Red Sox: Hoarding prospects doesn't work. Just buy a team.

[G-Snarls]

Are they that upset with the 2014 result??

[NorthOf49]

Boston didn't have much money at all tied up beyond 2015. Pedroia, Castillo, Craig, Uehara.

 

This is them continuing to reap the benefits of the Dodgers trade.

[jaysfan2014]

Didn't we see this a few years ago? And it ended in disaster... I still think it's not going to end well, especially considering the risk Sandoval declines further and HanRam fails in LF.. I mean, he's terrible at SS and 3B.. how will he do in the OF?

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Wish we'd "buy a team." Not like penny-pinching has won us anything in 21 years.

[jaysfan2014]

Boston only bought offense. Unless they're willing to go over the tax, their pitching and defense are still an issue, and their OF is still a quagmire.

[TwistedLogic]

Didn't we see this a few years ago? And it ended in disaster... I still think it's not going to end well, especially considering the risk Sandoval declines further and HanRam fails in LF.. I mean, he's terrible at SS and 3B.. how will he do in the OF?

 

Yes.

 

2010 - Boston Red Sox acquire Carl Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez, Andrew Miller

2011 - Miami Marlins acquire Jose Reyes, Mark Buehrle, Heath Bell

2012 - Toronto Blue Jays acquire Jose Reyes, Mark Buehrle, Josh Johnson, Melky Cabrera, RA Dickey

2013 - New York Yankees acquire Brian McCann, Jacoby Ellsbury, Masahiro Tanaka, Carlos Beltran

 

None of those teams even made the playoffs the following season, let alone having contended for a world series.

[TwistedLogic]

I'd rather spend money and fail, and at least excite the fans, then be "create with payroll" have "payroll parameters" and fail.

 

Then I'd like to refer you to the 2013 Blue Jays season.

 

Enjoy.

[Orgfiller]

I'd rather spend money and fail, and at least excite the fans, then be "create with payroll" have "payroll parameters" and fail.

 

So you want to repeat the 2012-2013 offseason?

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Then I'd like to refer you to the 2013 Blue Jays season.

 

Enjoy.

 

Poor comparison. We didn't just spend money that year, we spent prospects. And anyone who was paying attention knew that team was going to fail, so there was nothing to get excited about.

[jkun41]

Then I'd like to refer you to the 2013 Blue Jays season.

 

Enjoy.

 

2013 they spent prospects and money instead of just money.

[TwistedLogic]

Exactly.

 

Keep your prospects and just spend money. Then if one of your prospects proves to be a difference maker you move the contract, slide your prospect in, and re-allocate those fund to another position of need.

 

Just move the contract? Why is A-Rod still a Yankee? Why is Howard still a Philly? Why was Zito a Giant until he retired? Nobody's sitting around waiting desperately for the first chance they can get to jump at a trash contract. The Red Sox/Dodgers trade is a one time lottery for the Sox and opportunities like that aren't sitting around to pounce on whenever you feel like it. The Marlins didn't spend any prospects in 2011, they finished last in their division. The Yankees spent "only" money last year and finished 12 games back of the division in a season where the entire AL East gave new meaning to the word "mediocre".

 

And yes, YOU would rather spend money and fail, rather than be creative and fail, because it's not your money. But if you got a few hundred million dollars sitting around, please, feel free to hand it over to the Jays and help them relieve their bad contracts and bring in new ones.

[TwistedLogic]

2013 they spent prospects and money instead of just money.

 

His original post said nothing about prospects specifically. He said he'd rather spend money and fail, and at least build excitement. The Jays did exactly that. They spent money, built a lot of excitement, failed. The Red Sox spent money in 2010 and failed. The Marlins did the same in 2012 and failed. The Yankees did the same in 2013, and oh what do you know, they failed.

 

Some people prefer that Rogers spends money and fails as opposed to a plain old boring failure. Cool. A lot of us would prefer for the opposite to happen. If failing is inevitable, then it makes far better sense for that to happen on a smaller payroll while you hope to hit a prospect lottery, rather than locking yourself up with a host of albatross contracts that destroy any flexibility you have now and in the future.

[Deadpool]

Poor comparison. We didn't just spend money that year, we spent prospects. And anyone who was paying attention knew that team was going to fail, so there was nothing to get excited about.

 

So much ******** right here. Everyone in baseball was pegging the Jays to do extremely well in 2013.

[TwistedLogic]

So much ******** right here. Everyone in baseball was pegging the Jays to do extremely well in 2013.

 

Look at the poster's name that you quoted. He's a troll and his entire existence revolves around s***ing on the Jays front office. He has no interest in critical thinking or objective reasoning.

[Ziggyy108]

Then I'd like to refer you to the 2013 Blue Jays season.

 

Enjoy.

 

 

 

Just no. That team was FAR FAR FAR from all in.

 

J.P. Arencibia was the starting catcher with no back up plan. Did you see our second basemen that year. It was f***ing Izturis and Bonifacio. We didn't sign any big free agents... Instead we traded a ton of prospects for a lot of big contracts.

