Aaron Sanchez stud thread

[Iluvbjs]

You embarrassed yourself beyond words and are now resorting to insults as a defence tactic. Good for you.

 

Yeah ok buddy!!!! You're my hero!! Before his last start, 12 of his last 13 starts, he allowed 2ER or less. Over 150 innings pitched, he has an ERA of 2.5, ranking him FIFTH in the national league. He has more shutouts than anyone in the top 10. He's induced the second most double plays. Now he does rank below most in his quality start percentage, but I think that will get better with experience. The fact that his numbers are still near the top, speak volumes considering his ERA inflates drastically with the few bad starts he has had, more than anyone else.

 

He's made 2 starts less that Wainwright, who is one of the premiere pitchers in baseball. His ERA is 2.57 vs. 2.52 for Adam. His k to BB rate is inferior to only Clayton and Grienke. I don't see anything in his numbers that wouldn't rank him as one of the best performing pitchers in the NL this year.

[abola2121]

For sure, he's not a finished product by any means. He should start next year at AA.

 

Why AA?

[Chappy]

yeah ok buddy!!!! You're my hero!! Before his last start, 12 of his last 13 starts, he allowed 2er or less. Over 150 innings pitched, he has an era of 2.5, ranking him fifth in the national league. He has more shutouts than anyone in the top 10. He's induced the second most double plays. Now he does rank below most in his quality start percentage, but i think that will get better with experience. The fact that his numbers are still near the top, speak volumes considering his era inflates drastically with the few bad starts he has had, more than anyone else.

 

He's made 2 starts less that wainwright, who is one of the premiere pitchers in baseball. His era is 2.57 vs. 2.52 for adam. His k to bb rate is inferior to only clayton and grienke. I don't see anything in his numbers that wouldn't rank him as one of the best performing pitchers in the nl this year.

 

omg.

[Vincent]

It seems to me Sanchez belongs in the bullpen. I imagine they'll try him as a starter, it will fail and he'll be back in the bullpen. Seems he could be the 2015 closer.

[BTS]

Yeah ok buddy!!!! You're my hero!! Before his last start' date=' 12 of his last 13 starts, he allowed 2ER or less. Over 150 innings pitched, he has an ERA of 2.5, ranking him FIFTH in the national league. He has more shutouts than anyone in the top 10. [b']He's induced the second most double plays[/b]. Now he does rank below most in his quality start percentage, but I think that will get better with experience. The fact that his numbers are still near the top, speak volumes considering his ERA inflates drastically with the few bad starts he has had, more than anyone else.

 

He's made 2 starts less that Wainwright, who is one of the premiere pitchers in baseball. His ERA is 2.57 vs. 2.52 for Adam. His k to BB rate is inferior to only Clayton and Grienke. I don't see anything in his numbers that wouldn't rank him as one of the best performing pitchers in the NL this year.

 

Not touching the rest of this mess, but bolded is a pet peeve of mine. Bad pitchers tend to induce a lot of double plays because they have a lot of baserunners, and the ball is put in play often.

[ElNik2013]

Why AA?

 

 

Because he didnt graduate that level. Start him at AAA then, no big deal, he's already been promoted twice without earning it, so whatever.

[Chappy]

Case closed? Have you seen Stromans home/road splits?

 

Alvarez has been the better pitcher this season. It's not close.

 

You mean where Stroman pitches in a hitters park and has done exceedingly well, compared to Alvarez who has been crushed beyond words outside of his pitchers paradise home field?

[Orgfiller]

Believe it or not how many runs a pitcher lets score is important.

 

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-41349-jonah-hill-oscars-cut-it-out-g-w5Tc.gif

[Chappy]

Not touching the rest of this mess, but bolded is a pet peeve of mine. Bad pitchers tend to induce a lot of double plays because they have a lot of baserunners, and the ball is put in play often.

 

Dude, ERA and double plays FTW.

[Iluvbjs]

Can you explain why or how he has been better than Stroman? I'm curious.

