Toritani signing?

[Olerud363]

I'm hoping Travis makes the team right out of Spring Training, f*** it. Let's hope Gibby and AA is savvy enough to take Goins up with them and use him a late inning defensive replacement for Reyes. Reyes' ego will surely take a hit, but f*** him.

 

It would be interesting to see this happen. I wouldn't be against spotting Goins at short, Reyes at dh occasionally either.

 

Despite giving you a hard time I am rooting for Goins. I don't pretend to know that he'll never hit at all. He could fill the John McDonald role maybe??

[gruber92]

You asked me to do all of that but I'm the s*** disturber. No longer worth arguing with because if I try and make a legitimate, long post that required actual effort I get this s***. Goodbye.

 

I didn't ask you to do all that but i do appreciate the time you spent. I just don't like the "let's roll with Goins" comments when i'm admitting he's a long shot at best in sticking as a starter. I'm just hoping for the guy to turn his offense around because i would love that defense on the field all the time.

[Atothe]

Wasn't majority of his defensive value at 2nd and isn't Goins said to be a lesser defender at short then he is at second?

[GD]

I didn't ask you to do all that but i do appreciate the time you spent. I just don't like the "let's roll with Goins" comments when i'm admitting he's a long shot at best in sticking as a starter. I'm just hoping for the guy to turn his offense around because i would love that defense on the field all the time.

 

I just don't think he'll be able to provide the necessary offense and we can probably leave it there.

[GD]

Wasn't majority of his defensive value at 2nd and isn't Goins said to be a lesser defender at short then he is at second?

 

Yes but he gets 5 extra runs per 600 PA of positional adjustment at short

[gruber92]

Wasn't majority of his defensive value at 2nd and isn't Goins said to be a lesser defender at short then he is at second?

 

Slightly.

[Orgfiller]

He has the power,easily. Just has to put together good AB's.

 

A ton of atom balls amirite?

[Orgfiller]

What's their DH situation like now that Butler is gone? Navarro at $5mil can put up similar if not better numbers than Butler.

 

Except that Butler is younger and has a career wRC+ of 117 (last year an anomaly for him) and is projected for 119, while Navarro is a career 86 wRC+ projected to be a league average hitter, and is, miraculously, slower than Billy Butler.

[o2cui2i]

Slightly.

 

you should really go with "agree to disagree" and then use the "I told you so" if Hell freezes over.

[TheHurl]

Gruber has made it very tough for a guy like me that has always said that Goins should someday be a 25 man/minor league depth guy. At this point I just want Goins to get a full season of stats to stop this forever

[o2cui2i]

Gruber has made it very tough for a guy like me that has always said that Goins should someday be a 25 man/minor league depth guy. At this point I just want Goins to get a full season of stats to stop this forever

 

a team can carry an all glove guy if the other 8 guys can keep the line moving. Goins would make the team essentially into a NL team.

[wardhenke1]

There's a pretty decent chance that Lowrie just wouldn't want to come here, and even if so you're looking at at least ~3/33 for him.

 

It's easy to drop hypotheticals like "just sign this guy instead" but people need to realize that not every player is available to every team. Especially for a team like Toronto trying to attract free agents, more often than not they basically have no fair chance at signing them.

 

Toritani is much more likely to sign in Toronto for multiple reasons and he fits for multiple reasons. It's not a case of Toritani vs. Lowrie, because that's a fantasy choice for Toronto. In reality it might be a case of Toritani vs. the status quo, or Toritani vs. some trade overpay for a stopgap 2B like Daniel Murphy when the club already has Devon Travis who they think can fill 2B in 2016 or even late 2015.

 

Toritani has merits as a realistic target; Jed Lowrie remains nothing but a FA unicorn.

 

should of just signed Robinsin Canoe ugh

 

*sigh* I've forgotten why I even care about this any more. Bravo to you and all those who thanked you for not noticing the 'or equivalent' after the Jed Lowrie in my post. Y'know, as in another major leaguer who could work. Other than Lowrie. Someone who has already played in the majors. Someone who has not been exclusively in Japan over the last decade. Someone who has actually played major league baseba.....f*** it, why bother? Let's just see how it all pans out.

