Are the Jays going for it or not? Please say this isn't another year stuck in limbo..

[jays76]

Hey guys like everyone else I've loved all the moves AA has made this off season but the momentum seems to have come to a grounding halt. Not just because moves aren't being made at the same fap worthy pace but because the mood has changed in multiple articles I've read about the Jays not having as much budget left to work with as originally believed. Sure there's a ton of time left to make moves and I get the crying poor smokescreen to the other GM's & Agents so I'm still optimistic, but yet I still can't get that knot out of my stomach or shake the feeling of impending limbo like I had all of last year.

 

Last year I had a feeling of perpetual frustration due to the Jays not making moves in the off season (which I however understood coming off the prior clusterf*** of a season). Like most people I was irritated they didn't sign Santana along with hearing the pathetic clubhouse salary defferal articles but I understood their position and gave management the benefit of the doubt, but what I couldn't forgive or understand was when the Jays had a tenuous grip on the wildcard and were still up 3 games at the AS break the fans, media, and even the players were pleading to management for reinforcements to no avail. It's hard to say now what would've came of it but it really felt like at the time we just needed a decent piece or two to capitalize on the momentum we'd built and make that final push to the playoffs. I remember all the Rogers is cheap and AA is a smokeblower backlash on here and for the most part I agreed, why not drop an extra 10-15mil and seize the momentum and cash in on the playoff ratings and drive. I mean ultimately if they failed the team could just shed payroll in the off season, personally I think most saw it as a lost opportunity.

 

Now Bautista, EE, Reyes, Dickey, etc. are a year older and the window will be even tighter to go all in. AA came out like gangbusters and signed Martin and traded for Donaldson which indicated they might be maximizing this Bautista/EE window but not so fast, they trade for Saunders and pass on Melky which I think is a great cost saving move to spread out the salary and plug some holes but a myriad of useful free agents get signed and pass us by and now out come all the articles about budget restrictions. I'd hate to think I'm a mark for this line of thought but who knows maybe I am after being snakebit so hard last year, all I know is if we're in let's go for it and if we're not let's tear it down because having an identity crisis like last year is the absolute worst place you can be.

[Dr. Dinger]

Are you serious? We've already added two 5 WAR players.

[z3r0s]

Are you serious? We've already added two 5 WAR players.

 

It was TLDR, but I can see people getting annoyed that we aren't continuing to add useful prices at reasonable pieces for what seems like payroll reasons.

[xposbrad]

Are you serious? We've already added two 5 WAR players.

 

That unfortunately won't be enough.

[Mikeleelop]

Are you serious? We've already added two 5 WAR players.

 

they've added two 5 WAR players but have significant uncertainty in the bullpen, fifth starter, 2B and CF

 

The same issues as they had at the end of last season. I think the Jays need to fill the bullpen with some strong options then I will think AA had a great offseason. Its been good so far, but I don't think they have risen to the top of the AL East yet. I'm very worried about the "budget constraint" ******** that seems to be coming out. AA said they should be very close to a top10 payroll. That is the talk that makes me think Rogers won't let AA finish his job with the current lineup. Hope I'm wrong, but I have an uneasy feeling that we are close and won't get to finish the deal........

[JFD]

who needs pitching anyways.. we added like 5 wars

[jays76]

Are you serious? We've already added two 5 WAR players.

 

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying I'm not over the moon about the moves AA has made but let's just say I'm cautiously optimistic about the continuity he'll make going forward as our pitching staff needs 3 decent arms and we could use some infield and outfield depth. It's way to early for overreaction and I'm not trying to be a debbie downer with this post but I pray to the stars we don't have to go through another competitive year and hear about all the budget restrictions when we're only a piece or two away again and the city is in a baseball fervor..

[TDotttt2005]

How do you define Going for it?

 

Every GM goes for it given the budget they're given. Whether the payroll is 50 mil, 100 mil, 150 mil, every GM is 'going for it', by fielding the best team they can with their given budget. If you define Going for it by the payroll, or an unlimited budget for payroll, then the Jays will never be going for it, at least under current ownership. That said, a budget of $130-140 should be enough for a team to be serious about going for it.

 

I think you can say that AA is going for it in that he's traded youth and given up a first rd pick for players that will help now. We get the limbo feeling because Beeston and AA are never honest about what their budget is, and we always worry in the back of our minds that at any given moment, everything can be slashed.

