We need a 3B more than anything else

[sh3156]

The Red Sox arent that far off payroll wise compared to the jays? Where are you getting your info?

 

This year. This year. Don't expect that in future years not with their TV money.

[shortstop]

AA, if you're reading these posts, the general theme here is: DO SOMETHING QUICK!

[sh3156]

@spanky

 

Don't think AA has a choice. If he wants to keep his job he is going to have to go for it

 

Otherwise if this team regresses and is in 4th place next year he can say goodbye to his job.

 

I hope he sees the light, which is going for it right here right now

[KingKat]

I know he's not a right fielder, not ideal I guess but as a stopgap move until someone returns it's worth testing the waters. At this very moment his bat is worth the risk.

 

I would have Reimold in RF against LHP and Bautista at 1B and Reimold in RF against RHP.

 

RHP/LHP

C Navarro / Kratz

1B Johnson / Bautista

2B Kawasaki

SS Reyes

3B Francisco / Tolleson

CF Ramus / Mastro

LF Melky

RF Bautista / Reimold

DH Reimold / Navarro

 

If you move Bautista to 3B, all you really gain offensively is the option to use Tolleson's bat at 2B against LHP. The defensive gain seems negligable since Bautista's terrible range at 3B has probably only gotten worse. The fielding percentage is a red herring, he's a lousy 3B.

[Deadpool]

Eeeewwww, no we don't, Lawrie's our 3rd baseman, we're pretty much f***ed with the rash of injuries, I understand Lawrie can play 2nd, but irrationally looking for a 3rd baseman now would be a fools errand. I'd rather be looking for a 2nd baseman for the future. If we can tread water and stay close(highly doubt it), good for them, and you'd be getting your corners back from injury. I really hope AA doesn't do anything in haste.

 

That's all well and good Spank, but where do we find this 2nd baseman of the future? The fact is that there are more upgrades available at 3rd than there are at second, and Lawrie has shown that he can be a more than capable defender at either position, so I'm taking the best player and 2nd or 3rd (or short if Reyes can be reasoned with and make his absolutely required move to second base...).

[sh3156]

@kingkat def agree with then lineup put up. I really wish pillar was up here instead of Mastro though.

[Governator]

I would have Reimold in RF against LHP and Bautista at 1B and Reimold in RF against RHP.

 

RHP/LHP

C Navarro / Kratz

1B Johnson / Bautista

2B Kawasaki

SS Reyes

3B Francisco / Tolleson

CF Ramus / Mastro

LF Melky

RF Bautista / Reimold

DH Reimold / Navarro

 

If you move Bautista to 3B, all you really gain offensively is the option to use Tolleson's bat at 2B against LHP. The defensive gain seems negligable since Bautista's terrible range at 3B has probably only gotten worse. The fielding percentage is a red herring, he's a lousy 3B.

 

 

Fair, however the point of the post was to get Francisco off the field so my simple minded suggestion was to call up Johnson for the bat and move Bautista over. I think that is a stronger infield than Bautista at 1st and Francisco at 3rd. You can still split Reimold's RF duties with the below:

 

RHP/LHP

C Navarro / Kratz

1B Johnson

2B Kawasaki

SS Reyes

3B Bautista / Tolleson

CF Rasmus / Mastro

LF Melky

RF Reimold / Bautista

DH Francisco / Reimold

[KingKat]

Where's Reimold against RHP? His splits are pretty much cut down the middle, our bats have been the problem of late, slim pickings though, like I said, we're in shambles.

 

He's at DH. Like he's litteraly there in my post.

[KingKat]

Fair, however the point of the post was to get Francisco off the field so my simple minded suggestion was to call up Johnson for the bat and move Bautista over. I think that is a stronger infield than Bautista at 1st and Francisco at 3rd. You can still split Reimold's RF duties with the below:

 

RHP/LHP

C Navarro / Kratz

1B Johnson

2B Kawasaki

SS Reyes

3B Bautista / Tolleson

CF Rasmus / Mastro

LF Melky

RF Reimold / Bautista

DH Francisco / Reimold

 

Offensively, the difference with your lineup and mine is that you have Johnson everyday instead of Navarro. Everything else is the same, just in different positions. You lose a bit offensively but you do accomplish your stated goal of not having Francisco play any 3B. I like my lineups more (obviously) and more importantly, I don't think the Jays will see enough benefit to yours to justify moving Bautista to a position he has offered to play but is well known to not enjoy playing.

