Extend Kratz?

[Frenchsoup]

I have loved everything iv'e seen from this guy so far and would love for him to be a Jay for a long time, thoughts?

 

Positives

-very good framer

-works with the pitchers well and very good defense

-can catch Dickey

-has a career 82 WRC+ with an extremely low .234 babip

-teammates seem to like him

-doesn't have crazy splits so he could play everyday

-has pretty good pop with a short compact stroke

 

*note- Ruben Amaro should be fired for this trade alone

[BigCecil]

I like him too and agree with most positives but no rush. Guy was a 30 yr old rookie. We have the luxury of watching him more before extending. AA has bigger fish to fry on the extending front on this team...

[Deadpool]

Isn't he still under team control for like 5 years?

 

He's under team control until 2018, so the remainder of this season + 4... Which is "like 5 years", so yes. I'm just being very long winded in saying "yes".

[Frenchsoup]

Yeah he is under control for a while but i think you could justify signing him to a long cheap deal. He'll probably make decent money in arbitration with his HR power and we don't really have any catchers in the minors other then AJ. I wouldn't count on him with the injuries and the good chance he won't hit.

[G-Snarls]

No need to extend him

 

League minimum for.now and he won't make much in arbitration unless he gets a LOT more playing time.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

I have loved everything iv'e seen from this guy so far and would love for him to be a Jay for a long time, thoughts?

 

Positives

-very good framer

-works with the pitchers well and very good defense

-can catch Dickey

-has a career 82 WRC+ with an extremely low .234 babip

-teammates seem to like him

-doesn't have crazy splits so he could play everyday

-has pretty good pop with a short compact stroke

 

*note- Ruben Amaro should be fired for this trade alone

 

lol @ "Ruben Amaro should be fired for this trade alone"

 

Kratz is a solid platoon catcher. Cool it with the hyperbole.

[Angrioter]

Kratz

Arb : 2015-2018

[Spoonovic]

AA only cares about HRs and RBIs though

[jaysblue]

lol this thread was funny.

 

I agree, I love Kratz as well and he brings a lot to the table. Though there is no need to extend him while he's under club control for the next 5 years. Makes zero sense.

[Chappy]

Extending him right now would be a horrible move. Let's see how he does the rest of the season and next season before even entertaining the thought.

[Caper]

Also... Isn't he like 33?

[eastcoastjaysfan]

With current league catching he is a 4+WAR guy.

 

Are you basing your projection only on his past MLB performance or are you including his MiLB performance as well?

[G-Snarls]

Also... Isn't he like 33?

 

Yes he is

[G-Snarls]

*note- Ruben Amaro should be fired for this trade alone

 

There must be 10,000 people who would be better at managing a team than Amaro Jr is. How he still has a GM job is beyond me.

 

If he and AA both get fired this year, I'd bet money that AA gets the Phillies job. He's best buds with Pat Gillick.

[GD]

My god that would be funny. Unless we got Amaro. That would just be cruel to fans in both cities.

 

Basically Torts/Vignault only like 1000000000x worse.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Wouldn't matter, either way you do it you still get around 4. Steamer had him at over 4 over full season with framing included. He's also had 3.9 WAR in under 500 PA to date (including framing).

 

Pre-season Steamer had him at 3.2 over a full 162 games, so I'm not sure how you're getting those numbers. For what it's worth, Navarro was around 2.9 over 162.

 

Beyond the numbers, I like Kratz but I'm not sure how much I'm buying into his bat. He's not a bad hitter at all, but I prefer Navarro's approach and ability to make contact... maybe the JPA strikeouts are biasing my opinion.

[GD]

Pre-season Steamer had him at 3.2 over a full 162 games, so I'm not sure how you're getting those numbers. For what it's worth, Navarro was around 2.9 over 162.

 

Beyond the numbers, I like Kratz but I'm not sure how much I'm buying into his bat. He's not a bad hitter at all, but I prefer Navarro's approach and ability to make contact... maybe the JPA strikeouts are biasing my opinion.

 

Steamer didn't include framing. JFaS subbed it in manually.

 

(I think)

[reedjohnsonfan]

Steamer didn't include framing. JFaS subbed it in manually.

 

(I think)

 

Oh I missed that part. I give him credit for digging deep into pitch framing, but I still find it hard to believe Kratz can be a 4 WAR player. Although maybe he was talking about it being over 162 games instead of regular FT catcher.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Yes I added it in.

 

Thanks. But is Kratz really considered a god defensively to you? I understand his low BABIP might be bad luck, but he's almost 34 and hasn't put up very impressive offensive numbers in the majors, albeit in only 400 or w/e ABs.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

RAJ is terrible but at the end of the day he ended up acquiring Lee, Halladay, and Oswalt (albeit past his prime) without really getting burned for it. Nobody sent the other way is anything special. Gose and d'Arnaud still have a chance to stick I guess.

