Blue Jays kicking tires on Shields

[Spanky99]

Please don't quote invalids posts, thanks.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Yeah I've said that too, McCarthy was a perfect fit for the RC being a groundball pitcher and at an affordable price who could bridge the gap for the young guns. We missed the boat on that one imo.

 

We missed out on Prado and McCarthy last year. Both would have addressed weaknesses and we'd still potentially have Gose as the 4th OF.

[L54]

We missed out on Prado and McCarthy last year. Both would have addressed weaknesses and we'd still potentially have Gose as the 4th OF.

 

I'll take my chances on Travis vs Gose. Much greater area of need.

[jays76]

Shields is a great fit at 3 years or less. Who really knows though. Maybe Alex has his eyes a little further down the road with Bautista,EE,and Dickey's contracts due in 2 years.

 

It is surprising Romero didn't get an invite. You would think they would at least try him for a bullpen spot considering they have to pay him 7.5M anyway.

 

I guess they've completely given up on him, he might be that far gone.

[Spanky99]

Realaccountant/2015WorldChamps/ScientificReason/ and club...DIAFFF!!!

[TwistedLogic]

I still like a Shields signing (I don't think he'll become an albatross), and I think the Blue Jays want him. I don't think he's going to come here, because I feel like he'll get comparable offers from other teams and he'll sign somewhere that he prefers to Toronto.

[glory]

Yeah, if I had to guess, I'd say he'll go to San Diego unless the Jays either go much higher on the AAV or add an extra year. I doubt the Jays will do either of those things.

 

I'd do 4/75 for Shields, but I'd be reluctant to go much higher. That's just me talking though. Personally, I don't care how much Rogers spends. Just win over the next two years, and then worry about the consequences later. It's not like Shields on a four year deal will put the Jays in Phillies territory.

[Laika]

Why do you care about our future payroll? Winning before Bautista leaves and/or declines is really all that matters. A playoff appearance or two would go a long way to defraying the s***** investment anyway. Get the good player here while we're still competitive and deal with the financial fallout afterwards. It's not like he's asking for 7/140, anyway. In any case it's manageable.

 

I just don't really believe in a "Bautista window". I've always thought that that was a kind of really stupid compartmentalized thinking.

 

What if you sign Shields and then Jose breaks his leg in April?

 

What if Shields' contract four or five years from now contributes to an inability to lock up Stroman, Norris, Sanchez, Hutch, Pompey, for their prime years?

 

Having elite vet talent and a solid team does mean that Toronto needs to make every effort to win now, but it doesn't mean they should operate like a myopic. How about a non replacement level player for 2B, how about trading Navarro for a reliever because he makes a terrible DH, how about building a robust 25 man with depth everywhere?

 

Signing Shields and then calling the roster complete would be a rehash of everything that has made Toronto consistent also rans in the AA era. Studs and duds is the roster archetype issue. Toronto has the studs. They just need less duds.

[NorthOf49]

The "Bautista window" is outdated thinking IMO. With their young pitching nucleus and multiple other 5-win guys, the team's 2016+ outlook is much better now than it was at the time of the Marlins trade, when the window talk all started. Not everything needs to be in sync with the timelines of Bautista and EE. The fanbase should be excited about both the near and far future.

 

With that said, I think Shields makes a lot of sense at 4 years, <$20M per. A playoff berth in 2015 would provide the organization with a huge wave of relief.

[Atothe]

Bautista has aged gracefully, I'm still shocked at this with all his injuries. What an amazing career

[o2cui2i]

I just don't really believe in a "Bautista window". I've always thought that that was a kind of really stupid compartmentalized thinking.

 

What if you sign Shields and then Jose breaks his leg in April?

 

What if Shields' contract four or five years from now contributes to an inability to lock up Stroman, Norris, Sanchez, Hutch, Pompey, for their prime years?

 

Having elite vet talent and a solid team does mean that Toronto needs to make every effort to win now, but it doesn't mean they should operate like a myopic. How about a non replacement level player for 2B, how about trading Navarro for a reliever because he makes a terrible DH, how about building a robust 25 man with depth everywhere?

