Blue Jays getting second baseman?

[L54]

Ice fishing, where at?

 

I'm home in Sask for Christmas time Spanky. Hopefully they're biting, but more so just to get out and spend time with my brother and some friends.

 

We've been having a great winter, so it only makes sense to get outside and enjoy the outdoors.

[Maahfaace]

Random question with regards to giving up on Sanchez: JFas, or anyone else, would you give up on a pitcher (21yrs old) who posted a FIP of 4.79, 9.4% K/BB% in his 2nd full season of AAA ball?

[GD]

Random question: JFas, or anyone else, would you give up on a pitcher (21yrs old) who posted a FIP of 4.79, 9.4% K/BB% in his 2nd full season of AAA ball?

 

Eh, depends. Could be a Biddle-like situation.

[Spanky__99]

I'm home in Sask for Christmas time Spanky. Hopefully they're biting, but more so just to get out and spend time with my brother and some friends.

 

We've been having a great winter, so it only makes sense to get outside and enjoy the outdoors.

 

Awesome, have a great time. I'm jelly.

[Spanky__99]

Eh, depends. Could be a Biddle-like situation.

 

Which is?

[KingKat]

Non of that has anything to do with my point.

 

Your were trying to imply that you could get Sanchez's value back,and even the developmental time, with the comp pick you'd attain for letting Zobrist walk. I simply gave you all the examples of all the comp picks the Jays have made during AA tenure. Not surprisingly not one of them would have achieved what you were implying.

 

Kendall Graveman would be the closest thing to being an example for your argument and before him you'd probably have to go back almost a decade to Shaun Marcum.

 

Since most of them were HS picks, most of them didn't even have the possibility of acheiving that so I don't really see the relevance. I just said that it's possible IF you made a college pick and you drafted well that you COULD have a similar prospect and not really lose any development time. Obviously if they go the HS route or draft poorly it won't happen but when you consider that there's a chance (not an overwhelming chance or anything but a chance) that you could get all the value you gave up for Zobrist + comp pick out of just the comp pick by draftin a player similar to Sanchez and when you consider that the that if the player was a college player, you wouldn't even lose development time, it gives you an idea of how reasonable a price that would be. You don't need to argue with me as if I'm speaking in absolutes. I'm not.

[Spanky__99]

Go to sleep ya fckn crack head.

 

K.........

[GD]

Which is?

 

Don't you own him? You'd know about the concussion/depression issues, I'd think?

[Spanky__99]

My cat has the DIABEETEEEZ, from drinking da tap waterz?!

[Maahfaace]

the reason i ask, is it seems so many of the members on this site focus solely on advanced pitching stats, which I agree are a useful tool for measuring a pitcher, but are only 50% of the equation to evaluation of a pitcher. For the stats I posted in the scenario listed, would you give up on said pitcher?

 

(21yrs old) who posted a FIP of 4.79, 9.4% K/BB% in his 2nd full season of AAA ball

[Spanky__99]

Don't you own him? You'd know about the concussion/depression issues, I'd think?

 

Oh that, meh!

[Spanky__99]

the reason i ask, is it seems so many of the members on this site focus solely on advanced pitching stats, which I agree are a useful tool for measuring a pitcher, but are only 50% of the equation to evaluation of a pitcher. For the stats I posted in the scenario listed, would you give up on said pitcher?

 

Not at 21 bro.

[L54]

Awesome, have a great time. I'm jelly.

 

Cheers, mate!

[Maahfaace]

Not at 21 bro.

 

I assume you are one of the pro Keep Sanchez guys then?

[BTS]

the reason i ask, is it seems so many of the members on this site focus solely on advanced pitching stats, which I agree are a useful tool for measuring a pitcher, but are only 50% of the equation to evaluation of a pitcher. For the stats I posted in the scenario listed, would you give up on said pitcher?

 

(21yrs old) who posted a FIP of 4.79, 9.4% K/BB% in his 2nd full season of AAA ball

 

Not nearly enough information.

[Maahfaace]

not nearly enough information.

 

7-9 5.08 era 131 ip 97 k 43bb WHIP 1.47

[L54]

the reason i ask, is it seems so many of the members on this site focus solely on advanced pitching stats, which I agree are a useful tool for measuring a pitcher, but are only 50% of the equation to evaluation of a pitcher. For the stats I posted in the scenario listed, would you give up on said pitcher?

 

(21yrs old) who posted a FIP of 4.79, 9.4% K/BB% in his 2nd full season of AAA ball

 

Giving up is a definite expression. I don't think anyone has "given up" on Sanchez. I just think a lot of posters have come to terms that the possibility of him reaching his ceiling is limited. He holds much more value as a trade chip.

