Blue Jays getting second baseman?

[KingKat]

(+ comp pick)

 

You can draft a Sanchez with a comp pick and I don't just mean that figuratively. He was literally a comp pick. Heck you could draft a college pitcher with that comp pick and barely lose any development time. It's indeed a pretty light price. Pick well enough and you practically get a year of Zobrist for just the salary cost.

[xposbrad]

I don't think you know how good Zobrist is. Cueto really doesn't come close. Zobrist provides the biggest upgrade anywhere.

 

I respect your opinion, but a lot of MBL players fall off a cliff in their mid 30s, that's a fact. Zobrist will be 34 during the season. Not someone I am going to overpay for. I also take into account trade value. I think we learned our lesson for trading for older players. Also, if we wanted a plug at 2b, we had other options at the start of the offseason. I know you consider WAR the end all, but there are a lot more factors in it for me, like a player's age, years of control, trade value, etc..Like I said, I would rather keep our trade pieces and target for a #1 SP. I think the team has enough hitting at this point, do we want to end up like the Rangers back some time ago, all hitting?

 

Cueto, was a 4.1 WAR last year, at this point, having a high pitcher war on the team is more important than another hitter, imo. Don't get me wrong, Zobrist is a great player, I just think a #1 sp helps this team a lot more right now.

[BTS]

Holy f***, Sanchez only had a swinging strike rate of 6.2% out of the pen this year.

[BTS]

You can draft a Sanchez with a comp pick and I don't just mean that figuratively. He was literally a comp pick.

 

Yeah, that's my take too. The comp pick will come very close to being as valuable as I expect Sanchez to be a year from now. Add in like $20-30 million in surplus value from Zobrist and it's a very light offer.

[GD]

Holy f***, Sanchez only had a swinging strike rate of 6.2% out of the pen this year.

 

I thought it was like 9.5%... jeez.

[L54]

I respect your opinion, but a lot of MBL players fall off a cliff in their mid 30s, that's a fact. Zobrist will be 34 during the season. Not someone I am going to overpay for. I also take into account trade value. I think we learned our lesson for trading for older players. Also, if we wanted a plug at 2b, we had other options at the start of the offseason. I know you consider WAR the end all, but there are a lot more factors in it for me, like a player's age, years of control, trade value, etc..Like I said, I would rather keep our trade pieces and target for a #1 SP. I think the team has enough hitting at this point, do we want to end up like the Rangers back some time ago, all hitting?

 

Cueto, was a 4.1 WAR last year, at this point, having a high pitcher war on the team is more important than another hitter, imo. Don't get me wrong, Zobrist is a great player, I just think a #1 sp helps this team a lot more right now.

 

Sanchez for Zobrist isn't an overpay though.

 

Then in 2016 you either pay him the ~14 million or take the comp pick.

 

If you can get Zobrist for a reliever who doesn't strike guys out, I think you have to do it.

[BTS]

I thought it was like 9.5%... jeez.

 

I had actually assumed like 11% because he sure looked dominant.

[xposbrad]

Sanchez for Zobrist isn't an overpay though.

 

Then in 2016 you either pay him the ~14 million or take the comp pick.

 

If you can get Zobrist for a reliever who doesn't strike guys out, I think you have to do it.

 

No but most likely it will require more than Sanchez. I think we need to save up for a nice young SP, save all those trade pieces.

[L54]

No but most likely it will require more than Sanchez. I think we need to save up for a nice young SP, save all those trade pieces.

 

Ya you're right it would. I was just under the assumption we were talking Sanchez for Zobrist. My mistake.

 

I don't view Sanchez as more than a late inning reliever. Every trade scenario involving him I'm pretty much in agreement with.

[GreekFatAss]

Only 11% of Sanchez' pitches thrown last year was a non fastball, which he got 26% of his strikeouts with. I know its fashionable to crap all over Sanchez because we ignore the fact that he made qualitative changes to his game last year that doesn't have thousands of PA's of sample size for you all to drool over yet, but his game plan out of the pen last year was to just pound the strike zone with fastballs and induce weak contact off his superb fastball.

[jaysblue]

Ben Zobrist has been the 3rd most valuable player in baseball last 6 years. More valuable than Clayton Kershaw.

Would you trade Sanchez for a year of Bautista? That's pretty much what Zobrist is.

 

But Bautista hits more home runs and always gets a lot of RBI's!