[sh3156]

Ben Zobrist would look very good in that lineup

[Governator]

Offensively, the difference with your lineup and mine is that you have Johnson everyday instead of Navarro. Everything else is the same, just in different positions. You lose a bit offensively but you do accomplish your stated goal of not having Francisco play any 3B. I like my lineups more (obviously) and more importantly, I don't think the Jays will see enough benefit to yours to justify moving Bautista to a position he has offered to play but is well known to not enjoy playing.

 

Honestly, I think many under value Johnson. He just doesn't get too many chances in the bigs as a first basemen but his 10 year AAA OPS of over .900 is something to give him more at bats with. His last stint in the bigs was in 2012 where he only played in 14 games (what were asking from him now) and he belted a 1.367 OPS during that time.

 

He also walks more than he strikes out.

[KingKat]

Honestly, I think many under value Johnson. He just doesn't get too many chances in the bigs as a first basemen but his 10 year AAA OPS of over .900 is something to give him more at bats with. His last stint in the bigs was in 2012 where he only played in 14 games (what were asking from him now) and he belted a 1.367 OPS during that time.

 

He also walks more than he strikes out.

 

I think the reason people underrate that AAA sample is that he has a 1556 pa MLB sample of sub 800 OPS over 8 years. You usually stop looking at AAA numbers when someone has that kind of body of work but I do understand what you're saying though. You feel like the MLB sample's value is diminished because the playing time is sporadic and that he might do more if he just played every day. I honestly don't know if that belief is justified or not. I certainly understand the rationale. Gibbons is pretty committed to his platoons though so I think Johnson will have to show a lot to get everyday work. Lind was putting up a great slash line this season and many of the right-handed bats the Jays have used this season were/are hot garbage and Gibby still stuck to his guns.

[BigCecil]

I agree, but it's still no guarantee we even make the playoffs even if we get a Beltre. Can you imagine this board if we gave up a Norris, and then not made it? All I'm saying is, I'm glad I'm not AA for more reasons than one.

 

Kgm I respect your opinion but take a look at the AL east. All of the other teams have better prospects and better controllable pieces going forward. Sorry but its true.

 

Not to mention the bottomless pockets. How long do you think the Yankees and redsox mediocrity will last? I bet they are both 90+ wins team.next year.

 

Its either going for it this year or assuring 3rd and 4th place for the next 5 years. If you enjoyed the last five years and want five more years of that then good for you

 

Id rather jays take their shot this year for 1st and I'll be okay with watching a last place team for the next five years. As far as I am concerned there is no difference between a third place team and a last place team since neither really competes

 

I agree with you...the call that has to be made if are we completely screwed now anyway with the rash of injuries, which increases the risk that moving assets wouldn't bring success anyway. I don't know the answer but it doesn't look good right now.

[BigCecil]

I agree, but it's still no guarantee we even make the playoffs even if we get a Beltre. Can you imagine this board if we gave up a Norris, and then not made it? All I'm saying is, I'm glad I'm not AA for more reasons than one.

 

This worries me, he should've adressed 2nd over the winter. Only a f***ing idiot would use Ryan "f***IN" Goins in an all in year! So now we overpay to miss the playoffs? Dumn.

 

True...to be sure...but whats done is done.

[G-Snarls]

This is the weakest I've ever seen the AL East, and it would be a huge disappointment if the Jays missed out on the postseason this year. The Yankees and Red Sox look done - crazy to say that in July. The O's look like the team to beat, though they have their holes as well and we know when the Jays are healthy they are a better team. The Rays are creeping back and they always worry me. They have the pitching to get back into a race, and with some luck on their side it wouldn't shock me to see them playing meaningful games in August and September. This series against them will be huge and really could define the Jays season the rest of the way.

 

That's just it

 

He went all-in last year, and thought the AL East was there for the taking. It wasn't. Now it actually IS. I hate "throwing good money after bad" but on many levels it's worth throwing more in the pot here with the division title in reach. We can beat the Orioles.

[G-Snarls]

Ben Zobrist would look very good in that lineup

 

Yep

 

I don't think TB wants to trade Price to us or the Yankees (though they would if one of those teams offered by far the best package). They might be able to swallow trading Zobrist to us for something they need.

[Terminator]

Prado would be a good target. He hits lefties well and he can play 2B, 3B, and OF. We've got a glut of imperfect but somewhat capable backups at 3B and 2B and Prado can help fill in where needed. I can't imagine the cost to acquiring him would be that great either.

