Official MiLB/Prospects Thread

[The Cats Ass]

If you're the Jays do you call up Tiedemann, Frasso, and Zulueta in September to pitch in the pen? See how they perform, with the idea of potentially adding 1 or 2 of them for the playoffs to add a good arm to the pen.

[Laika]

If you're the Jays do you call up Tiedemann, Frasso, and Zulueta in September to pitch in the pen? See how they perform, with the idea of potentially adding 1 or 2 of them for the playoffs to add a good arm to the pen.

 

Yeah maybe

 

It would depend on my internal analysis of how they would transition to the pen. Like, scout and coach opinions.

 

Would call 'em up before September too

 

Toronto might HAVE to do something "irresponsible" like that

[Laika]

Every time I think about pitching prospect development and the tendency to leave players as starters forever, I think about Osuna, Castro, and Sanchez.

 

Osuna - absolutely the right decision to fire him straight into relief.

Castro - also the right decision even if it did not work out for Toronto really.

Sanchez - should have never been an MLB starter.

 

 

I know it's anecdotal...

[keggy]

Every time I think about pitching prospect development and the tendency to leave players as starters forever, I think about Osuna, Castro, and Sanchez.

 

Osuna - absolutely the right decision to fire him straight into relief.

Castro - also the right decision even if it did not work out for Toronto really.

Sanchez - should have never been an MLB starter.

 

 

I know it's anecdotal...

 

I always thought Osuna had the arsenal to be a starter. He just pitched so well as a reliever he never had that chance.

 

To me Castro had reliever written all over him.

 

And Sanchez literally won an ERA title as a starter he just couldn't stay healthy.

[The Cats Ass]

Every time I think about pitching prospect development and the tendency to leave players as starters forever, I think about Osuna, Castro, and Sanchez.

 

Osuna - absolutely the right decision to fire him straight into relief.

Castro - also the right decision even if it did not work out for Toronto really.

Sanchez - should have never been an MLB starter.

 

 

I know it's anecdotal...

 

For Sanchez I wouldn't say should have never been. He was 16th in WAR for pitchers in 2016, as a 23 year old, he was our only pitcher to win his start in the ALCS that year. Unfortunately it just never worked out for him. He was like Halladay in that he never had huge strikeout numbers, but he had the ability to shut the opposing team down.

[Brownie19]

Maybe doubling his innings pitched at 23 wasn't a great idea...

[Laika]

I always thought Osuna had the arsenal to be a starter. He just pitched so well as a reliever he never had that chance.

 

To me Castro had reliever written all over him.

 

And Sanchez literally won an ERA title as a starter he just couldn't stay healthy.

 

Sanchez got very lucky that year so saying "he won an ERA title" is hyperbolic as far as assessing his talent. Him not being able to stay healthy is kind of the whole point, but his command was also f***ing dogshit and not SP quality, evidently.

 

Same kind of thing with Osuna and injury risk. His mechanics probably don't hold up as a starter. And with the added stress of starting games, how many other women does he punch?

[Laika]

The Brewers have started their entire rotation in the bullpen. Woodruff, Burnes, Peralta, etc. All of them in the pen.

 

Yeah the Cards used to do this all the time.

 

Then teams became obsessed with control and you saw it less. Probably felt like it was wasting control using good arms as relievers.

 

But maybe there will be a return to that with the whole opener trend, and starters going shorter. If you track things we probably are already seeing it. Like, good prospects breaking in as long relievers who follow the openers.

[Spanky__99]

I don't see Tiedemann pitching in AA never mind the MLB in '22, dude's 19? I can certainly see them use an older spect, though. Jays should be trying to find an arm in Hernandez or Eisert now over, Sergio Effin Romo.

[Ehjays]

If you're the Jays do you call up Tiedemann, Frasso, and Zulueta in September to pitch in the pen? See how they perform, with the idea of potentially adding 1 or 2 of them for the playoffs to add a good arm to the pen.

 

No to the first 2 but yes to Zulu, I think he is rule 5 eligible this winter so why not see what you have. That is the move i would have made instead of Romo.