[L54]

Only 11% of Sanchez' pitches thrown last year was a non fastball, which he got 26% of his strikeouts with. I know its fashionable to crap all over Sanchez because we ignore the fact that he made qualitative changes to his game last year that doesn't have thousands of PA's of sample size for you all to drool over yet, but his game plan out of the pen last year was to just pound the strike zone with fastballs and induce weak contact off his superb fastball.

 

To me, the difference between a good organization and a s***** one in this instance is recognizing whether or not said player can make the necessary adjustments to harness his potential. Any ML pitcher should be able to pound the zone with fastballs. That shouldn't be a specific skill set that is commended.

 

If the Jays don't think he can do it, right now is an excellent sell high.

[GreekFatAss]

Sanchez is just a GB specialist right now. Mark Buehrle gets more guys to swing and miss.

 

Don't forget that Sanchez is also still trying to repeat brand new mechanics. Its very difficult to make an adjustment and have it turn you overnight into a perfect pitcher. I am willing to bet that he has a better swing and miss numbers than Buerhle by years end.

[jaysblue]

I've been simulating my Blue Jays franchise in the Show for the 2015 season and some interesting things occurred. I'll post the stats later, though this is a general sense of what went down:

 

- All three of Jose Bautista, EE and JD have monster years again.

- Michael Saunders struggles offensively big time.

- Russell Martin struggles offensively big time as well; though I'm sure his pitch framing is superb

- RA Dickey crashes in a big way; had to remove him from the rotation lol.

- MB puts together another solid season.

- Drew Hutchison strikes out 200 batters and is the Jays second best pitcher/

- I hate this one - Marcus Stroman struggles and I had to send him down to the minors at the end of June.

- Sanchez started out of the BP and then I sent him to the minors to prepare him as a starter, and he's flourished out of the rotation (I think he made 15 starts, gotta check).

 

I made some of my own moves in the offseason (signed AJ Burnett, V-Mart and Koji Uehera to one-year deals), and also traded for AJ Pollock to play in CF and had Danny Espinosa & Chris Owings at 2B. I then traded for Chase Utley, Mike Adams and Antonio Bastardo at the trade deadline lol.

 

As for some ex-Blue Jays:

 

- Lawrie stays healthy and has a solid year in Oakland (I'll post up the stats later). Still Donaldson is much better

- Rasmus signed with CHW in the offseason, and had a so-so year offensively.

- Melky signed with Detroit lol, though he was nothing special offensively. I think he eclipsed 20 HR's last time I checked.

- McGowan signed with the Marlins and was flipped between the rotation and pen.

[GD]

More examples of recent Jays comp picks... Matt Smoral,Mitch Nay,Tyler Gonzalez,Joe Musgrove,Jake Anderson,Dwight Smith,Kevin Comer,Noah Synergaard,Asher Wojciechkowshi,Marcus Knecht.

 

Smoral, Nay, Smith, Syndergaard and Woj are all solid picks

 

Jacob Anderson = GOAT

[L54]

If by solid you mean bench options and relievers, buy the time they need to be protected, then sure.

 

They have value before they need protection from the rule V. Just because AA didn't properly value them at the time (Synder, Woj) doesn't mean they weren't good picks.

[Brownie19]

They have value before they need protection from the rule V. Just because AA didn't properly value them at the time (Synder, Woj) doesn't mean they weren't good picks.

 

What do you mean by that?

[Brownie19]

Don't forget that Sanchez is also still trying to repeat brand new mechanics. Its very difficult to make an adjustment and have it turn you overnight into a perfect pitcher. I am willing to bet that he has a better swing and miss numbers than Buerhle by years end.

 

I'm not sure getting more swings and misses than Buehrle should be the bar that Sanchez aims for. Just sayin'

[L54]

Good or bad is irrelevant. What is relevant is that none of them made it to the majors in less than 4 years. The chances of you picking someone 35thish overall and him being in the majors in a year or two are very very slim.

 

What does him being in the majors in a year or two matter? Obviously if you pick a HS player in the supplemental round he's not going to be in the majors in two years in most circumstances.

[L54]

What do you mean by that?

 

That just because prospects don't reach their full potential, doesn't mean they aren't good picks. Hindsight is 20/20. Many of the guys GD mentioned have or had value in being a prospect. Syndergaard being the most obvious.

[Brenner]

So what 2nd basement did the Jays get?

[Spanky99]

Based on what exactly?

 

Exhibit A- He's a retard.

