AA and Character

[AdamGreenwood]

When AA first became a general manager, he was a bit of a bargain hunter, picking up guys with known character defects - Colby Rasmus, Yunel Escobar, Brett Lawrie etc.

However, he's unloaded all of those guys, some of them at a discount, and gone out of his way to pick up some guys known to have good character (Price).

 

Question 1: Do you think having players with good character, helps team chemistry, which then helps teams focus on the game, thus generating more wins.

Question 2: Do you think that the recent trades represent AA changing course, on his former plan of picking up players with character flaws, and trying to build a more cohesive chemistry?

Question 3: Does this mean the Jays will have no interest in picking up Jonathan Papelbon from the Phillies on the cheap?

[BTS]

Rumour has it that Oakland traded Donaldson in part because Beane thinks he's a dick.

[pickoff22]

When AA first became a general manager, he was a bit of a bargain hunter, picking up guys with known character defects - Colby Rasmus, Yunel Escobar, Brett Lawrie etc.

However, he's unloaded all of those guys, some of them at a discount, and gone out of his way to pick up some guys known to have good character (Price).

 

Question 1: Do you think having players with good character, helps team chemistry, which then helps teams focus on the game, thus generating more wins.

Question 2: Do you think that the recent trades represent AA changing course, on his former plan of picking up players with character flaws, and trying to build a more cohesive chemistry?

 

I think it's yes to both.

 

For #1 it's pretty obvious IMO, anyone who has played even low level competitive sports would agree that the clubhouse dynamic impacts the team as a whole. As a general rule, being happy at work is better than being unhappy at work, whether it's because you like the people you work with or are surrounded by people who encourage you to put your best foot forward. And this is a part of the game that projection models can't capture. Now of course, winning tends to make the clubhouse vibe suddenly become better, but certainly having "character" guys right from the start helps.

 

#2 - Considering how well this season has gone, I can't see how it wouldn't change his thinking. In fact I think just the other day he addressed in during an interview during the clubhouse celebrations.

[Effit]

Rumour has it that Oakland traded Donaldson in part because Beane thinks he's a dick.

 

But yet his teammates seem to think he's a great guy.

[baubau]

Rumour has it that Oakland traded Donaldson in part because Beane thinks he's a dick.

 

We somehow need him to think Gray is one too!

[Stangstag]

Anyone read that article about the Jays and Papelbon? Apparently AA got some advice from Halladay. Doc told AA not to trade for Papelbon because he has a bad attitude.

[KingKat]

Anyone read that article about the Jays and Papelbon? Apparently AA got some advice from Halladay. Doc told AA not to trade for Papelbon because he has a bad attitude.

 

Kind of hilarious that AA needed Halladay to tell him to stay away. Even if Papelbon were Florence Nightingale that contract would still be garbage.

[Masterbather]

Rumour has it that Oakland traded Donaldson in part because Beane thinks he's a dick.

 

Yup.

 

I get a sense that Josh would be a pain in the rear in a losing team's clubhouse.

[pickoff22]

Do you have a source for this? I can't seem to find much.

 

http://www.bluejayhunter.com/2015/09/report-anthopoulos-rejected-deal-for-papelbon-halladay-advised-against.html

[Brenner]

Nah its all fluff. The character stuff is just content for media to spew out some articles. AA upgraded the talent at every position that needed it, that's the difference this year.

[thatoneguy]

Yup.

 

I get a sense that Josh would be a pain in the rear in a losing team's clubhouse.

 

A lot of players would be a pain in the rear end in a losing team's clubhouse because they don't like losing...

[Masterbather]

A lot of players would be a pain in the rear end in a losing team's clubhouse because they don't like losing...

 

Some handle it better than others, but the real alpha guys can be over-the-top obnoxious. I think JD is probably one of those guys.

[fireballW]

AA outright has said this is a change to his philosophy after reflecting on his ti e so far. I agree with poster above thag anyone who played team sports should recognize that having teammates you like have help performance in a number of ways. Of course this philosophy only goes so far and we all know talent matters the most, but I still believe it helps. Plus it's fun for fans. I was so tired of cheering for guys I didn't like, lime Arencibia, Rasmus and Lawrie. I think the new teammates even helped Bautista to tone it down a bit which makes him more likeable.

[TheHurl]

I've never been one to say that chemistry, particularly bad chemistry can't affect a teams results. What is BS is that you can "trade for chemistry", either you have it or you don't. AA upgraded talent, simple as that.

[fireballW]

I've never been one to say that chemistry, particularly bad chemistry can't affect a teams results. What is BS is that you can "trade for chemistry", either you have it or you don't. AA upgraded talent, simple as that.