 

It's easy. Has Stroman been anywhere near as dominant consistently? Like 12 of 13 starts with 2 ER or lees? with an ERA of 2.57 the fifth best in the league, over 24 starts? Almost all of his numbers rival anyone else except Kershaw's. Where's Stroman's 3 shutouts? Stroman has an ERA over 4.....and don't give me any bs about it being inflated over a few bad starts, cos Henderson has had four starts of giving up 5 plus runs as well. Henderson has given up 43 ER over 150 IP and Stroman 42 over 90 IP. Come on already.

[Orgfiller]

Ok guys, he's only using ERA now, nothing to see here, just keep the thread moving.

[Jimcanuck]

It's easy. Has Stroman been anywhere near as dominant consistently? Like 12 of 13 starts with 2 ER or lees? with an ERA of 2.57 the fifth best in the league' date=' over 24 starts? Almost all of his numbers rival anyone else except Kershaw's. Where's Stroman's 3 shutouts? Stroman has an ERA over 4.....and don't give me any bs about it being inflated over a few bad starts, cos Henderson has had four starts of giving up 5 plus runs as well. Henderson has given up 43 ER over 150 IP and Stroman 42 over 90 IP. Come on already.[/quote']

 

you might be able to successfully argue Alvarez over Stroman, even taking park factors and DH rule into effect, but your credibility has been shot by comparing Alvarez to Kershaw...

[Iluvbjs]

Also, not sure where you are getting your stats, but Stroman is a 1.2 WAR and Alvarez a 3.8. I'm still waiting to see what it is about my argument or what it is about the stats that is so "ridiculous.

[Iluvbjs]

you might be able to successfully argue Alvarez over Stroman, even taking park factors and DH rule into effect, but your credibility has been shot by comparing Alvarez to Kershaw...

 

When did I compare Alvarez to Kershaw? I said his numbers rival just about anyone's, except Kershaw. So I don't know wtf you're talking about. I said if it weren't for Kershaw, he's get some serious consideration and that he'd still get some regardless. Did I say anywhere it was going to be close or even a remotely tough decision? No, I did not. And comparing Stromans numbers to Alvarez's this year is utterly f***ing stupid and ridiculous. They're not even comparable and not even close.

 

Alvarez has given up the same amount of ER in SIXTY more innings pitched. That's almost SEVEN complete games. SEVEN. War of 1.2 compared to 3.8. Era of 2.57, ranking fith best in the NL over nearly a COMPLETE season to an ERA over 4. Projected walks are less. Alvarez has 3 complete game shutouts, Stroman? Alvarez has already a no hitter to his credit. Jesus, the numbers go on and on. Projected, Stroman will have walked more men. Alvarez has thrown the second most double play balls in the NL. LOL, yeah, Stroman is easily comparable to Alvarez. Make laugh out loud. Thanks for that one.

[Iluvbjs]

In less IP, Alvarez has induced more ground balls than anyone in the top 5 by a long shot. He is FIRST in the top ten in pitches per plate appearance and in pitches per inning pitched, is second only to Kershaw with 13.9 to 13.6 for Clayton. But don't get carried away and start telling me I'm saying Alvarez is the better pitcher based on that one stat now! I made a single comparison so don't get your panties in a bunch!

 

His expanded pitching stats all the way down the line are extremely impressive and if you look at them, rivals anyone in the top 5 except Kershaw, who is miles above the rest.

[saskjayfan]

Because he didnt graduate that level. Start him at AAA then, no big deal, he's already been promoted twice without earning it, so whatever.

 

so by dominating the MLB level he now deserves a demotion..lol. Great logic. Minor leagues are about improving your mechanics and becoming a player...results do not matter. If he didn't deserve to be in the MLB his MLB performances would be terrible.

[Iluvbjs]

Say what you want but you're hanging your hat on WAR. Which didn't even take a pitchers defensive ability into account until very recently so............

 

Alvarez-3.8 WAR

Stroman-1.2 WAR

 

No argument there, not even close. The numbers I put out there, suggest Alvarez is far superior right now. He throws over 3 full pitches lees per inning, which over a 7 inning performance is an average of 21 pitches. Alvarez will be in the game longer almost every time. They've allowed the same amount of earned runs, with alvarez having pitched 60 innings more. Alvarez leads the NL in Shutouts and is second in inducing DP ground balls, with about 20 less IP than the rest of the top 10.

