John Gibbons: When Can We Fire This Failure?

[G-Snarls]

5 good starters > 4 good ones and 1 crap

 

You don't HAVE to have a crappy pitcher in your rotation

[ElNik2013]

Bottom line for me: Gibbons should've started the 7th with Loup agatinst Gordon. I don't get why he sent McGowan out for the 7th when he had his mind made up to yank him if Gordon got on.

 

Anyway, at least Stroman and Norris pitched well last night.

[Angrioter]

5 good starters > 4 good ones and 1 crap

 

You don't HAVE to have a crappy pitcher in your rotation

 

Shataup my amigo..It is only a matter of quantity, not quality. Bring Joe Blanton and his +200 IP here!!

[theblujay]

I can only look through individual pitchers so I selected Andy Pettitte's career.

 

In his career batters had a .240 BABIP on 3-0 counts and a .311 BABIP on 0-2 counts.

 

Surprising. So there appears to be no benefit in quality of contact in "hitters counts".

[theblujay]

Threatening people's jobs is a very, very bad way to manage them. So is making empty threats.

 

Well Stroman is going to pitch his way into this rotation if he keeps it up. If was picking who he replaces its 1: McGowan 2: Morrow, if he doesn't become more consistent and get deeper in games. So maybe the pressure is real if he doesn't improve his efficiency and actually get the results his FIP suggests

[BlueJaysGirl]

Gibbons can't pitch relief, so don't blame him for this season.

 

What the Jays can do now is sign Drew, demote McG to the bullpen because he's effective in long relief and no one else is right now, call up Stroman, DFA Redmond, and we're good to go with the talent to finish with a barely above .500 team.

[IBTrini]

..............then, Joe Blanton is out there. Alex, do it!!

I prefer taking a chance on McGowan but maybe that's just tied into sentimentality and even though I know there should be no place for that in baseball I still feel he can do better. On the other hand, Anthopoulos needs to do something about his starting rotation soon. Once fans start leaving in droves it will take a lot of time to bring them back. If he cannot, or is not capable of, bringing in top MLB talent then he should be looking to do a lot of offloading this season and preferably at the deadline.

[BlueJaysGirl]

In 94 innings here Redmond has a 4.15 xFIP. You DFA him, you're going to miss him later this year when the rotation suffers an injury or three. If anyone will take on Happ's salary, even partially, he should be the one to go.

 

That xFIP is still below average. He's hot garbage. Happ is owed too much to DFA. But in my dreamworld, we DFA both and call up Wagner and Stroman. Crazier still, DFA Rogers and have an extra bench player. We have a logjam of fodder who can't be used in high leverage situations. Even farther? I'd make Wagner the closer.

[IBTrini]

5 good starters > 4 good ones and 1 crap

 

You don't HAVE to have a crappy pitcher in your rotation

... and 5 elite starters is better than what the Jays have so I am not following the point.

 

At this point in time there is no one I know of who will certainly do a better job. The bottom line is the starting rotation needs to be fixed immediately, what the Jays have internally is either not ready or just not capable enough, and playing ping-pong (bringing up players and sending them back down cuz of options/etc.) is a band-aid solution which is not only frustrating to the fans but the players as well. If the Jays want to be contenders they cannot be looking at such solutions.

 

Anthopoulos seems to be trying to hold on to too many assets, which in the long run won't be around anyway, while he does his back room wheeling and dealing. I do not believe in giving away assets needlessly however if keeping them actually holds the team's performance back then just bite the bullet - trade them or let them go now! It's already at the "Nix it and fix it" stage.

[G-Snarls]

... and 5 elite starters is better than what the Jays have so I am not following the point.

 

My point was that you don't have to accept a mediocre pitcher for your 5th starter. A couple people had been saying they thought have a guy who can give you 180 innings with a 5+ ERA was "good enough for a 5th starter"

 

Well it's not desirable, and it's REALLY not good enough when your rotation has no #1 caliber starters to balance it out.

[KingKat]

My point was that you don't have to accept a mediocre pitcher for your 5th starter. A couple people had been saying they thought have a guy who can give you 180 innings with a 5+ ERA was "good enough for a 5th starter"

 

Well it's not desirable, and it's REALLY not good enough when your rotation has no #1 caliber starters to balance it out.

 

When you break starting pitchers into 5 equivalent tiers, the biggest gaps are between 1 and 2 and between 4 and 5 and those gaps are roughly equivalent. In other words, if you don't have a true 1 than you have to have 5 middle of the rotation pitchers just to have a roughly average rotation. This is my roundabout way of saying that the Jays really aren't in a position where they should settle for typical number 5 pitcher production.

 

I don't know if the addition of Stroman will give the Jays an above average rotation overall but I can't see it happening otherwise. It was nice to see McGowan go deeper last night and it was pretty easy to trick yourself into thinking he was more effective than he was. I got carried away with it myself thinking that maybe McGowan had turned a corner and earned some rope but upon sober reflection, he's still very much a question mark.

