Aaron Sanchez stud thread

[saskjayfan]

Crap. I missed the Fish moving Alvarez to the pen. Then scratch everything I said about him in this thread.

 

I hold Alvarez in high regard. I think you missed the 99 mile an hour fastball from Sanchez that the bottom dropped out of inducing a swinging strikeout. Sanchez is very sexy and next year he will be in the rotation. Alvarez is a free agent in 2018....Sanchez not till 2020.

 

I'm still waiting for these terrible mechanics that Sanchez has, that you so love to talk about, to result in terrible pitches...tick tock.

[saskjayfan]

I did miss that. I also missed his first MLB GS.

 

I've also missed the high outside ball four pitches you said he throws all the time.....

[saskjayfan]

Dunno what to tell you. Haven't been able to watch him lately, but, like I said, his location was completely different in his first MLB appearances than before (in the minors). We'll see how long he hangs on (if he has, in fact not been flying open). Relieving is agreeing with him for now. Don't fix what has been fixed with ripped duct tape, I say.

 

let me get this straight....you see almost every pitch he throws in the minors, but can't take the time to watch him in the bigs...lol......that's hilarious.

[saskjayfan]

Now you're just being silly, and a bit of an ass. What's with you folks and the exaggerative lie? Is that the only way you can attempt to "prove" a point? I've seen him pitch a number of times in the minors. I've not seen every single pitch, or nearly every single pitch, and nothing of the sort was ever suggested. There's a whole spectrum in between "watched him in a couple innings in spring training," as you suggested in another exaggerative lie, earlier on, and "saw nearly every pitch he's made." It's kind of like stating that you've claimed every pitch he's thrown has been the best pitch ever thrown. It's nonsensical. It doesn't help you. It makes you look desperate and sad. Which is what you've been throughout this entire exchange.

 

By the way, if you didn't catch the in-game commentary, he flew open tonight. So kiss my unwiped behind. His curve was an Eephus pitch. He was meat. Filthy first pitch to Cespedes (even though right down the middle). Other than that ... Ew. Rework his delivery, find command and fully develop a real third pitch and then Sanchez can start.

 

He's no Alvarez.

 

Now, go realize that substantively, you have nothing to say, and come back with another sadly concocted exaggerative lie.

 

Wow...just Wow! It was Hyperbole. You're losing your edge. Clearly I'm making fun of you. I don't actually believe you watched almost every pitch he made in the minors. I'm making fun of you because you talked about how often you had seen him in the minors, which takes great effort to do, and you talk about not seeing him make pitches in the majors which is very easy to do.

 

He flew open tonight..lol. Who said he was perfect on every single pitch. The same could be said for every single pitcher on the jays. Buck said his delivery was flawless last night..lol. You just can't give it up. You are determined to prove everything you said was correct. Why can't you just capitulate and say, he's been a better pitcher in the majors than I thought he would be. Everyone on the board has seen him pitch. He isn't walking guys, he's getting strike outs and his ground ball percentage is off the charts. Last night a seeing eye chopper got an infield hit. You get guys to induce contact like that and it will be an out more than 90% of the time. The curve to Cespedes was not great, but he hadn't thrown it till that point. If Navarro called the fastball he would have got out of the inning.

 

All you do is berate people. At least I was attempting to make fun you in a playful manner...lol. You're probably fuming mad as you read this. Chillax dude.

Edited August 26, 2014 by saskjayfan

[BigCecil]

Wow...just Wow! It was Hyperbole. You're losing your edge. Clearly I'm making fun of you. I don't actually believe you watched almost every pitch he made in the minors. I'm making fun of you because you talked about how often you had seen him in the minors, which takes great effort to do, and you talk about not seeing him make pitches in the majors which is very easy to do.

 

He flew open tonight..lol. Who said he was perfect on every single pitch. The same could be said for every single pitcher on the jays. Buck said his delivery was flawless last night..lol. You just can't give it up. You are determined to prove everything you said was correct. Why can't you just capitulate and say, he's been a better pitcher in the majors than I thought he would be. Everyone on the board has seen him pitch. He isn't walking guys, he's getting strike outs and his ground ball percentage is off the charts. Last night a seeing eye chopper got an infield hit. You get guys to induce contact like that and it will be an out more than 90% of the time. The curve to Cespedes was not great, but he hadn't thrown it till that point. If Navarro called the fastball he would have got out of the inning.

