Your 1 to 5 batting order

[L54]

Mighty Louse is still available!

 

Hahaha that might be a more appropriate name

 

Nah, no ill hate towards Goins. Just he isn't served as anything more than a 25th man on this team. I could live with that.

[jays76]

Reyes, SS

Cabrera, LF*

Bautista, RF

Encarnacion, 1B

Donaldson, 3B

Martin, C

Smoak/Lind, DH*

Goins, 2B*

Pompey, CF

 

*This lineup would've been my most fapworthy if we could've held onto Lind and resigned Melky (for lefty hitting purposes). With all the AB firepower I'd start the defensive wizard Goins at 2B (with Kawasaki) until Travis is ready then find a way to cut our losses with the useless Izturis and Tolleson. I'd keep Mayberry & Valencia around for depth and occasional platoon work and we'd also have Pillar who's defensively adequate in the outfield.

 

At this point you'd be focusing on pitching, payroll would've been a little tighter with Lind but we'd still have some wiggle room plus a few trade piece options with Navarro, Happ, Sanchez/Norris (and potentially another prospect) plus a Izturis type depth player to rig up a package to attain a front of the rotation starter. For the closer as crazy as it sounds to start the season I'd consider resigning Casey Janssen, I think we could get him on a short contract for cheap as the market isn't in his favor and then just do some reshuffling mid season if we need to tweak our pen.

[Stangstag]

Do you not remember how bad Janssen was last year? I dont want him back

[guylaroche5]

honestly had izturis not had a hilariously bad 2013 i probably would have forgotten about his existence

[43211234]

Izturis was the worst player in the league in 2013. In 2015 he'll be 2 years older and coming off a major injury. I don't want him on the roster.

[burlingtonbandit]

I don't get this "since we made good moves at other positions we can go into the season with Goins/Izturis at 2B". Do people not remember how bad those 2 players have been the last 2 years. You are just wasting talent yet again by having a blackhole at that position. Especailly if you have a rookie CF, you can't go into the season with 2 or 3 massive question marks.

 

Against RHP the offence really isn't any better than last year. Lind put up a 164wRC+ and Melky 128 wRC+ vs RHP. Donaldson put up 110 wRC+ vs RHP last year while Martin had 148wRC+. Martin very likely will regress and Bautista, Edwin, Reyes are all another year older. Taking all that into account this offence is noticeably worse than last year if you were to go ahead with the options at hand.

 

This team still needs a LF and 2B and can't afford to go into the season with dogshit at 2B and LF.

Edited November 30, 2014 by burlingtonbandit

[jays76]

Do you not remember how bad Janssen was last year? I dont want him back

 

Yeah he was pretty bad and very inconsistent but he did have some nagging injuries, overall his body of work with the Jays has been pretty impressive. I'd only do it if he was 100% healthy and like I said on an extremely short & cheap contract.

[Mikeleelop]

Well, Maicer can play 3B, SS, 2B, and he's played in the OF in the past I believe. And he's a switch-hitter who can lay down a bunt. An excellent asset off the bench.

 

Um no he can't. He is not a MLB level defender any longer. Look at 2013 stats.

[Dick_Pole]

I don't get this "since we made good moves at other positions we can go into the season with Goins/Izturis at 2B". Do people not remember how bad those 2 players have been the last 2 years. You are just wasting talent yet again by having a blackhole at that position. Especailly if you have a rookie CF, you can't go into the season with 2 or 3 massive question marks.

 

Against RHP the offence really isn't any better than last year. Lind put up a 164wRC+ and Melky 128 wRC+ vs RHP. Donaldson put up 110 wRC+ vs RHP last year while Martin had 148wRC+. Martin very likely will regress and Bautista, Edwin, Reyes are all another year older. Taking all that into account this offence is noticeably worse than last year if you were to go ahead with the options at hand.

 

This team still needs a LF and 2B and can't afford to go into the season with dogshit at 2B and LF.

 

The top reason for my urgency over getting quality MIF was from Lawrie's injury risk. Based on how the team was constructed last year and what it would look like prior to the Travis trade we would have Goins, Izturis AND Kawasaki in the line-up at the same time in the not unlikely circumstance that Reyes and Lawrie are out of the lineup at the same time. Only Valencia was added to that mix so it was still a huge priority.