[Spanky99]

Only 11% of Sanchez' pitches thrown last year was a non fastball, which he got 26% of his strikeouts with. I know its fashionable to crap all over Sanchez because we ignore the fact that he made qualitative changes to his game last year that doesn't have thousands of PA's of sample size for you all to drool over yet, but his game plan out of the pen last year was to just pound the strike zone with fastballs and induce weak contact off his superb fastball.

 

I was going to post, essentially this, about the sinking fasrballs, it's a heavy pitch that rarely gets squared up. He induces quite a bit of weak ground balls. I'd love to see him start and succeed, but.....

[KingKat]

Why would you even try to chime in on a conversation without the foggiest notion of what's being talked about?Full Troll?

 

Actually he made a damn relevant statement. You said: "Good or bad is irrelevant. What is relevant is that none of them made it to the majors in less than 4 years." Not making the majors in four years isn't nearly as relevant for a HS draftee as it would be for a College draftee. He added some nuance to your completely un-nuanced point and then you have the nerve to call HIM a troll.

 

 

[Spanky99]

Why would you even try to chime in on a conversation without the foggiest notion of what's being talked about?Full Troll?

 

Huh?

[Spanky99]

Actually he made a damn relevant statement. You said: "Good or bad is irrelevant. What is relevant is that none of them made it to the majors in less than 4 years." Not making the majors in four years isn't nearly as relevant for a HS draftee as it would be for a College draftee. He added some nuance to your completely un-nuanced point and then you have the nerve to call HIM a troll.

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't get where that came from or fully get his point here? I'm pretty tired, but something went over my head?!

[KingKat]

Yeah, I don't get where that came from or fully get his point here? I'm pretty tired, but something went over my head?!

 

I think that the point he's trying to make is that because most of the comp picks the Jays made were HS picks that haven't made the majors yet it means that comp picks are worth much less than Sanchez because at least Sanchez has made the majors. He seems to ignore the fact that a. a comp pick doesn't always have to be a HS guy, a future comp pick could be a college guy in which case they could potentially be very close to the majors right off the bat. b. Sanchez making the majors doesn't make him superior to someone like Syndergaard who hasn't. Nearly any GM would value Syndergaard more because of the type of starting pitcher he projects to be. Making the majors as a reliever doesn't make Sanchez superior to a really good starting pitching prospect.

[Spanky99]

I think that the point he's trying to make is that because most of the comp picks the Jays made were HS picks that haven't made the majors yet it means that comp picks are worth much less than Sanchez because at least Sanchez has made the majors. He seems to ignore the fact that a. a comp pick doesn't always have to be a HS guy, a future comp pick could be a college guy in which case they could potentially be very close to the majors right off the bat. b. Sanchez making the majors doesn't make him superior to someone like Syndergaard who hasn't. Nearly any GM would value Syndergaard more because of the type of starting pitcher he projects to be.

 

Regardless, it's irrelevant when Zobrist would be coming back with a comp pick though? (In said scenario) It's very hard for spects to make the MLB in less than 2 years regardless. The pick holds a ton of value. Meh, I'm still a bit confused, I haven't slept since yesterday...

 

I'd make that trade all day long, thing is, the Rays won't.

[L54]

Non of that has anything to do with my point.

 

Your were trying to imply that you could get Sanchez's value back,and even the developmental time, with the comp pick you'd attain for letting Zobrist walk. I simply gave you all the examples of all the comp picks the Jays have made during AA tenure. Not surprisingly not one of them would have achieved what you were implying.

 

Kendall Graveman would be the closest thing to being an example for your argument and before him you'd probably have to go back almost a decade to Shaun Marcum.

 

I don't have time to look up all the data because I'm about to spend my Christmas Eve, eve going ice fishing. What I'm saying is that these players still hold value, whether or not they ever make the majors. That value could be used to acquire a more established talent. The player could become a major league player himself, or he could end a bust (as you're implying, but under the notion that they only have four years to do so).

 

Merry Christmas Dogg you must easily hold the BJMB record for first poster on ignore per user. You just gained +1 today.

[Spanky99]

I don't have time to look up all the data because I'm about to spend my Christmas Eve, eve going ice fishing. What I'm saying is that these players still hold value, whether or not they ever make the majors. That value could be used to acquire a more established talent. The player could become a major league player himself, or he could end a bust (as you're implying, but under the notion that they only have four years to do so).

 

Merry Christmas Dogg you must easily hold the BJMB record for first poster on ignore per user. You just gained +1 today.

 

Ice fishing, where at?