Should the Jays shake up the pen?

[nonamejays]

The last while both Sanchez and Osuna have not been very good. On the flip side, both Cecil and Lowe have been lights out. Would you consider shaking things up in the last two weeks to give the best chance at passing Kansas or do you stick with the two guys who have been good until recently?

[Krylian]

Stick with Osuna as closer. The only issue with him is that he's gotten fastball happy. A couple more changeups and sliders will fix that right up. Move Lowe into the 8th. Leave Cecil to do exactly what he's doing. Bring Sanchez in to lower leverage situations and let him work out what his issues are that way.

[labadee]

Hendricks and Sanchez should have their roles switched.

[RealAccountant]

Yep Osuna can close. Two most important situational guys should be Lowe and Cecil. Hendrik's should be top middle reliever and Sanchez and Hawkins should be the other middle reliever

[glory]

Hendricks and Sanchez should have their roles switched.

 

It is that simple.

 

Bump Cecil and Lowe up, and replace Sanchez with Hendriks.

[Governator]

I'd really hope Gibbons understands this concept. Lowe and Cecil are elite. Osuna has been great all year as well, thia month I think we're seeing a combination of being overused early on with some regression to the norm on his unsustainable hr/fb rate.

 

Sanchez needs to bump down the listwe have far more reliable options in the BP.

[Stangstag]

Anyone think that Osuna's recent struggles can be attributed to tiredness? He's got a career-high number of innings pitched this year and his fastball looks flat and hittable.

[Stangstag]

Also, I think Hutch could potentially be more than just a mop-up/long man out of the pen. He obviously has strikeout stuff, maybe the extra MPH on the fastball makes him dominant.

[Spanky99]

Yup.

[RealAccountant]

Also, I think Hutch could potentially be more than just a mop-up/long man out of the pen. He obviously has strikeout stuff, maybe the extra MPH on the fastball makes him dominant.

 

As he even made a relief appearance in his career?

[BigCecil]

Yes...a month ago. The sinker is a stinker. The solution is simple.

[Spanky99]

Yes...a month ago. The sinker is a stinker. The solution is simple.

 

You hangy, they bangy!

[Followthelight]

Osuna is fine, Sanchez though is not.

[Sammy225]

Anyone think that Osuna's recent struggles can be attributed to tiredness? He's got a career-high number of innings pitched this year and his fastball looks flat and hittable.

 

I don't know i think it is because he is riding his straight 4 seamer a lot he has to throw more Sliders and Changeups so hitters can't sit on that fastball. I have seen innings where he has only thrown 2 offspeed pitches. You leave a 4 seamer in the wrong spot it can be hit hard if the batter knows its coming. You have to put a seed of doubt in the hitters mind that you can throw something else.

[BigCecil]

I don't know i think it is because he is riding his straight 4 seamer a lot he has to throw more Sliders and Changeups so hitters can't sit on that fastball. I have seen innings where he has only thrown 2 offspeed pitches. You leave a 4 seamer in the wrong spot it can be hit hard if the batter knows its coming. You have to put a seed of doubt in the hitters mind that you can throw something else.

 

When he threw his slider last night it was really effective. I cant help but think if he throws that filthy change down to Bradley Jr with 2 strikes instead of yet another FB, he would be heading back the dugout instead of touching them all.

 

Bird hit a decent FB....middle but at least it was down. Tip your cap on that one.

Edited September 22, 2015 by BigCecil

[G-Snarls]

Hells yes

 

Sanchez cannot be trusted right now

 

Cecil and Lowe are better options

 

In the playoffs with so many off days too we should be able to avoid using underperforming guys more easily too

[Governator]

Sanchez as an 8th inning guy doesn't work mostly because of his splits... Sanchez throwing to 3 lefties in a row is setting him up for failure. They are getting on base at a near .400 clip against him so I don't know what outcome Gibbons had in mind there especially when Cecil was already warmed up an inning earlier.

[BigCecil]

Sanchez as an 8th inning guy doesn't work mostly because of his splits... Sanchez throwing to 3 lefties in a row is setting him up for failure. They are getting on base at a near .400 clip against him so I don't know what outcome Gibbons had in mind there especially when Cecil was already warmed up an inning earlier.

 

^ this. Managing a players confidence shouldn't include putting him into a situation with high probability of failure in a crucial spot in a crucial game when better options exist.

 

4 run leads with these offenses in our park can evaporate very quickly.

[KingKat]

Sanchez as an 8th inning guy doesn't work mostly because of his splits... Sanchez throwing to 3 lefties in a row is setting him up for failure. They are getting on base at a near .400 clip against him so I don't know what outcome Gibbons had in mind there especially when Cecil was already warmed up an inning earlier.