 

Now that the Jays have a guy that can be reasonably expected to play 150+ games at 3B, that urgency drops. It drops further with every step forward Travis takes towards an MLB career. I would prefer that 2B has added depth, but at least I won't hammer my keyboard and pull my hair out if it doesn't happen.

[Mikeleelop]

I really wonder if AA had to decide again with Lind but this time knowing he has Martin and JD, do you think he would make that same trade???/ I think now he would keep him.

 

Lind was traded for a reason. They wanted him off the team

[Jimcanuck]

Um no he can't. He is not a MLB level defender any longer. Look at 2013 stats.

 

He can off the bench. Agree he is a mediocre fielder but his versatility off the bench is valuable.

[Olerud363]

BA and OBP do not accurately measure how good a batter is. Use wRC+.

Steamer projects Edwin for 142, and Martin for 111.

Edwin had a 150 last year and Martin had 140.

2013 Edwin had 144 and Martin had 102.

 

Edwin is clearly the better hitter. Martin is the better player.

 

Even using OPS gets you almost there _most_ of the time. Edwin .830ish career, Martin .750ish career. That tells the story. If it was closer the advanced stats are useful to determine who is better.

 

Hitting is on base + power adjusted for park and era. Sounds like the guy you were replying to forgot the power part.

[Ehjays]

Yeah he was pretty bad and very inconsistent but he did have some nagging injuries, overall his body of work with the Jays has been pretty impressive. I'd only do it if he was 100% healthy and like I said on an extremely short & cheap contract.

 

Jansen had a great run with us, last year i believe is a sign of him on the decline. Regardless how cheap a contract, Lets let him go and move on.

[burlingtonbandit]

The top reason for my urgency over getting quality MIF was from Lawrie's injury risk. Based on how the team was constructed last year and what it would look like prior to the Travis trade we would have Goins, Izturis AND Kawasaki in the line-up at the same time in the not unlikely circumstance that Reyes and Lawrie are out of the lineup at the same time. Only Valencia was added to that mix so it was still a huge priority.

 

Now that the Jays have a guy that can be reasonably expected to play 150+ games at 3B, that urgency drops. It drops further with every step forward Travis takes towards an MLB career. I would prefer that 2B has added depth, but at least I won't hammer my keyboard and pull my hair out if it doesn't happen.

 

Yeah but even if you have a 3B who likely plays 150 games why go into the season with Izturis/Goins at 2B? What if Travis doesn't perform in AAA, then what do you do? Its much harder to fix issues like this during the season so you may as well spend some money and get better in the offseason.

[ineedsheet]

More powerful hitter than Martin, not better, there is a difference. If he was a better hitter he would have a higher BA and OBP. Some of EE`s walks were intentional, not due to his tremendous eye at the plate. All of Martin`s walks were earned.

 

Whether it goes Donaldson before Encarnacion or viceversa, I figured to maximize EE's/Donaldson's ability to drive in runs you would want Martin in that 5th spot given his OBP. He has some power as well. In the 5th slot behind Bautista and Donaldson would there be anyone left for EE to drive in. Putting Martin there would increase runners in scoring position in front of him, and not waste Martin's .400+ OBP. Didn't think it was that dumb of a thought...

 

incredibly stupid post.

[Jimcanuck]

Reyes and whoever bats 2nd better be ready to hit the ball. No pitcher in baseball is going to want to walk them, not with Bautista, EE, and Donaldson (in whatever order) coming up. 2013 Rasmus would be killer in the 2hole.

[RealAccountant]

^ no thanks to rasmus and his ks

[Jimcanuck]

^ no thanks to rasmus and his ks

 

For sure.... but the 2013 version would be great there. Whoever is in the 2hole is going to get a lot of pitches to hit.

[ineedsheet]

why does everyone have this idea that we can't put jose or donaldson in the 2 hole?

 

i personally would love to see jose's high OBP there. maybe donaldson against lefties.

[gbill2004]

For sure.... but the 2013 version would be great there. Whoever is in the 2hole is going to get a lot of pitches to hit.

 

How about trying Pompey in the 2 spot?

[43211234]

How about trying Pompey in the 2 spot?