[Spanky__99]

No to the first 2 but yes to Zulu, I think he is rule 5 eligible this winter so why not see what you have. That is the move i would have made instead of Romo.

 

They want Zulueta starting though, later in the season makes sense as a reliever.

[RustyTrombone]

No to the first 2 but yes to Zulu, I think he is rule 5 eligible this winter so why not see what you have. That is the move i would have made instead of Romo.

 

I would say yes to Frasso as well. He was a college guy, he's already 23. I get he's coming back from TJ and you want to protect his innings but my idea would be let him pitch as a starter for another month and then come August turn convert him to a 1 or 2 IP guy and send him to AAA to get adjusted to the routine and then once he has a few games call him up. His stuff will clearly play in the MLB as will Zulus. They are both coming off seasons where they didn't pitch at all basically so let the both of them start for another month then send them to the pen to limit the amount of innings they throw. I mean s*** Zulu hasn't even thrown 40 innings this year and Frasso isn't even at 30 yet. So let them start for another month, then try em out as high powered relief options for the stretch run and potentially the playoffs.

 

Tiedemann I would leave alone. Let him come up as a starter. Don't wanna mess with him cause he looks like he could potentially be in the conversation for best pitching prospect in the game in a years time.

[max silver]

I don't see Tiedemann pitching in AA never mind the MLB in '22, dude's 19? I can certainly see them use an older spect, though. Jays should be trying to find an arm in Hernandez or Eisert now over, Sergio Effin Romo.

 

Why does it matter so much how old he is? I can't see any way he debuts in MLB this season but if he continues to dominate in high A to the degree that he has so far and he's hit the developmental milestones set in front of him then there's no reason to hold him back just because he's 19. Hitting AA this season leaves a good chance we see him in MLB next season. This front office has a history of aggressive placements for their top prospects, and Atkins is on record stating Tiedemann could retire MLB hitters already given his combination of raw stuff and command. If he's ready to be pushed for an appropriate challenge then so be it.

[Spanky__99]

Why does it matter so much how old he is? I can't see any way he debuts in MLB this season but if he continues to dominate in high A to the degree that he has so far and he's hit the developmental milestones set in front of him then there's no reason to hold him back just because he's 19. Hitting AA this season leaves a good chance we see him in MLB next season. This front office has a history of aggressive placements for their top prospects, and Atkins is on record stating Tiedemann could retire MLB hitters already given his combination of raw stuff and command. If he's ready to be pushed for an appropriate challenge then so be it.

 

I'm not saying he can't do it, I just don't see it happening, AA sure, but age and pro innings matter, bro. That'd be super aggressive if he were to jump to the MLB, not happening. IMO.

[Daniel Labude]

I don't see Tiedemann pitching in AA never mind the MLB in '22, dude's 19? I can certainly see them use an older spect, though. Jays should be trying to find an arm in Hernandez or Eisert now over, Sergio Effin Romo.

 

Tiedemann probably makes it to AA at the pace he is going. They won't being him up to the majors though. Best SP option to do so late innthe year would be Zulueta

[Laika]

With a hypothetical Tiedemann promotion the decision would be more like...

 

- He only has a few starts left in the minors anyway. So whether he pitches those ~16 innings in AA or the MLB pen might not make much difference

- Scouts think he would be a wipeout MLB reliever today

- Toronto desperate for bullpen help

 

So a few things would kind of need to come together. Very unlikely of course but there is a way to justify it.

 

Then in 2023 he's probably back to his usual MiLB SP routine at least to start the year...

[Eat My Shatkins]

Does anybody know what kind of stuff guys like Conor Larkin, Jimmy Burnette, Brandon Eisert, Connor Cooke, Trenton Wallace, Alejandro Melean, Braden Scott, etc have...or where I can go searching to find out?

 

Just curious if any of them have electric type secondaries and/or bring the velocity to the table as well. All of them are 21-24 years old and scattered all through out the Jays minors system and are putting up awesome K rates and xFIP's.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Both Frasso and Zulu have had TJS already IIRC, and they are 23/24 already. I could easily see them transitioned to the pen due to innings limits and end up in the Jays pen late in the season if they continue to steam roll their way up the ladder.