 

Seeems like he was guilty of cheerleading a bit. "Wouldn't it be great if Sanchez got these guys and rebuilt his confidence?". You can't manage optimistically like that. You have to be a realist.

[HERPDERP]

There should not be any set roles other than Osuna in the 9th and Lowe in the 8th.

 

Sanchez is a guy you bring in if you need the groundball.

 

Hendriks is the guy you put in if you are facing righties (although Lowe is good too, but I want him in the 8th)

 

Cecil is the obvious choice for lefties

 

Hawkins is the 6th inning guy you throw in when you have a +4 run lead, or someone you put in to stop the bleeding if we're down 3 runs

 

Everyone else there is mop-up duty.

[Governator]

^ this. Managing a players confidence shouldn't include putting him into a situation with high probability of failure in a crucial spot in a crucial game when better options exist.

 

4 run leads with these offenses in our park can evaporate very quickly.

 

Seeems like he was guilty of cheerleading a bit. "Wouldn't it be great if Sanchez got these guys and rebuilt his confidence?". You can't manage optimistically like that. You have to be a realist.

 

 

Yeah, the days of saving face are over for him, he just needs to look at his lil' cheat sheets and make common sense decisions this late in the season.

[EMK19]

Seeems like he was guilty of cheerleading a bit. "Wouldn't it be great if Sanchez got these guys and rebuilt his confidence?". You can't manage optimistically like that. You have to be a realist.

 

On one hand this kind of cheerleading approach might be a part of what wins the players' respect in the clubhouse. Perhaps he's taken to this approach due to his experiences from the last go around (run ins with Lilly, Shea etc). On the other hand, as you mentioned, it can also backfire as it could affect him from making a decisive realistic decision. I think with it being September and playoffs looming he'll need to be more decisive in his actions, even if it may mean the possibility of hurting certain players' confidence/respect in him or whatever. He was finally able to do so with Hutch and he should do the same with Sanchez also.

[Dr. Dinger]

Sanchez can't be trust with high leverage situations right now, that much is obvious. Osuna in the 9th and Lowe/Cecil in the 7th/8th.

[Sammy225]

Sanchez can't be trust with high leverage situations right now, that much is obvious. Osuna in the 9th and Lowe/Cecil in the 7th/8th.

 

Everyone just keeps forgetting about my boy Liam and he has been Nails all season.... I think people just hate kangaroos

[KingKat]

Everyone just keeps forgetting about my boy Liam and he has been Nails all season.... I think people just hate kangaroos

 

Well he certainly should be ahead of Sanchez. Truth is there are a lot of worthy setup men right now, Lowe, Hendriks, Hawkins and Cecil. I think the best is to give Lowe the 8th and really any one of the other guys the 7th. Cecil as the top lefty, should not have a defined inning. He should come up in any late inning when left handers come up even if it's the 9th.

[43211234]

Let's have a moment of silence for Liam Hendriks.

 

6th in the f***ing league in FIP and can't buy a high leverage inning. He's been better than Wade Davis this year.

 

 

Hendriks, Lowe and Cecil are 6th, 10th and 21st respectively in the major leagues in FIP among qualified relievers.

[G-Snarls]

Well he certainly should be ahead of Sanchez. Truth is there are a lot of worthy setup men right now, Lowe, Hendriks, Hawkins and Cecil. I think the best is to give Lowe the 8th and really any one of the other guys the 7th. Cecil as the top lefty, should not have a defined inning. He should come up in any late inning when left handers come up even if it's the 9th.

 

Stop it

 

This makes too much sense

[CHRIS]

Well he certainly should be ahead of Sanchez. Truth is there are a lot of worthy setup men right now, Lowe, Hendriks, Hawkins and Cecil. I think the best is to give Lowe the 8th and really any one of the other guys the 7th. Cecil as the top lefty, should not have a defined inning. He should come up in any late inning when left handers come up even if it's the 9th.

 

Yes, I do agree that Sanchez should definitely be behind all the guys you listed + Osuna.

[RealAccountant]

Let's have a moment of silence for Liam Hendriks.

 

6th in the f***ing league in FIP and can't buy a high leverage inning. He's been better than Wade Davis this year.

 

 

Hendriks, Lowe and Cecil are 6th, 10th and 21st respectively in the major leagues in FIP among qualified relievers.

 

Might be our best reliever.

[glory]

Let's have a moment of silence for Liam Hendriks.

 

6th in the f***ing league in FIP and can't buy a high leverage inning. He's been better than Wade Davis this year.

 

 

Hendriks, Lowe and Cecil are 6th, 10th and 21st respectively in the major leagues in FIP among qualified relievers.

 

A 1.5 WAR in 60 innings and the manager is afraid to use him. Poor Liam. If only he lacked fastball command, then Gibby would love him.