 

Alvarez also has a slightly higher K to BB rate, while not being a strikeout pitcher like Stro is. I think that says a lot when you've got a guy who is tops in the league in DP ground balls and he STILL has the higherK/BB rate. Sorry, but it's no contest here. I want the guy who throws way less pitches to get where he needs to be. Not to mention that I'd much rather the guy who leads the league in complete game shut outs, who also has a no hitter under his belt.

 

So it goes a lot deeper than just ERA. Alvarez is better in many of the most important categories, not only over Stro, but over the top ten aside from Kershaw in the enire NL.

[OtisNixonFan]

Alvarez-3.8 WAR

Stroman-1.2 WAR

 

No argument there, not even close. The numbers I put out there, suggest Alvarez is far superior right now. He throws over 3 full pitches lees per inning, which over a 7 inning performance is an average of 21 pitches. Alvarez will be in the game longer almost every time. They've allowed the same amount of earned runs, with alvarez having pitched 60 innings more. Alvarez leads the NL in Shutouts and is second in inducing DP ground balls, with about 20 less IP than the rest of the top 10.

 

Alvarez also has a slightly higher K to BB rate, while not being a strikeout pitcher like Stro is. I think that says a lot when you've got a guy who is tops in the league in DP ground balls and he STILL has the higherK/BB rate. Sorry, but it's no contest here. I want the guy who throws way less pitches to get where he needs to be. Not to mention that I'd much rather the guy who leads the league in complete game shut outs, who also has a no hitter under his belt.

 

So it goes a lot deeper than just ERA. Alvarez is better in many of the most important categories, not only over Stro, but over the top ten aside from Kershaw in the enire NL.

Make like Robin Williams.

[Iluvbjs]

Make like Robin Williams.

 

Real classy assface. Show some respect for the dead you f***ing moron, especially from a guy suffering from obvious mental illness. Dumb f***ing ****.

[theblujay]

Uh how many runs the pitcher allows is 50% of the entire game

 

Bait bait bait

[Sparky12]

Really hopeful Sanchez makes the starting 5 next year, way to much talent to waste in the pen, however it's worked out well for him this year

[Iluvbjs]

Uh how many runs the pitcher allows is 50% of the entire game

 

Don't even bother, most of these people when they get all fanboy over one guy, can't accept that they are wrong, even when the numbers are shoved right in their faces. I put enough of them out there to prove them all wrong, so they can go check the expanded stats for themselves. Fact is Alvarez has over TRIPLE the WAR, throws way less pitches to get the job done, throws more shutouts, more DP GB's and has an ERA a full run and a half lower, ranking him fifth in the NL at 2.57 which is stellar. Especially if you look at his expanded stats next to Wainwright's, they're pretty f***ing impressive. And Wainwright is a genuine f***ing stud that any team would give their left nut to have. I'm noit saying Alvarez is half the pitcher Wainright is. But their stats say that over THIS season alone, they're pretty damn close.

[Iluvbjs]

Really hopeful Sanchez makes the starting 5 next year, way to much talent to waste in the pen, however it's worked out well for him this year

 

They have to put Aaron in the rotation next year. I think they're aiming to have Norris there too. Let the 4 youngsters have their growing pains now, so we can have them at their best a few years from now.

[theblujay]

Don't even bother' date=' most of these people when they get all fanboy over one guy, can't accept that they are wrong, even when the numbers are shoved right in their faces. I put enough of them out there to prove them all wrong, so they can go check the expanded stats for themselves. Fact is Alvarez has over TRIPLE the WAR, throws way less pitches to get the job done, throws more shutouts, more DP GB's and has an ERA a full run and a half lower, ranking him fifth in the NL at 2.57 which is stellar. Especially if you look at his expanded stats next to Wainwright's, they're pretty f***ing impressive. And Wainwright is a genuine f***ing stud that any team would give their left nut to have. I'm noit saying Alvarez is half the pitcher Wainright is. But their stats say that over THIS season alone, they're pretty damn close.[/quote']

I'm a big Alvarez fan but I'm not gonna get caught up in the Wainwright comparison lol.

 

But I do hate when these advanced stat guys go all bat s*** crazy when someone mentions the actual outcome of the game.