 

But then again the Jays are taking their sweet time with Hernandez and Eisert in AAA despite the pen injuries piling up, so who knows.

[Eat My Shatkins]

One guy who's been a disappointment this season is Graham Spraker. We all thought he was gonzo in the rule 5 draft because he had such a strong season last year and then topped it off with a strong showing in Arizona fall league, but then the rule 5 got canceled and we got to keep him.

 

His numbers all look decent except for the spike in BB/9 he's had this season, up over 7 for f*** sakes.

 

Good news is he's starting to look like he's turning it around. Hasn't walked a guy or given up a run in his last 4 appearances (4 2/3 innings) but is still striking guys out with 7 K's in that span.

[John_Havok]

Does anybody know what kind of stuff guys like Conor Larkin, Jimmy Burnette, Brandon Eisert, Connor Cooke, Trenton Wallace, Alejandro Melean, Braden Scott, etc have...or where I can go searching to find out?

 

Just curious if any of them have electric type secondaries and/or bring the velocity to the table as well. All of them are 21-24 years old and scattered all through out the Jays minors system and are putting up awesome K rates and xFIP's.

 

I think the thing i like the most about that list, is 4 of the 7 are Left handed.

[Eat My Shatkins]

I think the thing i like the most about that list, is 4 of the 7 are Left handed.

 

Yeah lots of lefty relievers with high K rates in the Jays system. Hopefully 1 or 2 of them hold up as they climb the ladder.

[John_Havok]

Yeah lots of lefty relievers with high K rates in the Jays system. Hopefully 1 or 2 of them hold up as they climb the ladder.

 

Tim Collins ruined me for high K rate reliever lefties as prospects

[max silver]

Tim Collins ruined me for high K rate reliever lefties as prospects

 

Why is that? He actually had a few pretty decent seasons out of the pen for the Royals.

[Krylian]

Why is that? He actually had a few pretty decent seasons out of the pen for the Royals.

 

242 career innings. 136 walks.

That's pretty bad

[InsideThePark]

With a hypothetical Tiedemann promotion the decision would be more like...

 

- He only has a few starts left in the minors anyway. So whether he pitches those ~16 innings in AA or the MLB pen might not make much difference

- Scouts think he would be a wipeout MLB reliever today

- Toronto desperate for bullpen help

 

So a few things would kind of need to come together. Very unlikely of course but there is a way to justify it.

 

Then in 2023 he's probably back to his usual MiLB SP routine at least to start the year...

 

How many innings do you think they want Ricky to throw? I had assumed this once per week 5 inning max was with the thought that he gets maybe 100-120 innings over the course of 20-24 weeks which pretty much gets him through the minor league season

[InsideThePark]

Maybe it's already been mentioned and I missed it, but does anyone know why Luis Meza hasn't played since June 14?

 

His Fangraphs page has him pitching 2.1 innings 3 days ago but I looked it up and it was Carlos Meza, abbreviated Meza, C which looks like Meza the catcher which would be Luis Meza. Someone messed that up somewhere along the way.

[John_Havok]

How many innings do you think they want Ricky to throw? I had assumed this once per week 5 inning max was with the thought that he gets maybe 100-120 innings over the course of 20-24 weeks which pretty much gets him through the minor league season

 

My guess would be somewhere around 80-90.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Adrian Hernandez hasn't pitched in 10 days so he must be injured.

 

Might be why he didn't get called up.

[Eat My Shatkins]

23 year old 2021 11th round pick Trenton Wallace continues to own A ball.

 

Started and went 4 innings today, and gave up no hits, no runs, 1 walk and 6 K's. 68 pitches, 46 strikes

 

Season stats, 12.62 K/9 - 2.78 BB/9 - 1.26 ERA - 2.95 xFIP - 0.76 WHIP in 35.2 innings

[Spanky__99]

Adrian Hernandez hasn't pitched in 10 days so he must be injured.

 

Might be why he didn't get called up.

 

Weird, maybe, he's not on the IL.