 

Dumb. Clearly if you get players that all their ex teammates say are good guys and teammates your players will have a much higher chance of developing chemistry than with guys like Lind, Rasmus. Lawrie, Arencibia etc... I know the point you are trying to make, that even a lot of good guys might not all of a sudden become best friends, but that's like saying you can't trade for offense in the rare case that the guy might all of a sudden have a down year. It's a game of percentages, AA shifted towards their being a good chance the players would get along.

[Olerud363]

Rumour has it that Oakland traded Donaldson in part because Beane thinks he's a dick.

 

Exactly.

[Olerud363]

This team couldn't of done any worse given the talent. They were 15-27 in 1 run games, 99 "pythogaran wins". They aren't magically winning more games then the stats predict.

 

Now maybe certain players are playing better because of chemistry?? I reject that theory. If guys are playing better it's because of intelligence a.k.a. good advice. It's a little different then chemistry. Maybe Bautista helps Donaldson prepare for each at bat, maybe the veterans are helping Goins be more patient.

 

I mean Jeff Franceur might be the nicest guy ever.. but if he was the clean up hitter and leader and he said "hey guys, I think you gotta be aggressive, you just gotta swing early in the count cause it might the best pitch you see".. he might be the greatest guy but he's giving bad advice.

[Jimcanuck]

Character, interpersonal skills is a consideration in hiring decisions in the business world, increasing with position level. No reason why the same benefits, difficult to quantify would not also apply to a sports team. I'd rather have a Tulo at 4.2 WAR than a Yunel at 4.7 WAR.

 

I know a guy who has earned $400K in the past 10 years on termination pay from CFO jobs. He's very knowledgeable, articulate, has all the applicable certifications, tax law s*** and stuff, would be a great interview. But is an absolute dick. He'll probably earn another $400K in termination pay over the next 10 years, along with the $250K annual salary.

[pickoff22]

This team couldn't of done any worse given the talent. They were 15-27 in 1 run games, 99 "pythogaran wins". They aren't magically winning more games then the stats predict.

 

Now maybe certain players are playing better because of chemistry?? I reject that theory. If guys are playing better it's because of intelligence a.k.a. good advice. It's a little different then chemistry. Maybe Bautista helps Donaldson prepare for each at bat, maybe the veterans are helping Goins be more patient.

 

I mean Jeff Franceur might be the nicest guy ever.. but if he was the clean up hitter and leader and he said "hey guys, I think you gotta be aggressive, you just gotta swing early in the count cause it might the best pitch you see".. he might be the greatest guy but he's giving bad advice.

 

Since acquiring Price, Hawkins and Tulo this team is playing over .700 baseball. All 3 are "character" guys. Now the OP didn't ask specifically if the Jays were playing better because of chemistry, so people can assign the clubhouse impact and chemistry that the Jays have as having a zero or non-zero impact to the reason why the Jays are playing so well.....but outside of just the Jays, having chemistry or the right mix of "character" guys (hate that term for some reason) holding all other things equal, is a good thing for any club.

[Brownie19]

When AA first became a general manager, he was a bit of a bargain hunter, picking up guys with known character defects - Colby Rasmus, Yunel Escobar, Brett Lawrie etc.

However, he's unloaded all of those guys, some of them at a discount, and gone out of his way to pick up some guys known to have good character (Price).

 

Question 1: Do you think having players with good character, helps team chemistry, which then helps teams focus on the game, thus generating more wins.

Question 2: Do you think that the recent trades represent AA changing course, on his former plan of picking up players with character flaws, and trying to build a more cohesive chemistry?

Question 3: Does this mean the Jays will have no interest in picking up Jonathan Papelbon from the Phillies on the cheap?

 

Keep in mind that at the beginning of his tenure, AA had a limited budget to work with, which may explain why he elected to take on players with character flaws - as there was perceived value there. There's obviously also a chance he undervalued strong leadership and team chemistry and has adjusted accordingly.

 

There is no answer to this people; however, IMO, talent wins and winning creates good chemistry.

[Jimcanuck]

having chemistry or the right mix of "character" guys (hate that term for some reason) holding all other things equal, is a good thing for any club.

 

Of course when there is parity among competitors, it is the intangibles like character, office culture, staff morale that determines who wins and loses.

 

Among baseball teams there is not parity, results are still talent driven, but among teams that are relatively equal, the intangibles can make the difference.

[pickoff22]

Of course when there is parity among competitors, it is the intangibles like character, office culture, staff morale that determines who wins and loses.

 

Among baseball teams there is not parity, results are still talent driven, but among teams that are relatively equal, the intangibles can make the difference.

 

Exactly. It makes a difference.