[G-Snarls]

Eeeewwww, no we don't, Lawrie's our 3rd baseman, we're pretty much f***ed with the rash of injuries, I understand Lawrie can play 2nd, but irrationally looking for a 3rd baseman now would be a fools errand. I'd rather be looking for a 2nd baseman for the future. If we can tread water and stay close(highly doubt it), good for them, and you'd be getting your corners back from injury. I really hope AA doesn't do anything in haste.

 

You're probably right, if a good 2B is out there to be gotten.

 

And any trade he makes will not be in haste, he was already shopping

[Atothe]

Do you guys just want to make the playoffs just for the sake of making the playoffs or build a perennial playoff team? Baltimore isn't running away with anything just the jays didn't away with anything. The team just needs to hold their head above water for a month.

[Terminator]

Do you guys just want to make the playoffs just for the sake of making the playoffs or build a perennial playoff team? Baltimore isn't running away with anything just the jays didn't away with anything. The team just needs to hold their head above water for a month.

 

I want the AL East Pennant. Bad. I don't give a s*** if we do it with 85 wins because the flag they hang at the dome isn't going to make any mention of it.

[KingKat]

Do you guys just want to make the playoffs just for the sake of making the playoffs or build a perennial playoff team?

 

Which of those is possible at this point?

[G-Snarls]

Prado would be a good target. He hits lefties well and he can play 2B, 3B, and OF. We've got a glut of imperfect but somewhat capable backups at 3B and 2B and Prado can help fill in where needed. I can't imagine the cost to acquiring him would be that great either.

 

He's my preferred target

 

Solid bat. Positional flexibility. Fewer health concerns and better defense than some of the other guys we've seen AA linked to.

[G-Snarls]

Do you guys just want to make the playoffs just for the sake of making the playoffs or build a perennial playoff team?

 

Which of those is possible at this point?

 

Touche/exactly

 

There is nothing on this team that says perennial contender beyond the next 2.5 seasons max. We could have a good cheap pitching staff, Brett Lawrie and Dalton Pompey in 2 years. Most of the rest will or should be gone by 2016/2017.

 

Go for it

 

Gains - Fans, money, respect, FA willingness to sign here, etc

[KingKat]

better defense than some of the other guys we've seen AA linked to.

 

Only if he plays 3B.

[Chappy]

At this point I'm only interested in acquiring a player if it doesn't cost any of our key prospects. Something more of a salary dump that will come off the books in the winter.

 

I'm much more excited about the possibility of next season and beyond when we have all of Stroman, Hutch, Dickey, Buehrle, Sanchez, Norris, and Nolin in the rotation mix. Then come 2016, guys like Osuna could be a possibility as well with Dickey and Buehrle also coming off the books. AA really needs to be careful here because this rotation has a chance to be good, young and cheap for a while.

[BigCecil]

Do you guys just want to make the playoffs just for the sake of making the playoffs or build a perennial playoff team? Baltimore isn't running away with anything just the jays didn't away with anything. The team just needs to hold their head above water for a month.

 

stop panicking

[KingKat]

AA really needs to be careful here because this rotation has a chance to be good, young and cheap for a while.

 

By the time that good, young, cheap rotation will be in place the team will need a new offensive core.

[Terminator]

By the time that good, young, cheap rotation will be in place the team will need a new offensive core.

 

But we will also have a ton of payroll flexibility as the large contracts come off the books soon.

[BigCecil]

At this point I'm only interested in acquiring a player if it doesn't cost any of our key prospects. Something more of a salary dump that will come off the books in the winter.

 

I'm much more excited about the possibility of next season and beyond when we have all of Stroman, Hutch, Dickey, Buehrle, Sanchez, Norris, and Nolin in the rotation mix. Then come 2016, guys like Osuna could be a possibility as well with Dickey and Buehrle also coming off the books. AA really needs to be careful here because this rotation has a chance to be good, young and cheap for a while.

 

I respect that view but remember 2010 and a good young rotation anchored by Marcum-Morrow-Cecil-Romero, and visions of Drabek danced in our heads.

 

Things usually don't materialize as planned as injuries and/or meltdowns unfold. We have some big pieces that likely wont be around and/or as productive over the next couple years.

 

I'm of the view that once in the playoffs anything can happen. I'm not sure the opp still exists that I saw in AL East with our injuries, but if we can hang in there Im ok to move some assets to upgrade to make a run.

[Terminator]

They're stuck. In the middle. With you.

 

Please stop. Please.