 

Going for it would have been signing Greinkie that winter and not praying that Brandon Morrow is healthy or Josh Johnson can put together a season, or Ricky Romero is going to rebound.

 

There were still a ton of question marks on our roster. And most of the questions were answered negatively in the end.

Good try though.

[jaysfan2014]

Just move the contract? Why is A-Rod still a Yankee? Why is Howard still a Philly? Why was Zito a Giant until he retired? Nobody's sitting around waiting desperately for the first chance they can get to jump at a trash contract. The Red Sox/Dodgers trade is a one time lottery for the Sox and opportunities like that aren't sitting around to pounce on whenever you feel like it. The Marlins didn't spend any prospects in 2011, they finished last in their division. The Yankees spent "only" money last year and finished 12 games back of the division in a season where the entire AL East gave new meaning to the word "mediocre".

 

And yes, YOU would rather spend money and fail, rather than be creative and fail, because it's not your money. But if you got a few hundred million dollars sitting around, please, feel free to hand it over to the Jays and help them relieve their bad contracts and bring in new ones.

 

And if these deals fail for the Red Sox, they'll be stuck with them. Dodgers won't be bailing them out again, especially with Friedman there...

[jaysfan2014]

Just move the contract? Why is A-Rod still a Yankee? Why is Howard still a Philly? Why was Zito a Giant until he retired? Nobody's sitting around waiting desperately for the first chance they can get to jump at a trash contract. The Red Sox/Dodgers trade is a one time lottery for the Sox and opportunities like that aren't sitting around to pounce on whenever you feel like it. The Marlins didn't spend any prospects in 2011, they finished last in their division. The Yankees spent "only" money last year and finished 12 games back of the division in a season where the entire AL East gave new meaning to the word "mediocre".

 

And yes, YOU would rather spend money and fail, rather than be creative and fail, because it's not your money. But if you got a few hundred million dollars sitting around, please, feel free to hand it over to the Jays and help them relieve their bad contracts and bring in new ones.

 

And if these deals fail for the Red Sox, they'll be stuck with them. Dodgers won't be bailing them out again, especially with Friedman there...

[ElNik2013]

And if these deals fail for the Red Sox, they'll be stuck with them. Dodgers won't be bailing them out again, especially with Friedman there...

 

 

You say that again brother, I didn't get it the first time.

[ElNik2013]

Just no. That team was FAR FAR FAR from all in.

 

J.P. Arencibia was the starting catcher with no back up plan. Did you see our second basemen that year. It was f***ing Izturis and Bonifacio. We didn't sign any big free agents... Instead we traded a ton of prospects for a lot of big contracts.

 

Going for it would have been signing Greinkie that winter and not praying that Brandon Morrow is healthy or Josh Johnson can put together a season, or Ricky Romero is going to rebound.

 

There were still a ton of question marks on our roster. And most of the questions were answered negatively in the end.

Good try though.

 

 

And if they hadn't bee able to sign the FA, you would've still been bitching at how they "tried, but trying isn't enough, winners get it done" or something to that effect.

 

Greinke was never gonna sign with the Jays. Only chance they had would've been by overpaying massively. The Jays reportedly met with Anibal Sanchez, but were told it would take a 7 year deal and that he wasn't ready to sign quickly.

 

 

Pay attention, probably every player that has a no-trade clause in his contract has the Jays on their no-trade list.

 

Anyway...

[Pulk_Pull]

I really enjoy the hindsight some people have on the 2013 season.

 

A lot of people did not like it for 'futures' reasons, but very few thought the team would fall apart the way it did. Acting like we knew those moves would results in a terrible 2013 season (not for future seasons) is pretty bold.

[KingKat]

I really enjoy the hindsight some people have on the 2013 season.

 

A lot of people did not like it for 'futures' reasons, but very few thought the team would fall apart the way it did. Acting like we knew those moves would results in a terrible 2013 season (not for future seasons) is pretty bold.

 

Pretty much no one thought they would be as terrible as they were but a lof of people thought that they had a lot of holes for a supposedly all-in team. A lot of people predicted that they wouldn't win with that group unless they kept throwing even more money at it. There was legitimate concern that a rare bump in payroll had been somewhat squandered.

[G-Snarls]

And if they hadn't bee able to sign the FA, you would've still been bitching at how they "tried, but trying isn't enough, winners get it done" or something to that effect.

 

Greinke was never gonna sign with the Jays. Only chance they had would've been by overpaying massively. The Jays reportedly met with Anibal Sanchez, but were told it would take a 7 year deal and that he wasn't ready to sign quickly.

 

Yu Darvish or Anibal Sanchez were the ones to get…

[KingKat]

Yu Darvish or Anibal Sanchez were the ones to get…

 

Yu was such a missed opportunity. He litterally couldn't say no if the Jays were willing to pony up the money.