 

But to answer your question. We have a $130-140 mil payroll, which is enough to win now. We are trying to win now. We are going for it.

[Boxcar]

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying I'm not over the moon about the moves AA has made but let's just say I'm cautiously optimistic about the continuity he'll make going forward as our pitching staff needs 3 decent arms and we could use some infield and outfield depth. It's way to early for overreaction and I'm not trying to be a debbie downer with this post but I pray to the stars we don't have to go through another competitive year and hear about all the budget restrictions when we're only a piece or two away again and the city is in a baseball fervor..

 

I understand and share your concerns, but at least now I think the Jays and Sox have to be 1 and 1a in the AL East. I gotta believe they will add an arm or two once Navarro is dealt, and hopefully they snag Toritani.

[jays76]

How do you define Going for it?

 

Every GM goes for it given the budget they're given. Whether the payroll is 50 mil, 100 mil, 150 mil, every GM is 'going for it', by fielding the best team they can with their given budget. If you define Going for it by the payroll, or an unlimited budget for payroll, then the Jays will never be going for it, at least under current ownership. That said, a budget of $130-140 should be enough for a team to be serious about going for it.

 

I think you can say that AA is going for it in that he's traded youth and given up a first rd pick for players that will help now. We get the limbo feeling because Beeston and AA are never honest about what their budget is, and we always worry in the back of our minds that at any given moment, everything can be slashed.

 

But to answer your question. We have a $130-140 mil payroll, which is enough to win now. We are trying to win now. We are going for it.

 

Great point, I'm sure AA really is going for it to the best of his ability. I guess this is geared more towards the ownership, when the time comes will they drop the leash off of him and allow him the extra 15Mil to take a shot at the playoffs when we can almost taste it? Will they have the foresight to take a risk to invest on the team when it could pay massive dividends in merchandise and playoff ratings/revenue like other competitive teams do that time of year? I hope they will when the time comes this year unlike last season.

[xposbrad]

I understand and share your concerns, but at least now I think the Jays and Sox have to be 1 and 1a in the AL East. I gotta believe they will add an arm or two once Navarro is dealt, and hopefully they snag Toritani.

 

I think it's more like 1 and 2. Not 1 and 1a. I also think Boston is going to add a #1/#2 top end starter, further solidifying that 1 status. I think the Jays will do some minor tweaking to the BP, trade for a closer, and call it a day. I don't see them going after a premium stud pitcher, do you?

[Chappy]

Are you serious? We've already added two 5 WAR players.

 

People have unrealistic expectations. AA has done a tremendous job this winter, yet he doesn't do anything for what two weeks now and we're all of a sudden in limbo? This is a contender without doing anything else, but it would be silly to think AA is done yet.

[Dr. Dinger]

they've added two 5 WAR players but have significant uncertainty in the bullpen, fifth starter, 2B and CF

 

Every team has weaknesses. We've added more wins so far than pretty much every other team, and it's not even Christmas.

[Boxcar]

I think it's more like 1 and 2. Not 1 and 1a. I also think Boston is going to add a #1/#2 top end starter, further solidifying that 1 status. I think the Jays will do some minor tweaking to the BP, trade for a closer, and call it a day. I don't see them going after a premium stud pitcher, do you?

 

I just don't see how Boston is clearly better. In any case, I have to believe at least one WC comes from the east. Hutchison and Stroman are both good pitchers, could easily see Hutch become a solid #2 and Stroman has a fairly decent chance of being that TOR everyone is clamoring for. Boston's starting staff is not very impressive to me and there's not even much upside there. Toronto's lineup is better. When your biggest concern is how the bullpen is shaping up, I'd say you're in a pretty good place.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Sign shields already, f***! Please AA, please!

 

Instant upgrade to starting rotation and helps the pen too!

Shields,Dickey,Stroman,Buehrle and Hutch ! Sexy Sexy plus a easy 1000 innings you can bank on it!

Plus with what pen arms are getting is 20-23 mill for shields crazy money? I think not! Especially with buehrle and possibly Dickey coming off the books next year!

[fireballW]

Sign shields already, f***! Please AA, please!

 

Instant upgrade to starting rotation and helps the pen too!

Shields,Dickey,Stroman,Buehrle and Hutch ! Sexy Sexy plus a easy 1000 innings you can bank on it!

Plus with what pen arms are getting is 20-23 mill for shields crazy money? I think not! Especially with buehrle and possibly Dickey coming off the books next year!