 

Signing Shields and then calling the roster complete would be a rehash of everything that has made Toronto consistent also rans in the AA era. Studs and duds is the roster archetype issue. Toronto has the studs. They just need less duds.

 

still have to say that there are less s***** players now than in the past years. it's not perfect but is better than we've looked in the off season in a while.

[Gorlak]

The "Bautista window" is outdated thinking IMO. With their young pitching nucleus and multiple other 5-win guys, the team's 2016+ outlook is much better now than it was at the time of the Marlins trade, when the window talk all started. Not everything needs to be in sync with the timelines of Bautista and EE. The fanbase should be excited about both the near and far future.

 

With that said, I think Shields makes a lot of sense at 4 years, <$20M per. A playoff berth in 2015 would provide the organization with a huge wave of relief.

 

I don't think it's a Bautista window so much as a good offense window at this point. They will need to rebuild the offense after 2016, although adding Donaldson will make that easier.

[jays76]

I just don't really believe in a "Bautista window". I've always thought that that was a kind of really stupid compartmentalized thinking.

 

What if you sign Shields and then Jose breaks his leg in April?

 

What if Shields' contract four or five years from now contributes to an inability to lock up Stroman, Norris, Sanchez, Hutch, Pompey, for their prime years?

 

Having elite vet talent and a solid team does mean that Toronto needs to make every effort to win now, but it doesn't mean they should operate like a myopic. How about a non replacement level player for 2B, how about trading Navarro for a reliever because he makes a terrible DH, how about building a robust 25 man with depth everywhere?

 

Signing Shields and then calling the roster complete would be a rehash of everything that has made Toronto consistent also rans in the AA era. Studs and duds is the roster archetype issue. Toronto has the studs. They just need less duds.

 

I agree with a lot of your points however I think pitching is our biggest priority now and Shields serves so many areas in relation to our rotation and the pen in a trickle down effect, he's the biggest need bar none for us at the moment. I also disagree with Shields being a roadblock with a 4yr contract as the young guys are all under team control for some time and we can get creative with their extensions if need be via more backloading, etc.

 

I do agree with your stud & dud philosophy specifically, theoretically that's exactly how you should run a team a la the Oakland A's but with a slightly higher payroll to retain more players but we're in a different situation and I do think it is a win now situation for us. Like you said we can't hinge it all on Bautista because anything can happen but the window (physically & contractually) is the next few yrs for the majority of our core- Bautista, Encarnacion, Reyes, Martin. These guys are special players and their time is now.

 

Personally I think AA should take a serious run at Shields, his signing alone clears up multiple holes on the pitching side and if not then definitely go clear up the other holes (2B, etc.)

[jays76]

Ya I'm pretty content with the team as is. Adding Weeks for a gamble at 2B, Navarro for a reliever better than replacement would be nice.

 

I wholeheartedly disagree, if you're content with this team as is you're definitely the exception to the norm and I don't think the majority are wrong here. Way too many glaring weaknesses that will bite us as it stands..

[NorthOf49]

I wholeheartedly disagree, if you're content with this team as is you're definitely the exception to the norm and I don't think the majority are wrong here. Way too many glaring weaknesses that will bite us as it stands..

Saying you're content is a personal statement; right/wrong doesn't come into play. Anyone is entitled to be content about anything.

 

I'm content with how this offseason has gone and am looking forward to Spring Training.

[TwistedLogic]

Am I the only one that's worried more about outfield depth than I am about the rotation, bullpen and middle infield?

 

Bautista played 155 games last year. Considering his injury history over the two years prior, I'm not sure how confident I am in him repeating another full season without any problems.

[Abomination]

Am I the only one that's worried more about outfield depth than I am about the rotation, bullpen and middle infield?

 

Bautista played 155 games last year. Considering his injury history over the two years prior, I'm not sure how confident I am in him repeating another full season without any problems.

 

I'm a little concerned about it, but AA can probably find a AAAA player (someone's gotta play outfield in AAA) that could step in if more than Pillar was needed. Damn, that's a lot of A's.