[Atothe]

*sigh* I've forgotten why I even care about this any more. Bravo to you and all those who thanked you for not noticing the 'or equivalent' after the Jed Lowrie in my post. Y'know, as in another major leaguer. Other than Lowrie. Someone who has already played in the majors. Someone who has not been exclusively in Japan over the last decade. Someone who has actually played major league baseba.....f*** it, why bother? Let's just see how it all pans out.

 

The equivalent is Stephen Drew, again do you think Stephen Drew will come to toronto?

[wardhenke1]

The equivalent is Stephen Drew, again do you think Stephen Drew will come to toronto?

 

Well, Boras certainly thought so last year. I actually supported signing Drew at the time, but of course it never happened because of budget constraints which many on here also denied existed last season.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/2/26/5449392/stephen-drew-free-agent-rumors-blue-jays

 

Seriously I'm going to stop posting about this. I'm starting to feel like Frank Grimes...

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvaiggy9d21qh59n0o1_500.gif

[labadee]

Well, Boras certainly thought so last year. I actually supported signing Drew at the time, but of course it never happened because of budget constraints which many on here also denied existed last season.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/2/26/5449392/stephen-drew-free-agent-rumors-blue-jays

 

Seriously I'm going to stop posting about this. I'm starting to feel like Frank Grimes...

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvaiggy9d21qh59n0o1_500.gif

 

just stay clear of the wires.

[GreekFatAss]

just stay clear of the wires.

 

Please Don't.

[fapaholic]

KC is unlikely to want or need Navarro as they have Perez at C and just signed Morales to DH........

 

 

What's their DH situation like now that Butler is gone? Navarro at $5mil can put up similar if not better numbers than Butler.

 

He is. I think Infante has two years left at $10mil per. The Royals are listening to offers for him and i think Infante will get back to his old numbers with a scenery change and a hitter friendly park. The Hispanic angle could help also. Not a horrible DH replacement while saving $5 mil a season.

 

What salary? Navarro is in his last year at $5mil, while Infante has two years left at $10mil per.

 

Except that Butler is younger and has a career wRC+ of 117 (last year an anomaly for him) and is projected for 119, while Navarro is a career 86 wRC+ projected to be a league average hitter, and is, miraculously, slower than Billy Butler.

[TBJ12]

Well, Boras certainly thought so last year. I actually supported signing Drew at the time, but of course it never happened because of budget constraints which many on here also denied existed last season.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/2/26/5449392/stephen-drew-free-agent-rumors-blue-jays

 

Seriously I'm going to stop posting about this. I'm starting to feel like Frank Grimes...

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvaiggy9d21qh59n0o1_500.gif

 

It's a real shame we weren't the only team in the league to offer Drew $40M.

[Laika]

*sigh* I've forgotten why I even care about this any more. Bravo to you and all those who thanked you for not noticing the 'or equivalent' after the Jed Lowrie in my post. Y'know, as in another major leaguer who could work. Other than Lowrie. Someone who has already played in the majors. Someone who has not been exclusively in Japan over the last decade. Someone who has actually played major league baseba.....f*** it, why bother? Let's just see how it all pans out.

 

I know you said you're "done" with the topic, but have a look at the possible equivalents for me.

 

Second Basemen

 

Gordon Beckham (28)

Emilio Bonifacio (30)

Daniel Descalso (28)

Mark Ellis (38)

Rafael Furcal (37)

Jonathan Herrera (30)

Brandon Hicks (29)

Kelly Johnson (33)

Ed Lucas (33)

Ramon Santiago (35)

Chris Valaika (29)

Rickie Weeks (32)

Josh Wilson (34)

 

Shortstops

 

Asdrubal Cabrera (29)

Everth Cabrera (28)

Stephen Drew (32)

Jonathan Herrera (30)

Jed Lowrie (31)

Ed Lucas (33)

John McDonald (40)

 

There's just nothing there even close to Lowrie, other than Asdrubal and maybe Drew. Drew is going to want to sign as a starting SS, so count him out. Cabrera has declined pretty hard in the last two years, ostensibly, and he no longer seems like a league average player. He's a tick below Lowrie, all things considered (similar hitter but much worse defensively) and given the limited talent out there he might get an uncomfortable amount of money.