 

All you do is berate people. At least I was attempting to make fun you in a playful manner...lol. You're probably fuming mad as you read this. Chillax dude.

 

Good exchange between SJF and Moogy. The whole "debate" is moot but a fun read.

 

He has been mostly very impressive in a handful of MLB innings and we haven't seen a lot of the issues he had in the minors show up so far...time will tell the story that. Its a game of adjustments for young players.

 

I'm still raging we didn't make the run this year with the division so beat up...I'm not counting on Stro and Sanchez to get us into the post season anytime soon with a retooled AL East to face in 2015.

[saskjayfan]

I don't think you understand logic. If your comment has a basis in logic, but you take the comment to exaggerative levels, that's fine (technically not fine, but for casual purposes, it's fine ... and can be fun). If you have no point, but try to create one through exaggerative claims, it's a strawman ... and an embarrassing one, if you're self aware enough to actually be embarrassed).

 

Here, you're guilty of the latter. It doesn't take much effort at all to see a minor league starter pitch a number of times over a number of years. It just happens. They're on TV occasionally. They happen to be at a game you're at. Videos on the internet. Over time, you log views. Pretty basic. Pretty simple. Very true. Shouldn't have to be explained. Shouldn't be the attempted butt of a joke.

 

However, seeing a reliever (who, of course, never pitches on a set schedule) pitch a number of times, over the course of a few weeks, when you're out of market, is more difficult.

 

You might be trying to make fun of me, but you just look stupid.

 

 

 

You said you hadn't seen it.

 

Regardless ... again, that issue is indicative of a larger issue. It's not a typical "he missed his spot," like all pitchers do from time to time. It's a symptom of bigger issues. So that it's occurring, is important.

 

 

 

Not at all.

 

 

 

Hopefully this is another one of your jokes.

 

 

 

I'm just commenting on what I see. Why are you determined to characterize everything I say as trying to prove everything I said in the past was correct?

 

 

 

Small sample, and as a reliever. It's actually YOU who is determined to prove everything you said is correct. I'm just following normal, acceptable logic and analysis. You've been saying that he's super awesome since before you saw him. And then after an inning. Or two innings. I've stated quite clearly that he's done well since he's been up as a reliever. And that when I saw him after his call-up, he's been much more consistent in keeping the ball down in the zone. I've also stated quite clearly that it's not nearly enough to change my mind. And I analyze him as I would anyone else.

 

 

 

All you do is berate me. At least I attempt to make fun of you in a playful manner. You're probably ignorantly laughing as you read this. See how dumb that reads? Yeah, that's how stupid your comments read, as well. I've made fun of you in a playful manner as well. You just take it personal, as berating. You have no perspective. Regardless of who views Sanchez as what quality, the truth is, you've taken unreasonable illogical stances on Sanchez throughout, and I've taken reasonable logical stances (remember the portion of the sentence where I state "regardless of who views Sanchez as what quality" before you say something else stupid, though I fear even that caveat won't stop you). And then you, as the unreasonable one, attempt to mock the reasonable person for being reasonable. Hence my commentary on exaggerative lies.

 

I've never been mad reading a post. I've felt sad for people ... like you ... for instance. I've been frustrated (but in a humorous manner) ... like when I'm "upset" with myself for not being able to translate a Spanky post into English. But never mad. There's absolutely no reason to be angry. You entirely misunderstand the dynamic at play here. If you want to play the silly clown, and paint this clown persona as the legitimate one, I won't get in your way. Have at it.

 

you bring so much joy to my days moogster. I seriously owe you a beer if I ever make it the GTA.

[Candide]

http://i.imgur.com/agJIP.gif

[GNick49]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but moving to the NL lowers his raw xFIP quite a bit too. We can look at xFIP-, which is his xFIP relative to league average (set to 100). It's also park adjusted. So rather than Hendo having a massive improvement of 4.42 to 3.49, he went from 107 (to 105) to 94, which is still very good but not ridiculous or anything, he went from a bit worse than average to a bit better than average. Using xFIP- helps factor in contextual stuff like having to face pitchers for example. Again, not disagreeing with you.