[Gorlak]

Am I the only one that's worried more about outfield depth than I am about the rotation, bullpen and middle infield?

 

Bautista played 155 games last year. Considering his injury history over the two years prior, I'm not sure how confident I am in him repeating another full season without any problems.

 

Pillar isn't ideal, but not many teams have good 4th outfielders, Any player worth more than 2 WAR over a full season is already getting full playing time. In my view Bullpen is by far the biggest concern, Hoping for fluky good performance from mediocre players due to small sample size is dumb.

[TwistedLogic]

I'm a little concerned about it, but AA can probably find a AAAA player (someone's gotta play outfield in AAA) that could step in if more than Pillar was needed. Damn, that's a lot of A's.

 

Except that what if Bautista and Saunders go down? That isn't exactly an inconceivable scenario. At that point, our outfield is going to be what, Pillar, Pompey and Dirks?

[jays76]

Saying you're content is a personal statement; right/wrong doesn't come into play. Anyone is entitled to be content about anything.

 

I'm content with how this offseason has gone and am looking forward to Spring Training.

 

Fair enough but I also said I don't think which is also a personal statement/opinion.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm overjoyed with the moves AA has made so far but if you're building a house why not fully complete it, especially when the means are more than likely there to do so ("The money is there if needed and it fits"- Paul Beeston). I think that's the unanimous sentiment with the fan base and outside analysts regarding the Jays thus far.

[jays76]

Am I the only one that's worried more about outfield depth than I am about the rotation, bullpen and middle infield?

 

Bautista played 155 games last year. Considering his injury history over the two years prior, I'm not sure how confident I am in him repeating another full season without any problems.

 

You win with pitching so I think we need to clear that up first but yeah the less we see of Kevin Pillar the better.

[Gorlak]

You win with pitching so I think we need to clear that up first but yeah the less we see of Kevin Pillar the better.

 

I would be okay with a Saunders/Pillar platoon, at least until Pillar proves his splits were due to SSS.

[TwistedLogic]

Dirks/Pillar is >= Izzy/Goins depth imo. Plus outfielders are easier to replace than MI'ers.

 

Izturis/Goins/Kawasaki/Travis all vying for one spot in the lineup is a lot more ideal in my eyes than Dirks and Pillar both occupying a lineup spot simultaneously.

[Stangstag]

I would be okay with a Saunders/Pillar platoon, at least until Pillar proves his splits were due to SSS.

 

I would not be ok with that. Saunders should be playing everyday until he proves he cant hit lefties.

[GD]

I would kind of rather one more OF (preferably a CF) than a 2B. Mainly because there's like two 2Bs out there, but I think an extra OF would go a very long way for this team.

[jays76]

I would be okay with a Saunders/Pillar platoon, at least until Pillar proves his splits were due to SSS.

 

I hope that Pompey shines and Saunders stays healthy, I don't mean to bag on Pillar as he's decent defensively and he's an adequate 4th outfielder but I don't want to see him with any extended playing time at all.

[Angrioter]

Am I the only one that's worried more about outfield depth than I am about the rotation, bullpen and middle infield?

 

Bautista played 155 games last year. Considering his injury history over the two years prior, I'm not sure how confident I am in him repeating another full season without any problems.

 

Pillar kid is good, and can hit like a motherf***er. Andy Dirks is a good hitter.

[Sorrow]

I still think Tolleson surprises and wins the spot out of ST and moves to the bench designating Izturis in June when Travis comes up.

[Gorlak]

I hope that Pompey shines and Saunders stays healthy, I don't mean to bag on Pillar as he's decent defensively and he's an adequate 4th outfielder but I don't want to see him with any extended playing time at all.

 

I have always thought Pillar is s***, but his splits show he could be useful. I would also hedge against that bet, but may as well see if he can keep it up.

[Gorlak]

I would not be ok with that. Saunders should be playing everyday until he proves he cant hit lefties.

 

I agree, but a platoon would be better than Pillar being inserted into the lineup in an arbitrary way. Saunders doesn't have a huge split, If he's hitting it's fine, But Pillar has hit well only against lefties.