Aaron Sanchez stud thread

[Angrioter]

I don't think Thole is by choice

 

Are you Thole bastard brother?

[BTS]

so you're saying that baseball professionals should never make mistakes? How about Bautista, EE? How about giving Stroman a shot before most thought they should. Goins was given a shot because there was nothing much better behind him, and he proved he could even worse than the crap that was behind him. Thames was given a shot when Snider clearly wasn't ready and maybe his time in the minors actually benefited him! Moises was never anything more than a 4th outfielder and he's had a decent spring for KC so far...lol.

 

No. I'm saying that this FO has done nothing at all to warrant your stance of "If the team says a player is ready, I trust them enough to ignore evidence suggesting that he isn't". This FO has a long track record of neglecting to round the 25-man out with quality talent, and as a result has been forced to give their league-min AAA talent roster spots to start the year. We've seen this story before.

 

Consideration of Sanchez's results to date tells me (and a lot of other people) that Sanchez probably isn't going to be successful in the rotation this year. The FO's track record isn't such that their endorsement makes me reconsider my stance.

[Atothe]

BTS derosa did well?

[BTS]

BTS derosa did well?

 

Actually, now that I check he sucked too lol. Awful defense and a league-average bat.

[Atothe]

Actually, now that I check he sucked too lol. Awful defense and a league-average bat.

 

I'm indifferent about Sanchez right now. Hopefully it ends but I don't wanna bother see-sawing back and forth anymore

[Laika]

Actually, now that I check he sucked too lol. Awful defense and a league-average bat.

 

The DeRosa signing was f***ing mental. They talked a 38 year old coming off of three consecutive sub replacement level seasons out of retirement because they needed more glue in the clubhouse.... lol

[BTS]

The DeRosa signing was f***ing mental. They talked a 38 year old coming off of three consecutive sub replacement level seasons out of retirement because they needed more glue in the clubhouse.... lol

 

IIRC it was the season immediately after they did the same thing with Vizquel, who was a disaster on the field and a clubhouse distraction, which makes it worse.

[Stangstag]

The DeRosa signing was f***ing mental. They talked a 38 year old coming off of three consecutive sub replacement level seasons out of retirement because they needed more glue in the clubhouse.... lol

 

At least this year AA decided to go after "clubhouse guys" that actually have talent. Martin and Donaldson are f***ing amazing

[theblujay]

Unlike BTS Im not gonna compare Sanchez to Goins and Sierra. Let's see what the kid can do in the rotation this year. I'll take him over Hendricks or Estrada everyday

[CHRIS]

Let's say he IS going to be a stud for arguments sake. I'm sure we can all agree he is not there yet. Why trade a future year of a stud for a year of a below average SP?

 

Because the current year is more important than the future year.

If Sanchez is a better option than Estrada and Hendricks right now, I would go with Sanchez and worry about six years from now, six years from now.

[Angrioter]

Unlike BTS Im not gonna compare Sanchez to Goins and Sierra. Let's see what the kid can do in the rotation this year. I'll take him over Hendricks or Estrada everyday

 

Sanchez isn't a finished product.

Unable to throw his fastball for strikes, and the team is teaching him how to throw a new pitch at MLB level.

[Governator]

Sanchez isn't a finished product.

Unable to throw his fastball for strikes, and the team is teaching him how to throw a new pitch at MLB level.

 

You say that as if once you reach the MLB level you can't grow any further and develop any new pitches.

[Angrioter]

You say that as if once you reach the MLB level you can't grow any further and develop any new pitches.

 

If Sanchez can't throw the easier pitch for strikes (Fastball), how do you think he can learn a new one?

[Governator]

If Sanchez can't throw the easier pitch for strikes (Fastball), how do you think he can learn a new one?

 

It's ok, they were just competitive walks

[Brownie19]

If Sanchez can't throw the easier pitch for strikes (Fastball), how do you think he can learn a new one?

 

Commanding your fastball and learning a new pitch seem like mutually exclusive events to me. I assume you mean if he's too stupid to learn how to throw strikes, he must be too stupid to learn how to hold a different grip on the ball? I think you meant to say he should be focusing his efforts on improving his fastball command/control.

 

That said - wasn't the fact that he threw basically all fastballs in the majors the reason why he didn't walk as many as he did in the minors?

[Brownie19]

Sanchez isn't a finished product.

Unable to throw his fastball for strikes, and the team is teaching him how to throw a new pitch at MLB level.

 

Danny Norris walked about 4 per 9 innings last year too....He isn't close to being a finished product either. Why don't we rip on him some more? because living in a hippy van makes him cool and likeable?

[Angrioter]

Danny Norris walked about 4 per 9 innings last year too....He isn't close to being a finished product either. Why don't we rip on him some more? because living in a hippy van makes him cool and likeable?

 

Throwing 2 plus pitches + one above average pitch.

[KingKat]

Danny Norris walked about 4 per 9 innings last year too....He isn't close to being a finished product either. Why don't we rip on him some more? because living in a hippy van makes him cool and likeable?

 

He only walked 3.1 actually which for Sanchez would be a career best. If you're defense of Sanchez is that Norris is bad too then it's not much of a defense because Sanchez is clearly worse.