[burlingtonbandit]

Since acquiring Price, Hawkins and Tulo this team is playing over .700 baseball. All 3 are "character" guys. Now the OP didn't ask specifically if the Jays were playing better because of chemistry, so people can assign the clubhouse impact and chemistry that they Jays as having a zero or non-zero impact to the reason why the Jays are playing so well.....but outside of just the Jays, having chemistry or the right mix of "character" guys (hate that term for some reason) holding all other things equal, is a good thing for any club.

 

Is Tulo really a "character" guy? He's a guy that has an insane work ethic and is one of the most talented players in the game but he doesn't exactly have a charming personality. He's a guy you love to have on your team because he will do everything to win not and I think that's what makes him a "great teammate" not because he's a great guy.

[Jimcanuck]

Is Tulo really a "character" guy? He's a guy that has an insane work ethic and is one of the most talented players in the game but he doesn't exactly have a charming personality. He's a guy you love to have on your team because he will do everything to win not and I think that's what makes him a "great teammate" not because he's a great guy.

 

i suppose by character it means someone that is professional, won't spout off to the media, criticize the manager, put stupid things on twitter, support teammates, etc...... by that def'n, Tulo is a character guy.

[BigCecil]

For years on the old Board and this one I heard people bitch that Bautista wasn't a winner...that he was selfish arguing with umps etc. Guy has been boss in the pennant race.

 

After the MIA deal and Melky signing there were too many Dominicans lol. We have heard it all.

 

The main ingredient on this team is talent...that's the differentiator. It certainly helps that they seem to like and support each other but talent and winning drive "chemistry"

[crederer]

Rumour has it that Oakland traded Donaldson in part because Beane thinks he's a dick.

 

My understanding was that he called Beane a silly name which pissed him off.

 

Anyway, team chemistry, if you want to call it that, or character,is very important in the sense that it gives positive vibes which is contagious. When you have positive vibes things tend to go your way more. It's like the saying "be positive". It's easy to say but not easy to actually do.

 

I don't know about Price but from my experience guys like Dickey and kawasaki have more influence than they seem.

[crederer]

Anyone read that article about the Jays and Papelbon? Apparently AA got some advice from Halladay. Doc told AA not to trade for Papelbon because he has a bad attitude.

 

What even happened there? I saw it but it looked like papelbon was giving Harper s*** for being lazy. I agree with that, the guy is paid a lot of money to run. He was saying things that were best for the team. Then my amateur lip reading skills lead me to believe Haper said "You wanna go? I'll f***en go right grawwwwarble"

 

Also s*** like this goes on behind closed doors all the time in the heat of the moment. It's like brothers. You love each other but you fight over stupid s***.

[Atothe]

For years on the old Board and this one I heard people bitch that Bautista wasn't a winner...that he was selfish arguing with umps etc. Guy has been boss in the pennant race.

 

After the MIA deal and Melky signing there were too many Dominicans lol. We have heard it all.

 

The main ingredient on this team is talent...that's the differentiator. It certainly helps that they seem to like and support each other but talent and winning drive "chemistry"

 

A lot of complaining idiots. Bautista is a wonderful dude and even greater player. I hope he is properly appreciated by fans but I doubt it.

[crederer]

A lot of complaining idiots. Bautista is a wonderful dude and even greater player. I hope he is properly appreciated by fans but I doubt it.

 

I agree. I don't see how arguing calls is selfish. The best players in the league almost always get the benefit of the doubt in borderline call situations but JB never did. I disagree with him arguing calls because umps have egos just like everyone else and I think that to some degree played into him not getting border line calls when another player of his calibre wouldn't have.

 

But in my opinion he's still the second best positional player on the team. People complain about his arm now but it's still pretty decent. Not as good as it was but that happens.

[L54]

When AA first became a general manager, he was a bit of a bargain hunter, picking up guys with known character defects - Colby Rasmus, Yunel Escobar, Brett Lawrie etc.

However, he's unloaded all of those guys, some of them at a discount, and gone out of his way to pick up some guys known to have good character (Price).

 

Question 1: Do you think having players with good character, helps team chemistry, which then helps teams focus on the game, thus generating more wins.

Question 2: Do you think that the recent trades represent AA changing course, on his former plan of picking up players with character flaws, and trying to build a more cohesive chemistry?

Question 3: Does this mean the Jays will have no interest in picking up Jonathan Papelbon from the Phillies on the cheap?

 

1) Yes. I am and always will be a firm believer in team chemistry. Anyone who disagrees has never been a part of a team with great chemistry.

2) Maybe. I don't think it would completely deter him from a good bargain though.

3) I don't think the Phillies are allowed to trade Papelbon again.