Blue Jays to hire Mark Shapiro as new president/CEO following 2015

[fireballW]

I am confident that this is not true, but he's young and malleable enough to start leaning that way once Shapiro is in his ear.

 

AA has made many mentions of advanced stats. We know they have their whole own system devoted towards this. When the Jays got Smoak AA hinted towards it being because a lot of their data and sabermetrics pointed towards him having more to offer. Also, the argument of a pure analytical approach is just as dumb as going completely without using advanced stats. I've been here through it all and remember a specific interview where JP credited AA with liking Edwin (not to mention year after year he would say they believe he could do big things) and it is also pretty widely known he was the one who wanted Bautista the most...

 

"J.P. Ricciardi was the Jays GM at the time and Anthopoulos was his assistant. He says Ricciardi deserves all the credit for the trade. But these minor transactions were part of Anthopoulos’s purview and he was the one who suggested the Jays put in a claim on Bautista."

 

AA has done a couple bad trades that may have been pressured and then a lot of really great and amazing things. Shapiro will only help even more.

[flafson]

If i'm Shapiro, i go to Rogers and ask them to offer AA an extension and announce it this week.

[BTS]

Even if there are more limitations on his power, AA would have to crazy to leave Toronto for Seattle.

 

Maybe not Seattle, but you wonder if he might be inclined to look elsewhere. Shapiro is young enough that AA now has a ceiling in Toronto, and very likely less autonomy than he had yesterday. If, say, Washington or Seattle came calling you have to think he'd listen.

[reedjohnsonfan]

I have no real opinion on Shapioro as a CEO other than the moves timing is rude to Beeston as they finally put together a team that has great potential in Sept. and they announce this.........

 

That's actually a really good point.

[BTS]

AA has made many mentions of advanced stats. We know they have their whole own system devoted towards this. When the Jays got Smoak AA hinted towards it being because a lot of their data and sabermetrics pointed towards him having more to offer. Also, the argument of a pure analytical approach is just as dumb as going completely without using advanced stats. I've been here through it all and remember a specific interview where JP credited AA with liking Edwin (not to mention year after year he would say they believe he could do big things) and it is also pretty widely known he was the one who wanted Bautista the most...

 

"J.P. Ricciardi was the Jays GM at the time and Anthopoulos was his assistant. He says Ricciardi deserves all the credit for the trade. But these minor transactions were part of Anthopoulos’s purview and he was the one who suggested the Jays put in a claim on Bautista."

 

AA has done a couple bad trades that may have been pressured and then a lot of really great and amazing things. Shapiro will only help even more.

 

I don't think there's any evidence at all that AA puts stock in analytics. In fact, there's every reason to believe that he doesn't.

[BTS]

If i'm Shapiro, i go to Rogers and ask them to offer AA an extension and announce it this week.

 

Why would you want your direct report extended long-term without developing any kind of working relationship?

[reedjohnsonfan]

I don't think there's any evidence at all that AA puts stock in analytics. In fact, there's every reason to believe that he doesn't.

 

lol troll post.

[LGBJ29]

That's actually a really good point.

 

no it isn't

[KingKat]

AA has made many mentions of advanced stats. We know they have their whole own system devoted towards this.

 

Every team has an analytics department. There's nothing exceptional about that. The extent to which the GMs of the respective teams understand and incorporte the analytics is what varies from GM to GM. At times, AA has seemed quite blind to them. When he says that the was surprised by how bad Bonifacio's defense was, it suggest a GM that can't even consult a Fangraphs page but when he's willing to outbid other teams for Russell Martin and recognizes pitch framing as one of the ways he provides value, it indicates progress. Overall, I don't think there's much evidence to suggest he's particularly analytics minded but he does seem to be, more broadly speaking, open minded and willing to learn from his mistakes and that's a good thing.

[BTS]

lol troll post.

 

That's not a knock on his work. But where's the evidence that AA has embraced sabermetrics?

[reedjohnsonfan]

That's not a knock on his work. But where's the evidence that AA has embraced sabermetrics?

 

Off the top of my head.

 

When they signed Smoak he said their analytics team likes some of his numbers.

When they traded for Donaldson he mentioned his WAR (obviously they look at other stuff though)

Blair just mentioned a couple days ago that one of the stats AA told him they like to use is ball speed off the bat

 

You'd be retarded if you think the Jays don't use any analytics, let's be honest here man.

[flafson]

Why would you want your direct report extended long-term without developing any kind of working relationship?