[King]

Danny Norris walked about 4 per 9 innings last year too....He isn't close to being a finished product either. Why don't we rip on him some more? because living in a hippy van makes him cool and likeable?

 

Daniel Norris has shown the ability to strike batters out

[Angrioter]

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2015/3/27/8287495/aaron-sanchez-strikethrower

"The best proxy for strikethrowing is Zone%, which happily is available on leaderboards (under plate discipline) at Fangraphs, making it easy to see how Sanchez stacked up and to evaluate Anthopoulos' claim. The league average Zone% for relievers was 45%, at 41.9% Sanchez ranked 168th of 209 relievers with 30 relief IP in 204. That puts Sanchez at the 20th percentile, roughly a standard deviation below average (assuming a roughly normal distribution). Not exactly what one would expect of a bona fida strikethrower."

[Governator]

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2015/3/27/8287495/aaron-sanchez-strikethrower

"The best proxy for strikethrowing is Zone%, which happily is available on leaderboards (under plate discipline) at Fangraphs, making it easy to see how Sanchez stacked up and to evaluate Anthopoulos' claim. The league average Zone% for relievers was 45%, at 41.9% Sanchez ranked 168th of 209 relievers with 30 relief IP in 204. That puts Sanchez at the 20th percentile, roughly a standard deviation below average (assuming a roughly normal distribution). Not exactly what one would expect of a bona fida strikethrower."

 

Next paragraph

 

In general, the data from these two sources is very consistent, though not exactly the same. For Zone%, FanGraphs' PITCHf/x data records about 3-4% more pitches in the strike zone, a difference that holds up over time and for most players. But not Sanchez. His PITCH f/x Zone% was 51.6%, almost 10% higher than BIS reported. With a 2014 the league average for reliever Zone% of 48.5%, Sanchez ranked 51st of 209, or at the 75th percentile. This would indicate he was indeed filling up the strike zone.

 

Keep reaching.

[NorthOf49]

Zone% correlates very poorly with actual walk rate. F-Strike% is better and more predictive.

[BTS]

F-Strike is dumb.

 

Thank you. Maybe North will stop with this ********.

[Angrioter]

F-Strike% don't say anything about command, control or stuff.

 

Some pitchers, depend of the batter, begin the sequence with a pitch out of the zone on purpose.

[BTS]

Why is it dumb? It's a stat that shouldn't be used solely to evaluate a player but there's nothing wrong with it.

 

To me it's akin to saying f-out% is strongly associated with the amount of runs given up in an inning. Of course it is. But a pitcher with a high f-out percentage is going go have a set of skills that given him an equally high second and third out percentage. Similarly, a pitcher that gets a lot of first pitch strikes has a skill set that likely allows him to get a lot of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th pitch strikes. The skill set is of interest.

 

Mostly, I'm annoyed because North said John lackey was fantastic as a Cardinal because he had a high F-strike %.

[NorthOf49]

F-Strike% don't say anything about command, control or stuff.

 

Some pitchers, depend of the batter, begin the sequence with a pitch out of the zone on purpose.

They really don't though. Pitchers almost always try to throw a strike on the first pitch. Pitchers throw strikes out of the zone on purpose on a great deal of other pitches.

 

http://i.imgur.com/sAISjC5.png

 

It clearly means something about a pitcher going forward.

 

Similarly, a pitcher that gets a lot of first pitch strikes has a skill set that likely allows him to get a lot of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th pitch strikes. The skill set is of interest.

Exactly! That's why the stat works. Pitchers who get first strikes are able to get further strikes. Pitchers aren't good because they get first strikes, first strikes are a sign of a pitcher with a good control profile.

[BTS]

It doesn't isolate the pitcher's skill. First pitch strikes are often called, which the catcher has a great impact on. First pitch strikes also include balls in play, and hittable (GB) pitchers generally don't walk people.

 

Not saying i like Zone% either, but I would never use F-Strike for anything,

 

This, and BB rate stabilizes at like 50 IP anyway.

[NorthOf49]

It doesn't isolate the pitcher's skill. First pitch strikes are often called, which the catcher has a great impact on. First pitch strikes also include balls in play, and hittable (GB) pitchers generally don't walk people.

 

Not saying i like Zone% either, but I would never use F-Strike for anything,

So you're saying there are better ways to evaluate a pitcher's control. That's fair.

[Angrioter]

It doesn't isolate the pitcher's skill. First pitch strikes are often called, which the catcher has a great impact on. First pitch strikes also include balls in play, and hittable (GB) pitchers generally don't walk people.

 

Not saying i like Zone% either, but I would never use F-Strike for anything,

 

That's what I mean.

 

Kevin Slowey 2014

F-Strike - 71%

O-Swing - 76.6%

 

No matter that the pitch is out of the zone, Slowey's pitches are hittable and for that reason hitters swing to his first pitch.

[TheHurl]

IIRC it was the season immediately after they did the same thing with Vizquel, who was a disaster on the field and a clubhouse distraction, which makes it worse.

 

Like to point out that they essentially cut Valbuena for Vizquel