[TwistedLogic]

Yu was such a missed opportunity. He litterally couldn't say no if the Jays were willing to pony up the money.

 

And yet there was absolutely no precedent or past evidence to support that it was a good idea to pay a team $50M to talk to their Japanese pitcher. Sure it looks like an excellent deal in hindsight, but it hadn't ever worked out before.

 

If anyone wants to be upset with the Jays failing at capitalizing on the international market, it should be in regards to the Cuban players. The success rate of Cuban bats transitioning over to the majors has been unbelievable.

 

Cespedes, Puig, Abreu; even Castillo had a great first sip of coffee last season, while Soler is regarded as one of the better prospects in the game.

 

Darvish remains the only major bargain that has come over from Japan, and 29 other teams, not just the Blue Jays, missed out on him.

[Governator]

Darvish remains the only major bargain that has come over from Japan, and 29 other teams, not just the Blue Jays, missed out on him.

 

Ichiro is crying.

[xposbrad]

And yet there was absolutely no precedent or past evidence to support that it was a good idea to pay a team $50M to talk to their Japanese pitcher. Sure it looks like an excellent deal in hindsight, but it hadn't ever worked out before.

 

If anyone wants to be upset with the Jays failing at capitalizing on the international market, it should be in regards to the Cuban players. The success rate of Cuban bats transitioning over to the majors has been unbelievable.

 

Cespedes, Puig, Abreu; even Castillo had a great first sip of coffee last season, while Soler is regarded as one of the better prospects in the game.

 

Darvish remains the only major bargain that has come over from Japan, and 29 other teams, not just the Blue Jays, missed out on him.

 

The fact is, the Jays aren't going after any international player, Cuban or from Japan. They are missing out, and only part of the reason the Jays constantly keep missing the playoffs.

[KingKat]

And yet there was absolutely no precedent or past evidence to support that it was a good idea to pay a team $50M to talk to their Japanese pitcher. Sure it looks like an excellent deal in hindsight, but it hadn't ever worked out before.

 

If anyone wants to be upset with the Jays failing at capitalizing on the international market, it should be in regards to the Cuban players. The success rate of Cuban bats transitioning over to the majors has been unbelievable.

 

Cespedes, Puig, Abreu; even Castillo had a great first sip of coffee last season, while Soler is regarded as one of the better prospects in the game.

 

Darvish remains the only major bargain that has come over from Japan, and 29 other teams, not just the Blue Jays, missed out on him.

 

Oh I'm not criticizing the Jays for not knowing how good Yu was. I'm criticizing them because the opportunity to have an exclusive negotiation right on a major free agent was worth more to them than it was to most other teams given their difficulties attracting free agents and their supposed 5 year limit. That made it a gamble worth taking but it was unquestionably a gamble.

[TwistedLogic]

Ichiro is crying.

 

Sorry, I should have made it clear that I was only talking about pitchers. There doesn't seem to be much of a market for hitters coming over from Japan, though I have no idea why.

[ScientificReason]

And yet there was absolutely no precedent or past evidence to support that it was a good idea to pay a team $50M to talk to their Japanese pitcher. Sure it looks like an excellent deal in hindsight, but it hadn't ever worked out before.

 

If anyone wants to be upset with the Jays failing at capitalizing on the international market, it should be in regards to the Cuban players. The success rate of Cuban bats transitioning over to the majors has been unbelievable.

 

 

 

Cespedes, Puig, Abreu; even Castillo had a great first sip of coffee last season, while Soler is regarded as one of the better prospects in the game.

 

Darvish remains the only major bargain that has come over from Japan, and 29 other teams, not just the Blue Jays, missed out on him.

I keep seeing these excuses, sooner or later the jays need to be willing to take a chance and sign some player.....other teams do it and are successfull..maybe trust scouts. Id rather the team fail trying then not trying at all.

[Spanky99]

And yet there was absolutely no precedent or past evidence to support that it was a good idea to pay a team $50M to talk to their Japanese pitcher. Sure it looks like an excellent deal in hindsight, but it hadn't ever worked out before.

 

If anyone wants to be upset with the Jays failing at capitalizing on the international market, it should be in regards to the Cuban players. The success rate of Cuban bats transitioning over to the majors has been unbelievable.

 

Cespedes, Puig, Abreu; even Castillo had a great first sip of coffee last season, while Soler is regarded as one of the better prospects in the game.

 

Darvish remains the only major bargain that has come over from Japan, and 29 other teams, not just the Blue Jays, missed out on him.

 

I don't get why you're making excuses for the front office, they whiffed along with 29 other teams on Chapman and Yu, but this club needed to take that risk? Attracting FA's is obviously troublesome, along with guys in trade, this was/is the market Toronto should be Targeting, what about Tanaka/Ishikawa/Ichiro, or Maeda about to be posted among others? We've missed on a bunch of Cubans to boot. It's all hind sight now for the clubs that missed the boat, but it doesn't excuse anyone of them, this is their business, is it not?