 

Because you don't want to have a reputation of booting an executive while he's at his peak.

They do that all the time in Soccer in Europe.

 

A new head (CEO/director/board) comes in the middle of the season, all the media surrounds the current manager asking him how he feels about his job in the middle of a pennant race, owner of the team comes and gives the manager a new 3 year contract.

During the offseason they release the manager if he didn't do well or keep him if he did do well.

[Sammy225]

Maybe not Seattle, but you wonder if he might be inclined to look elsewhere. Shapiro is young enough that AA now has a ceiling in Toronto, and very likely less autonomy than he had yesterday. If, say, Washington or Seattle came calling you have to think he'd listen.

 

It is kind of like the Brian Butterfield thing where he kept getting passed over as Manager and he went elsewhere to the same position because he felt he had a better opportunity for advancement

[Statman]

There is nothing forward thinking about analytics in baseball anymore. Every single front office in baseball uses them including AA. Advanced metrics were some of the reasons he wanted Donaldson, Martin, Smoak, and Travis as just a few examples this year.

[KingKat]

Maybe not Seattle, but you wonder if he might be inclined to look elsewhere. Shapiro is young enough that AA now has a ceiling in Toronto, and very likely less autonomy than he had yesterday. If, say, Washington or Seattle came calling you have to think he'd listen.

 

If AA leaves the Jays for the Nats, he'd go from what's been the least Boras friendly org in the league to what's been the most Boras friendly.

[HERPDERP]

There is nothing forward thinking about analytics in baseball anymore. Every single front office in baseball uses them including AA. Advanced metrics were some of the reasons he wanted Donaldson, Martin, Smoak, and Travis as just a few examples this year.

 

Well it'll be nice now having a President that knows about advanced metrics, along with having detailed knowledge of all facets of the baseball business.

 

Beeston is a smart fellow but he's more of an executive than a baseball guy.

[mellowgold]

I think you have to be pretty naive to honestly believe that in this day and age, ANY front office doesn't at least consider analytics. Sure, some will lean more heavily on them than others, but to suggest Alex doesn't use them at all or isn't aware of their existence is pretty far-fetched.

[KingKat]

I think you have to be pretty naive to honestly believe that in this day and age, ANY front office doesn't at least consider analytics. Sure, some will lean more heavily on them than others, but to suggest Alex doesn't use them at all or isn't aware of their existence is pretty far-fetched.

 

Yeah that's why no one is saying that.

[BTS]

 

Analytics are not just some commodity that you pick up at the store and then "have." The Blue Jays have an analytics team that does good work. AA makes some moves based on advice from his analytics team. But that's not the same thing as being forward-thinking and embracing all that analytics can teach about how the game is played.

 

----------------------------

These two points do not preclude it being a good move to retain AA as GM. I think he and Shapiro could make a good team.

 

You just worded my thoughts a lot better than I did. Obviously they have an analytics team and solicit opinions, but overall I've seen no evidence that the Beeston/AA team is pushing any boundaries. It doesn't take a genius to realize that Donaldson, Price, Tulo, Martin, etc.. are good players.

 

He's probably improved a bit from the dark days of trading Napoli for Francisco, signing Cordero because ERA, and giving everyday starting jobs to JPA, Thames and Sierra, but I'd be comfortable saying a good portion of this forum is more familiar than AA with baseball analytics.

[TheHurl]

He seems to have aquired a much better grasp on defensive value and run prevention.

 

so has Dayton Moore. It is probably much more of an old school thought process of pitching and defense wins championships. AA has gone with power and defense and hope the pitching holds up. Both are fair building methods but it doesn't mean that they are looking at everything from an analytic view. I think AA's biggest improvement is that he's stopped completely ignoring the strikeout. This is the best team K-Rate they have put out there with it being the second best slugging percentage. Coupling that with better team defense is what has provided this team with improvements.

[TDotttt2005]

I think this is a great hire overall based on what i've read about Shapiro's business operations background, his experience running the business and ballpark side of the Indians (Remember, Beeston is President of the Rogers Centre too), as well as his influence in the rules, competition, safety, etc. aspects of MLB, being part of the Competition Committee. All of this had more to do with his hire than the fact that he was GM of the Indians in the first decade of the 2000's.

 

For those scared that AA will leave, or pissed that AA wasn't given the President/CEO job...