Pitchers don't have to face DH in NL, but automatic out in 9th spot instead. Gets even worse if he goes to homerun hitters park, even worst would be moving to tougher division. Worse again if his walks are high or gives up few too many hits. Only way be different is if he has fluke career year or goes from pitchers park in AL to hitters park in NL. Middle relievers also don't seem to be affected as much.

[Angrioter]

Bump day

 

Aaron Sanchez

Scouting Report by Jeff Mans

Aaron Sanchez represents simultaneously the best and worst of MLB pitching prospects. On the plus side, he is a very solid athlete and has a strong upper body. Since being drafted in 2010 he has matured physically and in the process added 4-6 MPH to his fastball. That heater now registers in the 94-96 range on the regular and hits 97-99 when he pitches out of the bullpen. He throws two varieties of fastballs. His four seam fastball features cutting action that runs in to left handed hitters while his two seamer has run inside to right handed hitters. He throws with an effortless motion and disguises all of his offerings very well.

 

Sanchez’s curveball has 12-6 direction and features a sharp downward bite that induces a high amount of groundballs. Between 2013 & 2014 Sanchez had a 57% groundball rate and 2.34 GB/FB% in the minor leagues. He also throws a changeup that has the potential to be a high end pitch as well. As with his other offerings, the changeup has downward bite when right and induces plenty of groundouts.

 

The biggest issue with Aaron Sanchez is control and command of his repertoire. His 4.8 BB/9 rate was concern enough to force him to the bullpen even before joining the big league club in 2014. His off-speed pitches have great movement but if he cannot control them or show that he can get them over for strikes then they are simply ineffective. What’s more is that he tends to miss up in the zone which leads to many extra base hits including homeruns. Free passes and extra base hits are the curse of any would be big league prospect and Sanchez’s future rides on whether he can get both of these tendencies under control.

 

The Blue Jays elevated Sanchez to the big league bullpen where he made 24 appearances. He threw 33 innings of masterful ball. He was able to limit his walks to just nine while he struck out 27. His 1.09 ERA and 0.697 WHIP proved that Aaron Sanchez could indeed be a high end late inning reliever. Many think that Sanchez is the Blue Jays closer in waiting but the club is still going to explore him as a starter this spring.

 

 

2015 Analysis

One way or another Aaron Sanchez is going to make an impact in Toronto this season. How much of a fantasy impact he has comes down to whether or not the Blue Jays turn him into a reliever or stretch him out for the rotation. He has the body and arsenal to be a front of the rotation starter but has to be able to repeat his delivery and command all of his pitches. It would be a shame for him to stop throwing his breaking ball but if he is moved into the bullpen he will likely be told to just throw the fastball.

 

Because he has two distinct varieties of fastball that play well to both left and right handed hitters, he could close games as soon as opening day. The loss of Marcus Stroman however, creates a big hole in the Blue Jays rotation this year. They are going to explore all options of Sanchez in the rotation but it will all come down to whether or not he can throw strikes early in the count.

 

Sanchez is a real coachable kid that is a student of the game. He is a bit of a introvert personality wise but hasn’t had any problem with teammates or coaches on any level. His overall makeup suggests that he would be able to develop into a front line starter. Ideally that would entail another season in the minor leagues while working his control issues out and further developing his changeup. But the Blue Jays really believe that they are contenders in the AL East this season. The loss of Marcus Stroman and the ups & downs of guys like Drew Hutchison, Mark Buehrle & R.A. Dickey may force their hand on throwing Sanchez into the deep water of the big league rotation.

 

As a starter he would be nothing more than a late round upside play as a fifth or sixth starter. But if he winds up moving to the bullpen and making the Blue Jays out of spring training there is no doubt in my mind that he’ll be the full time closer by mid-late April. That is where Sanchez gains a ton of fantasy appeal and thus would be worth a mid round selection on draft day.

 

 

Compare To

Adam Wainwright – His makeup, repertoire and situation within the Blue Jays really remind me of a young Adam Wainwright. There is no telling whether he can evolve from a late innings reliever to a full blown perennial Cy Young candidate but the foundation is there.

 

Jonathan Papelbon – Minus the attitude, Sanchez and Papelbon have many of the same characteristics. Papelbon had trouble with locating his off-speed pitches also early on in his career but went on to be a two pitch masterful closer.