 

His inability to limit walks (SSS at the big league level, much more data in the minors) and induce swinging strikes with above average stuff is what is worrisome to me.

[GD]

Oh that, meh!

 

Not meh, concussions suuuuck

 

7-9 5.08 era 131 ip 97 k 43bb

 

Not what he meant lol

[Maahfaace]

Giving up is a definite expression. I don't think anyone has "given up" on Sanchez. I just think a lot of posters have come to terms that the possibility of him reaching his ceiling is limited. He holds much more value as a trade chip.

 

His inability to limit walks (SSS at the big league level, much more data in the minors) and induce swinging strikes with above average stuff is what is worrisome to me.

 

given up is probably the wrong term, lets assume its the same feeling people have on Sanchez then

[Maahfaace]

I look at Sanchez and see insanely good stuff, his FB is ++, his curve is deadly, change-up needs work, but he has top of the rotation stuff with control issues.

[Abomination]

I think in general, sinkerballers are always going to have low swinging strike rates because frankly, the pitch is designed to be hit. That doesn't mean they can't be highly successful. Henderson Alvarez just posted a 3.57 xFIP season (2.65 era), and Derek Lowe had hugely valuable seasons as a starter for years. I think Sanchez has the secondary stuff to completely dominate though, if he can finish harnessing it.

[Spanky__99]

I assume you are one of the pro Keep Sanchez guys then?

 

Not necessarily, if we keep him, I hope he's better than an RP, if he succeeds as a starter...Gravy. Moving him for Zobrist at his MILB peak as a top end spect, I wouldn't be butt-hurt, if that's what you mean. Baseball's a gamble on the business side of things. The Jays would be pretty f***ing legit with BZ on this roster.

[BTS]

I think in general, sinkerballers are always going to have low swinging strike rates because frankly, the pitch is designed to be hit. That doesn't mean they can't be highly successful. Henderson Alvarez just posted a 3.57 xFIP season (2.65 era), and Derek Lowe had hugely valuable seasons as a starter for years. I think Sanchez has the secondary stuff to completely dominate though, if he can finish harnessing it.

 

He'll need command. Nobody wants to run Carlos Silva out there.

[BTS]

And now that I look at the numbers, Carlos Silva is not what I thought he was. Egregious comp, I'm dumn etc...

[Spanky__99]

Not meh, concussions suuuuck

 

I agree, at least he doesn't play football/rugby or hockey, nor catch, RIP d'Arnaud, he's a pitcher, he'll be alright.

[Maahfaace]

Just to illustrate how advanced stats are not the be all end all, said player in my scenario was Julio Tehran of the Braves. Alot of posters on the Braves site thought he was going to be a bust after that repeat year in AAA and his early MLB numbers. People talk a ton about Sanchez' K-rate/ Swingstrike % being low, but he almost exclusively throws fastballs right now. He has better pure stuff than Julio, who is a pretty fine pitcher for the Braves. Im in the camp of holding on to Sanchez to see if he can learn to "pitch" with his amazing stuff.

[Spanky__99]

I look at Sanchez and see insanely good stuff, his FB is ++, his curve is deadly, change-up needs work, but he has top of the rotation stuff with control issues.

 

We all know this though? The latter is the problem, he certainly has age on his side.

[Spanky__99]

Phil Hughes started attacking hitters and added a cutter with command...who f***ing knows, lol.

[KingKat]

I look at Sanchez and see insanely good stuff, his FB is ++, his curve is deadly, change-up needs work, but he has top of the rotation stuff with control issues.

 

I think the frustrating thing with Sanchez is that what you describe above was basically his scouting report from day one. So even though he's still certainly young, the lack of progress is concerning. That being said pitcher are a peculiar breed. Cliff Lee was nearly 30 when he finally put it together. Nothing is set in stone with Sanchez but short term his biggest value to the Jays seems to be as a trade chip (with the caveat that we don't actually know what anyone would actually pay for Sanchez at this point.) Furthermore, I think overall skepticism is warranted.

[Spanky__99]

I think the frustrating thing with Sanchez is that what you describe above was basically his scouting report from day one. So even though he's still certainly young, the lack of progress is concerning. That being said pitcher are a peculiar breed. Cliff Lee was nearly 30 when he finally put it together. Nothing is set in stone with Sanchez but short term his biggest value to the Jays seems to be as a trade chip (with the caveat that we don't actually know what anyone would actually pay for Sanchez at this point.) Furthermore, I think overall skepticism is warranted.

 

It's warranted with most pitchers, they throw a baseball. My arm's spaghetti cause of it, lol.