you have another catcher ready to come in and be Jansen’s injury insurance that also provides the same value as Kirk, otherwise again, just hurting the team.

 

All the Jays can do is hope that each players struggles, perhaps combined with the example of Ryu returning with his lost weight and hopefully pitching well that it creates the lightbulb moment that they need to get their s*** together.

 

As for the draftee pitcher, he’s got lots of time to turn that around, hopefully it was just a result of him being away from the game for so long

[L54]

It was a figure of speech. Teams can offer any assistance they want, at the end of the day it's the player that has to want to do it.

 

I get that people think signing a contract to play baseball for a team somehow gives that team the authority to control everything the athlete eats 365 days a year, but they don't.

 

They can only advise. The player is responsible for their own health

 

Do you think teams only advise Tommy John rehab or do you think they have the a team of dedicated professionals overseeing the process?

 

I haven’t once said the team has authority to do anything. Those are your words not mine. But if your first round pick comes to camp fat do you allocate 100% of the blame on the 18 year old high schooler or does some of the blame fall on the major league team with nutritionists, physios, s&c coaches, biomechanic nerds, etc?

[WryNGinger]

The Yankees can have this policy and the Jays can't tell players to stay in shape?

 

)Since 1973, the New York Yankees has enforced an appearance policy regulating how their players must be presented. It states that players must have their hair cut above the collar of their baseball jersey and no beards are permitted.

 

Seems odd.

[Spanky__99]

Check out this web gem from Barger the other day...

 

[Daniel Labude]

Check out this web gem from Barger the other day...

 

 

I definitely didn't see that tweet 2 pages before

 

[max silver]

The Yankees can have this policy and the Jays can't tell players to stay in shape?

 

)Since 1973, the New York Yankees has enforced an appearance policy regulating how their players must be presented. It states that players must have their hair cut above the collar of their baseball jersey and no beards are permitted.

 

Seems odd.

 

This is a false equivalency. The Yankees rule is essentially an on field dress code and simply requires a player to shave and get short haircuts in season. A no fat player rule would directly police a players out of season eating habits which is something which would never fly with the players union.

[Jonn]

This is a false equivalency. The Yankees rule is essentially an on field dress code and simply requires a player to shave and get short haircuts in season. A no fat player rule would directly police a players out of season eating habits which is something which would never fly with the players union.

 

What about not being fat out of self respect for yourself. What happened to that?

[max silver]

What about not being fat out of self respect for yourself. What happened to that?

 

Some people are obviously less worried about that than others. Like if some people are happiest enjoying what they eat and place more value in this vs the size of their waist then so be it. This obviously is far from ideal in a professional athlete but before this season each of Kirk and Manoah were top performers with similarly robust physiques compared to what they are featuring this season.

[John_Havok]

What about not being fat out of self respect for yourself. What happened to that?

 

THis is my point entirely. Its on the individual.

[Jonn]

Some people are obviously less worried about that than others. Like if some people are happiest enjoying what they eat and place more value in this vs the size of their waist then so be it. This obviously is far from ideal in a professional athlete but before this season each of Kirk and Manoah were top performers with similarly robust physiques compared to what they are featuring this season.

 

You would think as a professional athlete you would want to make maximize your potential performance. If not for the love the game. Your earning potential. It’s just strange to me. Nobody is telling these guys nerd to be shredded to the bone and under 10 percent body fat. We’re setting the bar at just being in shape to perform at your job. It requires just a little self care and discipline.

[Pendleton]