[King]

The "IluvBJs" Henderson Alvarez >>> Kershaw" thread

 

good memories

[Laika]

"What’s more is that he tends to miss up in the zone which leads to many extra base hits including homeruns."

He might tend to miss up in the zone, but the rest of that sentence is false.

 

Sanchez' problems are walks and singles.

[saskjayfan]

"What’s more is that he tends to miss up in the zone which leads to many extra base hits including homeruns."

He might tend to miss up in the zone, but the rest of that sentence is false.

 

Sanchez' problems are walks and singles.

 

3 walks in 13 innings this spring has to be encouraging then.

[L54]

What reduction in BB/9 would make his low SwSt% acceptable? Someone must know!

[Laika]

What reduction in BB/9 would make his low SwSt% acceptable? Someone must know!

 

There's really no answer to this. It depends what you want him to be. He could also just learn to miss more bats.

 

But, as is he probably needs to shave at least 1 BB/9 off of his projections to be a viable starter.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7738&position=P

 

That guy ^ had pretty s***** minor league peripherals too. Lucroy effect? Russ Martin effect for Sanchez hopefully?

 

If he's going to miss as few bats as Doug Fister though, then he needs to come way down. We don't really know what his SP SwStr% would be, see.

[Angrioter]

There's really no answer to this. It depends what you want him to be. He could also just learn to miss more bats.

 

But, as is he probably needs to shave at least 1 BB/9 off of his projections to be a viable starter.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7738&position=P

 

That guy ^ had pretty s***** minor league peripherals too. Lucroy effect? Russ Martin effect for Sanchez hopefully?

 

If he's going to miss as few bats as Doug Fister though, then he needs to come way down. We don't really know what his SP SwStr% would be, see.

 

Sanchez and Peralta similar results, a small difference between they both is the ability of Sanchez of think, and he's a better athlete.

[L54]

There's really no answer to this. It depends what you want him to be. He could also just learn to miss more bats.

 

But, as is he probably needs to shave at least 1 BB/9 off of his projections to be a viable starter.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7738&position=P

 

That guy ^ had pretty s***** minor league peripherals too. Lucroy effect? Russ Martin effect for Sanchez hopefully?

 

If he's going to miss as few bats as Doug Fister though, then he needs to come way down. We don't really know what his SP SwStr% would be, see.

 

Fair enough, it was a pretty open ended question.

 

Best case ontario for Sanchez is to cut walks and pray for Russ to work his magic.

[Angrioter]

Fair enough, it was a pretty open ended question.

 

Best case ontario for Sanchez is to cut walks and pray for Russ to work his magic.

 

We're paying him a lot.

 

 

Franciquito Liriano FIP

2012 - 4.34

2013 - 2.92 (Martin)

 

AJ Burnett FIP

2012 - 3.52

2013 - 2.80 (Martin)

 

Charlie Morton FIP

2012 - 4.17

2013 - 3.60 (Martin)

 

Mark Melancon FIP

2012 - 4.58

2013 - 1.64 (Martin)

 

Jason Grilli FIP

2012 - 2.80

2013 - 1.97 (Martin)

[L54]

We're paying him a lot.

 

 

Franciquito Liriano FIP

2012 - 4.34

2013 - 2.92 (Martin)

 

AJ Burnett FIP

2012 - 3.52

2013 - 2.80 (Martin)

 

Charlie Morton FIP

2012 - 4.17

2013 - 3.60 (Martin)

 

Mark Melancon FIP

2012 - 4.58

2013 - 1.64 (Martin)

 

Jason Grilli FIP

2012 - 2.80

2013 - 1.97 (Martin)

 

Other than actual games, this is what I'm most excited about for the season. Very intrigued to what kind of impact he can have.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Russell Martin .... " The Pitch Whisperer" Get R Done!

[L54]

I hope Sanchez gets traded to a team that deserves him and we get nothing in return. And I hope you guys enjoy your nothing.

 

Who would qualify as deserving him Jonn? I'm looking forward to your insight.

[Laika]

I hope Sanchez gets traded to a team that deserves him and we get nothing in return. And I hope you guys enjoy your nothing.

 

Maybe Sanchez for Ryan Howard makes sense for both teams?

[GD]

If the Phillies ate 98.9% of the contract it would be fair.