 

Nah put Pompey at 9th in the order. You need someone that can get on base in the 2 hole. Don't want to be like the cincinnati reds and shoot yourself in the foot by giving him nothing to drive in. I like Donaldson there.

[BlueRocky]

Joey can get on base.

 

Reyes

Bautista

Donaldson

Edcarnacion

Martin?

[Ehjays]

The top reason for my urgency over getting quality MIF was from Lawrie's injury risk. Based on how the team was constructed last year and what it would look like prior to the Travis trade we would have Goins, Izturis AND Kawasaki in the line-up at the same time in the not unlikely circumstance that Reyes and Lawrie are out of the lineup at the same time. Only Valencia was added to that mix so it was still a huge priority.

 

Now that the Jays have a guy that can be reasonably expected to play 150+ games at 3B, that urgency drops. It drops further with every step forward Travis takes towards an MLB career. I would prefer that 2B has added depth, but at least I won't hammer my keyboard and pull my hair out if it doesn't happen.

 

I thought that Dickpole was saying he had an urgency in getting a quality MILF......LOL

[Dick_Pole]

How about trying Pompey in the 2 spot?

 

It would be worth exploring in Spring Training, but most likely he's in the 9th spot. Why put so much pressure on him so soon? Besides he's essentially the leadoff hitter ahead of Reyes for every inning except the first one anyways. No real need to push down the proven bats one spot just for Reyes then Pompey versus Pompey then Reyes.

[Dick_Pole]

I thought that Dickpole was saying he had an urgency in getting a quality MILF......LOL

 

The chick I'm seeing right now is 37, four years older than me. Problem solved. Except she has the body of a former high jumper who has never been burdened with the process of child birth

[Dick_Pole]

Yeah but even if you have a 3B who likely plays 150 games why go into the season with Izturis/Goins at 2B? What if Travis doesn't perform in AAA, then what do you do? Its much harder to fix issues like this during the season so you may as well spend some money and get better in the offseason.

 

No, I agree go after the 2B depth as you can. But the difference is now instead of:

 

"AA GET A QUALITY MIF NOW YOU FAT PIECE OF s*** OR I WILL BURN YOU IN A CONCENTRATION CAMP"

 

It's more like:

 

"AA, please get a quality MIF. It would be nice to have but I won't burn your house down if you fail"

[Ehjays]

the chick i'm seeing right now is 37, four years older than me. Problem solved. Except she has the body of a former high jumper who has never been burdened with the process of child birth

 

lol

[canadiansportsjunkie]

The chick I'm seeing right now is 37, four years older than me. Problem solved. Except she has the body of a former high jumper who has never been burdened with the process of child birth

 

Winning

[ElNik2013]

How about trying Pompey in the 2 spot?

 

 

We're all hoping Pompey is a top of the order hitter, just not yet and not when you can put J, J and J 1,2 and 3.

[John_Havok]

I don't get this "since we made good moves at other positions we can go into the season with Goins/Izturis at 2B". Do people not remember how bad those 2 players have been the last 2 years. You are just wasting talent yet again by having a blackhole at that position. Especailly if you have a rookie CF, you can't go into the season with 2 or 3 massive question marks.

 

Against RHP the offence really isn't any better than last year. Lind put up a 164wRC+ and Melky 128 wRC+ vs RHP. Donaldson put up 110 wRC+ vs RHP last year while Martin had 148wRC+. Martin very likely will regress and Bautista, Edwin, Reyes are all another year older. Taking all that into account this offence is noticeably worse than last year if you were to go ahead with the options at hand.

 

This team still needs a LF and 2B and can't afford to go into the season with dogshit at 2B and LF.

 

I don't hink anyone has said they are "fine" with the LF and 2b positions as they are, more so they realize that aside from further gutting of the farm, there not a lot of options out there via trade, and free agency is never a guarantee you get who you target, and you can't just target a guy and just blindly throw money at them until they sign.

 

Lowrie would likely be a better option at 2b than anyone on house, but where's the guarantee that he even want to to play here? Sure trading for Upton for LF would be wonderful, but are you gonna give up 2 top end prospects for 1 year of the guy when he's all but guaranteed yo go to FA for 2016?

 

It's highly unlikely you are able to put star calibre talent at every spot on the diamond. You also didn't mention Devon Travis as part of the 2b puzzle.