[Orgfiller]

RAJ is terrible but at the end of the day he ended up acquiring Lee, Halladay, and Oswalt (albeit past his prime) without really getting burned for it. Nobody sent the other way is anything special. Gose and d'Arnaud still have a chance to stick I guess.

 

He completely destroyed a dynasty in the making by trading the whole farm for (while excellent) old and very highly paid players. Whether or not your argument is that the prospects didn't pan out it was still a franchise-crippling move and now the Phillies are one of the worst teams in the league. Completely unjustifiable moves past and present.

[G-Snarls]

He completely destroyed a dynasty in the making by trading the whole farm for (while excellent) old and very highly paid players. Whether or not your argument is that the prospects didn't pan out it was still a franchise-crippling move and now the Phillies are one of the worst teams in the league. Completely unjustifiable moves past and present.

 

Never mind foolish contract extensions to Utley, Howard, Rollins and others. He seems to fail to understand the concept of decline.

[ElNik2013]

He completely destroyed a dynasty in the making by trading the whole farm for (while excellent) old and very highly paid players. Whether or not your argument is that the prospects didn't pan out it was still a franchise-crippling move and now the Phillies are one of the worst teams in the league. Completely unjustifiable moves past and present.

 

 

I think we can all agree that he's terrible, but how would they be a dynasty right now when the prospects haven't panned out? This is what's not clear to me since in order for the dynasty to be made, the prospects needed to pan out.

 

Maybe ownership and the team president need to share in the blame for wanting to hang on to guys like Howard arguably to not look cheap.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

He completely destroyed a dynasty in the making by trading the whole farm for (while excellent) old and very highly paid players. Whether or not your argument is that the prospects didn't pan out it was still a franchise-crippling move and now the Phillies are one of the worst teams in the league. Completely unjustifiable moves past and present.

 

Oh I completely agree. I'm just saying, not ALL of his moves were horrendous.

[Orgfiller]

Never mind foolish contract extensions to Utley, Howard, Rollins and others. He seems to fail to understand the concept of decline.

 

Yes that too, I forgot to mention that in my post.

 

I think we can all agree that he's terrible, but how would they be a dynasty right now when the prospects haven't panned out? This is what's not clear to me since in order for the dynasty to be made, the prospects needed to pan out.

 

Maybe ownership and the team president need to share in the blame for wanting to hang on to guys like Howard arguably to not look cheap.

 

I see your point, but the way the team was set up at the time of the trades, they already had a solid MLB roster, and one of the best farms in the game. If we take into example Tampa Bay, what they've done is put out a decent-good team on the field, and try to stack up the farm, then when the good players start getting too expensive for them, they trade them for young controllable talent. Like the post above me states, Amaro handed out terrible contracts to declining players in Ultey, Rollins, Howard etc, but with the surplus of talent in the minors once they started asking for big money trade them for more young talent, creating a cycle of sorts.

 

Not every minor leaguer is going to pan out, and you can't say for certain that had all of those prospects stuck around all of them would have busted (not that they have).

[Orgfiller]

Oh I completely agree. I'm just saying, not ALL of his moves were horrendous.

 

I think he sort of got lucky that most of the guys haven't become solid MLB players (not yet at least). I see your point however, sometimes you have to give up a few young promising players to get a Halladay when you need a guy like that.

[Chappy]

My god that would be funny. Unless we got Amaro. That would just be cruel to fans in both cities.

 

Getting Amaro would be hilarious. A disaster to the organization, but fan reaction on this forum would be priceless.

[ElNik2013]

Yes that too, I forgot to mention that in my post.

 

 

 

I see your point, but the way the team was set up at the time of the trades, they already had a solid MLB roster, and one of the best farms in the game. If we take into example Tampa Bay, what they've done is put out a decent-good team on the field, and try to stack up the farm, then when the good players start getting too expensive for them, they trade them for young controllable talent. Like the post above me states, Amaro handed out terrible contracts to declining players in Ultey, Rollins, Howard etc, but with the surplus of talent in the minors once they started asking for big money trade them for more young talent, creating a cycle of sorts.

 

Not every minor leaguer is going to pan out, and you can't say for certain that had all of those prospects stuck around all of them would have busted (not that they have).

 

 

I get what you're saying, but my issue is with the dynasty reference. Again, what appeared like "one of the best farms in the game" has turned out not to be so good over time. If they had relied on this farm to win, they'd be in trouble, although with a cheaper crappy team.

 

You are also contrasting them with the Rays, who run the most efficient team out there, I guess the A's have an argument as well, but still, in my mind, this has to come from the very top of the organization.

 

Again, I agree with Amaro being terrible, I just don't see the dynasty reference as being legit.