 

gif me complete failure

 

http://www.refinedguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/michigan-punter-fail-gif.gif

[Daniel Labude]

I hope Sanchez gets traded to a team that deserves him and we get nothing in return. And I hope you guys enjoy your nothing.

This season will decide his future. He will he shine (as I am expecting) or tank and go back to being a closer/bullpen piece

[CanuckofChicago]

I usually don't post, but I have been following this thread and I am just curious, why are so many posters willing to give up on someone like Sanchez? I am really dumbfounded. Instead of letting him develop, we have those who want to trade him, crap on him, or hoping he doesn't make the rotation, shouldn't we give him a chance before we relegate him to a bust and/or trade bait??

 

I truly hope he proves the naysayers wrong. I am on record as a believer in the 22 year old Sanchez and if he busts I will admit it. But I am willing to give him a chance.

[Angrioter]

Maybe Sanchez for Ryan Howard makes sense for both teams?

 

'14 Howard 23 HR, 95 RBI's >> '13 X smart 1B who just takes walks 24 HR, 73 RBI's

[BTS]

People keep posting about everyone 'giving up' on Sanchez. What does this even mean? The biggest pessimists on the forum as far as Sanchez is concerned are skeptical that his skill set will translate well to the rotation, and would prefer he work on a 3rd pitch and hopefully dominate at AAA, or get traded if some other GM values him higher than some of his red flags dictate that maybe he should. Nobody is saying that he should be discarded.

[Angrioter]

I usually don't post, but I have been following this thread and I am just curious, why are so many posters willing to give up on someone like Sanchez? I am really dumbfounded. Instead of letting him develop, we have those who want to trade him, crap on him, or hoping he doesn't make the rotation, shouldn't we give him a chance before we relegate him to a bust and/or trade bait??

 

I truly hope he proves the naysayers wrong. I am on record as a believer in the 22 year old Sanchez and if he busts I will admit it. But I am willing to give him a chance.

Mr Sanchez, calm down, your son is still young and he'll be fine in the minors correcting the lack of command of the easiest pitching to throw in baseball!!

 

Dominican joke. Welcome buddy!!

[BTS]

But Sanchez is just a reliever right. You don't think Ryan Howard for free is a fair return? Atleast Howard will get more swings and misses!

 

your dumn

[HERPDERP]

I usually don't post, but I have been following this thread and I am just curious, why are so many posters willing to give up on someone like Sanchez? I am really dumbfounded. Instead of letting him develop, we have those who want to trade him, crap on him, or hoping he doesn't make the rotation, shouldn't we give him a chance before we relegate him to a bust and/or trade bait??

 

I truly hope he proves the naysayers wrong. I am on record as a believer in the 22 year old Sanchez and if he busts I will admit it. But I am willing to give him a chance.

 

No one is giving up on him..I just think his stock has fallen.

 

But it's not because Sanchez has pitched terribly - it's the opposite. The other prospects on this team have shown a lot more development and stuff to the point that Sanchez is no longer untouchable.

 

I'm a lot more excited about the Mexican and the Castro because they both have shown excellent stuff and control.

 

Sanchez has good stuff. But it's not sexy. He has a high 90s fastball just like Castro and the Mexican, but unlike those two, Sanchez' stuff doesn't generate enough swinging strikes. And to make matters worse, Sanchez hasn't exactly improved on his control and command. A lack of control and command and stuff to K people out isn't encouraging.

 

Swinging strikes are not the be-all-end-all, but they are extremely helpful for a pitcher that can generate the K when needed. And they are especially important for relievers, who are often brought in for situations where a hold is required.

 

Sanchez needs more development of his off-speed pitches and control. The great thing is he's still young, so there is more than enough time for him to develop. But sticking him in the bullpen reduces the necessary reps and experiences that can help him if he were in the Buffalo rotation.

[saskjayfan]

I don't think anyone is giving up on him. A lot of us think his trade value is more than his actual future value. We also don't think he is ready to provide quality innings as a starter. No one is saying he can't develop further or that he is a bust. We'd just rather not give him a chance when there are better options. Don't want to hurt the team at the expense of "giving a guy a chance". He needs to develop more in the minors.

 

so the herd believes Estrada and Hendricks are "better" options. I'm glad I'm not part of the herd.

 

I'm curious as to why you think he has more trade value than actual future value? You're assuming a professional GM can't evaluate his future value and will overpay for him.