 

What did I just read? 5 pitchers would pitch an easy 1000 innings? How often do the 5 starting pitchers on a team make it each to over 200 IP?

[Chappy]

As exciting as getting a guy like Shields would be, we really don't need him. The biggest need right now is 2B and the pen, and we may already have our long term solution for 2B in house. The pen is the easiest area to address and it makes sense AA is feeling out the market and not blowing significant money on the top tier RP. We still have Navarro in house who is likely to get traded as well, and RP in return makes a lot of sense. I just don't see as much concern here to be honest. I mean worst case scenario, one of Estrada or Sanchez end up in the pen, AA gets a RP for Navarro and we also have Cecil, Loup, and Redmond. Rasmussen has also looked like he could be serviceable and Jenkins makes a fine long man. Plus we have Delabar who is a big wild card. It's not a great group, but it's not going to prevent this team from contending either.

[Chappy]

What did I just read? 5 pitchers would pitch an easy 1000 innings? How often do the 5 starting pitchers on a team make it each to over 200 IP?

 

It's as easy as spending $20-$25 million just because.

[Boxcar]

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/toward-a-pitch-arsenal-score-ranking-statistic/

 

But there are some names that should go on your sleeper lists because they are listed here. Marcus Stroman has the arsenal of an ace.

 

Eno didn't spend a lot of words writing about Stroman, but his pitch arsenal ranks very high in this study. He has all the capability in the world to be the ace Toronto needs.

[Stangstag]

I think we DO need Shields. One injury to our rotation during the season and we are f***ED. Another starter would be nice.

[Deadpool]

...they trade for Saunders and pass on Melky which I think is a great cost saving move to spread out the salary and plug some holes...

 

I'm going to make a bold prediction that not only is Saunders cheaper than Melky, but that he'll have a better season in 2015 than Melky.

[Chappy]

I think we DO need Shields. One injury to our rotation during the season and we are f***ED. Another starter would be nice.

 

How so? We have 7 legitimate options for our rotation at this point between Dickey, Buehrle, Stroman, Hutch, Estrada, Sanchez, and Norris. Add in a guy like Redmond or Jenkins who can spot start if needed and we are fine.

[Deadpool]

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/toward-a-pitch-arsenal-score-ranking-statistic/

 

 

 

Eno didn't spend a lot of words writing about Stroman, but his pitch arsenal ranks very high in this study. He has all the capability in the world to be the ace Toronto needs.

 

Interesting tidbit from that article: Aaron Sanchez has the best sinker in baseball and Brett Cecil has the best curve in baseball. (according to this method of valuation...)

[TheHurl]

Time is the Jays friend at this point. No need to pay premium prices unless it's July and there is still a big need. Last year we saw some perceived bargains at the end of the off season. If the right price comes along you take it.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

What did I just read? 5 pitchers would pitch an easy 1000 innings? How often do the 5 starting pitchers on a team make it each to over 200 IP?

 

This one would as it would be set up with those five in the rotation! Easy!

[L54]

This one would as it would be set up with those five in the rotation! Easy!

 

I don't think 1000 innings from five starters should ever be considered easy.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Also buehrle and off the books next year is what 29-31 mill off the books next!

 

Damn you Rogers pay it Forward! Just win now Baby!

 

Cause soon that window will become a Door! Bam right into another wall!

[LongTimeReader]

TLDR

 

In:

Donaldson, Martin, Saunders, Travis, Smoak

 

Out:

Lawrie, Graveman, Nolin, Baretto, Gose, Happ

 

Amazing.

 

Also,

 

In: Estrada

 

Out: Lind

[Chappy]

Hendriks and Albers too.

Also have guys like Castro, Osuna and maybe even Cole ready into the season.

 

Good point. Although I'm not sure I'd expect Osuna up in 2015.

[jays76]

People have unrealistic expectations. AA has done a tremendous job this winter, yet he doesn't do anything for whaoptimistict two weeks now and we're all of a sudden in limbo? This is a contender without doing anything else, but it would be silly to think AA is done yet.

 

Kudos to AA, he really has done an amazing job this off season. Believe me no one wants me to be wrong more than me, I'll be cautiously optimistic and hoping for the best going forward. Are we in limbo now? It's definitely to early to make a judgment and that's not what I was saying, what I was getting at is I hope we don't end up in the same predicament as last year come the AS break where the team's competitive but they refuse to cough up dough.