[BTS]

When did I compare Alvarez to Kershaw? I said his numbers rival just about anyone's, except Kershaw. So I don't know wtf you're talking about. I said if it weren't for Kershaw, he's get some serious consideration and that he'd still get some regardless. Did I say anywhere it was going to be close or even a remotely tough decision? No, I did not. And comparing Stromans numbers to Alvarez's this year is utterly f***ing stupid and ridiculous. They're not even comparable and not even close.

 

Alvarez has given up the same amount of ER in SIXTY more innings pitched. That's almost SEVEN complete games. SEVEN. War of 1.2 compared to 3.8. Era of 2.57, ranking fith best in the NL over nearly a COMPLETE season to an ERA over 4. Projected walks are less. Alvarez has 3 complete game shutouts, Stroman? Alvarez has already a no hitter to his credit. Jesus, the numbers go on and on. Projected, Stroman will have walked more men. Alvarez has thrown the second most double play balls in the NL. LOL, yeah, Stroman is easily comparable to Alvarez. Make laugh out loud. Thanks for that one.

 

What it comes down to is how you want to evaluate pitching. The people you're arguing with are looking at the outcomes that a pitcher can control: strikeouts, walks, ground balls. By that metric, Alvarez has been pretty good: a true-talent 3.4-3.5 ERA guy helped out by a very favourable home park. What you're doing is crediting him for things our of his control: defense, favourable clustering of events, favourable home aprk etc.. He probably hasn't actually done anything himself to contribute the ERA that is so much lower than his FIP or xFIP, so people aren't really inclined to evaluate his performance as though it should have yielded an ERA well under 3.

 

The argument is kind of silly, in that neither side is going to agree and you're going to go in circles. I think everyone can agree that Alvarez has been good. At least league average, and probably better.

[thatoneguy]

I think Stroman has been getting the s*** kicked out of him lately, and is a glorified reliever at this point. But, hey, he had some gaudy K numbers in June, and one or two of those innumerable hits he's giving up wasn't even hit hard, so he's a f***ing beast. Not to mention, after recently getting beaten like a rented mule through 0.1 innings, he logged a K before departing, so he xFIP'ed you out real good there. That unlucky bastard. He just got unlucky and all, before he finally logged that K. Dude is f***ing hittable as s*** right now, irrespective of his straight ability to K (which has also gone in the shitter).

 

Lol, he has had two crappy starts after a 9 inning gem against Detroit that allowed the Jays to win in extra innings. Any young pitcher has stretches like this, the kid has good stuff and is there is rightful hope for his future. Your sample size is flawed.

 

Are you even a Blue Jays fan or are you just hellbent on pissing people off who actually think these guys might work out?

[Atothe]

Lol, he has had two crappy starts after a 9 inning gem against Detroit that allowed the Jays to win in extra innings. Any young pitcher has stretches like this, the kid has good stuff and is there is rightful hope for his future. Your sample size is flawed.

 

Are you even a Blue Jays fan or are you just hellbent on pissing people off who actually think these guys might work out?

 

If you agreed with him, he would change his point of view just to argue with you.

[saskjayfan]

First, "are you even a Blue Jays fan" is akin to "do you even lift bro?" in the world of sorry responses. And much of the Hive that posts here are self-admittedly NOT Blue Jays fans. Second, before that 9 inning gem, he couldn't record an out in the 4th inning, before being lifted. No, "any young pitcher" doesn't have stretches like this. 3 just terrible performances, two of which were reliever innings (and one of which just crossed that threshold). Of his 15 starts, 4 saw him pulled before finishing the 4th inning, all because of "performance/pitch count" reasons. Compare Alvarez, who is just a year older, and who has failed to make it out of the 4th just twice this year (in 9 more starts) - once in his first start of the season, the other time because he took a liner off the leg. And Stroman isn't being spoken of as just "any young pitcher," regardless. "Any young pitcher" isn't heart throb "I'll post him in my avatar" level.

 

Old Aaron Sanchez is a true stud though...right moogster!

[saskjayfan]

He'll make a fabulous reliever until he falls apart.

 

I heard Sanchez read the bluejays message board and before every pitch he delivers he mutters f*** you moogy!

[saskjayfan]

Uh, what the what? That was the discussion, that I didn't begin, but just responded to. Ask them, not me.

 

I agree...comparing alvarez and stroman's 2014 season is dumn