[Deadpool]

Still better than Cito.

[G-Snarls]

I think it would talent wise.

 

That's just it. We know what Dickey and Morrow CAN do. But WILL they?

[KingKat]

I think it would talent wise.

 

Yeah that was basically my point. Adding Stroman doesn't guarantee anything but where else are you going to find impact talent? Stroman might be as good as Samardzija this year and Samardzija reportedly would cost you Stroman AND Sanchez.

[KingKat]

Did you see my edit? I added that very scenario.

[darthjon]

Just came across this interesting blog article written yesterday that talks about the pitching situation and all the roster implications:

 

http://www.bluejaysfromaway.com/to-stro-or-not-to-stro-or-much-ado-about-pitching/

[Chappy]

Just came across this interesting blog article written yesterday that talks about the pitching situation and all the roster implications:

 

http://www.bluejaysfromaway.com/to-stro-or-not-to-stro-or-much-ado-about-pitching/

 

I'm not even going to read that simply because at this point Happ is not an implication, he should be released and one of Wagner/Rogers/McGowan should be traded for whatever we can get. This s*** was expected to happen and AA didn't do s*** about it and now he is costing this team wins because he doesn't want to give up bottom of the barrel pitching pieces.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

Hard hit balls and velocity of the bat affect BABIP yes. But they are not under the control of the pitcher.

 

Again, you lack common sense. Pitches made have a direct impact on how hard balls are hit. Period. Claiming otherwise is stupid.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

And here we go again, we all seem to have this debate on a weekly basis

 

JFaS lacks common sense, an over belief in what stats can tell him, and is stubborn as hell. This is a problem. His stated theories are crossing over

into the absurd more frequently now. Santos has an era almost 9, and lacks control. But he thinks he's just "unlucky".

[G-Snarls]

Just came across this interesting blog article written yesterday that talks about the pitching situation and all the roster implications:

 

http://www.bluejaysfromaway.com/to-stro-or-not-to-stro-or-much-ado-about-pitching/

 

Did you "come across this" on your own blog site by any chance??

[BlueJaysGirl]

By 5%. You don't DFA a useful swing-man because he's only been 5% below league average. He's a very serviceable 5th starter.

 

When you have other guys that are better for the pen, some languishing in the minors (Wagner), some who shouldn't be starting (McG), you've got to. McG can be that longman.

[G-Snarls]

That's not a reason to keep him on as manger though. I would take ECJF over Cito.

 

Oh, the raging that would happen!!

[BlueJaysGirl]

Wagner should close at this point, with Delabar and Santos not getting the job done. I'm not wanting pity taken on Wagner, I want him to save some f***ing games.

 

To me, McG > Redmond if you want 2-3 innings out of the 'pen.

[GD]

Again, you lack common sense. Pitches made have a direct impact on how hard balls are hit. Period. Claiming otherwise is stupid.

 

I'm not going to disagree with you, instead I'd like to see your proof for saying this.

 

JFaS lacks common sense, an over belief in what stats can tell him, and is stubborn as hell. This is a problem. His stated theories are crossing over

into the absurd more frequently now. Santos has an era almost 9, and lacks control. But he thinks he's just "unlucky".

 

You calling someone else stubborn lol

[closetjaysfan]

Im beyond sick of Gibbons. When the Blue Jays made the deal with the Mariners, my first thought was toward the manager because without a good skipper talent gets wasted. When Gibbons got (re)signed, I had a sinking feeling in my stomach. I tried hard to stay positive but by the end of last season I had enough of his 50 yard stare and poor management. Get someone new please.

[Chappy]

If anything Gibbons is above-average at in-game managament. The failures of this team can be chalked up to several parts abysmal roster management ans one part poor luck.

 

Yeah I don't get how people can blame this mess on Gibbons, he seems to do more right than wrong.

[Daniel Labude]

Why is Lawrie not playing tonight. He has been on fire and we sit him for sierra....wtf...fire this piece of s*** already

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

Show me

 

You seem to have no real experience playing ball. But let's clear this up. What type of baseball/softball do you play and at what level ? I ask this because I just can't see someone who plays ball making the absurd statements you do. But I can see an overeager stats guy who makes mistakes in their analysis doing so.

 

What exactly is your experience in sports ? Give me an idea, how many games/hours do you play in an average week ?

[theblujay]

Show me

 

Is there actually no effect on BABIP by pitch type, movement, velocity or location? Like sinkerballers have lower BABIP or something?

[BlueJaysGirl]

Last thing is need is another long man. McGowan was great in the role he was in last year.

 

Not in my scenario presented in this thread, wher we DFA Happ, Rogers and Redmond. McG's stretched, somewhat. I'd like him that 2-3 inning guy out of the 'pen. Deal with that filth, rest of baseball.