 

(1) AA has little to none Business Ops experience in Baseball. There's a wide misunderstanding among a lot of fans that because he's made good trades, he can oversee the Business Operations aspect of Beeston's Job. I'm sure he's a smart guy, but what experience does he have with dynamic pricing strategies, procurement, stadium operations, planning and running a $400mil stadium renovation, accounting/forecasting/budgeting, etc. etc. etc? Even on the baseball side, what experience does he have dealing with a multi-billion dollar conglomerate board of directors to get a baseball budget approved. Stuff like that is what Beeston does/Shapiro did in Cleveland, as well as having the final say on Baseball Operations.

 

(2) I really don't think AA will leave. From all indications, even though Shapiro has a Baseball Operations Background, once he was promoted to President, he let Antonetti do his thing, and played a similar role to Beeston. Antonetti, like AA, never had complete autonomy. He had to clear things with Shapiro, who at times had to clear things with the Dolan's. This is a kin to AA having to clear things with Beeston, who at times had to go to Rogers. I don't see much changing in how AA functions in his role with Shapiro as President/CEO, versus Beeston as President/CEO. In fact, if there is a major change, I see it being AA given a promotion to President of Baseball Operations title, similar to what Dombrowski has in Boston, and having more autonomy than he had under Beeston, including the option to promote LaCava to GM, or retaining that title himself.

 

Either way, good people want to work for and learn from good people. For AA, staying and learning from a guy who once had his job, and now has the job he ultimately wants to have (i'm assuming), is a great opportunity. I don't expect him to be going anywhere.

 

Oh...and Re-sign Price. Thanks. #Nomore5yearlimit

[Angrioter]

so has Dayton Moore. It is probably much more of an old school thought process of pitching and defense wins championships. AA has gone with power and defense and hope the pitching holds up. Both are fair building methods but it doesn't mean that they are looking at everything from an analytic view. I think AA's biggest improvement is that he's stopped completely ignoring the strikeout. This is the best team K-Rate they have put out there with it being the second best slugging percentage. Coupling that with better team defense is what has provided this team with improvements.

 

.........but Aaron Sanchez.

 

Shapiro will trade Sanchez the coming offseason. Book it!

[TheHurl]

Analytics are not just some commodity that you pick up at the store and then "have." The Blue Jays have an analytics team that does good work. AA makes some moves based on advice from his analytics team.

 

Has that changed over the years though or has he always? You don't hear him talking about OPS as an analysis tool anymore but is that because he now realizes it's not an advanced stat or just that a better team has changed the questions he's being asked. Learning from your mistakes is a good skill, hope for Jays fans that AA has. Better news for Jays fans is that Beeston won't be around to help repeat them. Honestly I think Shapiro and AA are a good combo...really only egos clashing would be a negative now. Good thing AA doesn't have one (sarcasm font for those that missed it)

[TheHurl]

.........but Aaron Sanchez.

 

Shapiro will trade Sanchez the coming offseason. Book it!

 

I meant the offensive strikeout. But yes the Indians certainly built pitching staffs with the K in mind. They did break the all-time record last year and are on pace to shatter that this year. You have to figure that Shapiro is a fan of pitchers who strikeout batters.

[Dick_Pole]

 

There's so much to like about this. Outside of the obvious salient points already made, this takes care of what could have been a huge burden this off-season. Imagine having no President and a free agent GM going into an off-season where two of your top members of the rotation are going into free agency, and the FA pool for starting pitchers is vast. The last thing the Jays needed was to be behind the ball on the off-season because of FO nonsense. Whether or not AA sticks around, at least Shapiro can sub in as GM if necessary until a replacement has been found.

[RealAccountant]

Under Shapiro would we have acquired Martin Donaldson Tulo Travis

[RealAccountant]

I meant the offensive strikeout. But yes the Indians certainly built pitching staffs with the K in mind. They did break the all-time record last year and are on pace to shatter that this year. You have to figure that Shapiro is a fan of pitchers who strikeout batters.

 

Yeah Indians who are on their way to another losing year

[GD]

It is kind of like the Brian Butterfield thing where he kept getting passed over as Manager and he went elsewhere to the same position because he felt he had a better opportunity for advancement

 

When Farrell gets let go I'd really like Butterfield to come back and replace Rivera

[Sammy225]

When Farrell gets let go I'd really like Butterfield to come back and replace Rivera

 

Butters was a great 3rd base coach.

[Nabru]

Under Shapiro would we have acquired Martin Donaldson Tulo Travis

 

No, we'd have Yan Gomes, Hechavarria, Syndergaard, etc. with a perpetual contender for the AL East (at a fraction of the cost) instead of what's likely just a half year window of contention right now.