[TwistedLogic]

I know you said you're "done" with the topic, but have a look at the possible equivalents for me

 

Now why would you go and do this? How in the world is he supposed to carry on his narrative now?

[Laika]

Now why would you go and do this? How in the world is he supposed to carry on his narrative now?

 

Well, he can read my post, realize he's wrong, but save face by simply never responding.

[Spanky__99]

How can you say that? I know our farm system better than most people that post on this board, maybe you included.

 

K.....................

[Spanky__99]

Lol,based on what? He's a weak slap hitting all glove with a noodle arm infielder. He can't play short or third with much efficiency. He may draw a lot of pitches per AB, but that's it. Goins would produce a higher WAR in the same amount of playing time guaranteed, and we don't have to pay him $3.3mil per for three years. This would be a joke of a signing, as essentially he would clone Kawasaki. Actually, I think Kawasaki has a better arm from the video I had seen, but not a better glove.

 

Noodle arm, can't play SS how do you know? No one really knows, he'd be coming here primarily as a 2nd baseman. In this write up he has an above average arm, and read it elsewhere as well, a couple days ago. Easy on the Goins boner, he could take reps everyday in Buffalo, and come up as a 25th man, in a pinch.

 

http://www.amazinavenue.com/2014/11/14/7176367/international-free-agent-profile-takashi-toritani

[Spanky__99]

Not a fair assessment when playing in spurts. Over the course of consistent play for a season, Goins is a 1.5 - 2 WAR player.

 

Oh my....

 

96 games, amirite?

[Spanky__99]

What's their DH situation like now that Butler is gone? Navarro at $5mil can put up similar if not better numbers than Butler.

 

Kendrys Morales.

[Spanky__99]

The equivalent is Stephen Drew, again do you think Stephen Drew will come to toronto?

 

It's possible seeing as the Jays are kicking tires on Takashi Toritani, a Boras client.

[Spanky__99]

Well, Boras certainly thought so last year. I actually supported signing Drew at the time, but of course it never happened because of budget constraints which many on here also denied existed last season.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/2/26/5449392/stephen-drew-free-agent-rumors-blue-jays

 

That had much more to do with Beeston/Boras relationship, than just money.

[Spanky__99]

This thread was rather interesting.

[KingKat]

I basically trust Blurnandez's assessment of this guy's defense as much as I trust any scout. Defensive scouting reports are just notoriously unreliable and borderline useless. In one of the scouting reports, a guy says he has the best throwing arm of any shortstop and one sentence later he says he doesn't think he can stick at SS. There's tons of hedging and smokescreening in all of these reports. Say what you will about Keith Law and how often he's wrong, at least he makes his (wrong) assessments plainly.

 

If the Jays like his defense enough to sign him, I will be inclined to believe them. They've been right before (Brett Lawrie whose defense the scouts hardly loved) and they've also been horribly, horribly wrong (the MI fiasco of 2013 where they ignored bad defensive stats from two key acquisitions). After acquiring Martin and Donaldson, it really does seem like the team is taking defense very, very seriously and being thorough about it as opposed to just paying lip service to it. I'm going to trust that they will do their homework and get this one right (get whoever thought Brett Lawrie would be a good 3B to look at him). For the first time in a long time, I feel, perhaps naively, like I can actually give the team the benefit of the doubt and since that's just way more fun than being despaired all the time, I'm just going to trust that the team assessed this guy properly and made the decision whether or not to sign him accordingly.

[Jimcanuck]

This thread was rather interesting.

 

are you off the sauce or something