Jays players discussed deferring salary to land Santana

[o2cui2i]

Happ wasn't willing to chip in???

 

not willing to chip in from his wallet and not able to chip in from the bump.... sad story indeed.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

As I pointed out earlier, when you stated essentially the same thing ... the Jays have been receiving about $30M/year from revenue sharing. That money has, essentially, all come from the Yankees, so the Yankees have been paying for about 1/3 (or more) of the Jays' payroll for years now ... but that's just a sad aside.

 

This sounds like a totally fraudulant claim that is indefensible. You just aren't a credible poster when you basically lie about the business of baseball to "support" your emotional rants. But you know what, I'll give you a chance to defend your statement. Specifically, define where the 2013 revenue in "revenue sharing" comes from. Now tell me why you think this comes from the Yankees. Now tell me how this works for the rest of the league. If a relatively rich team like the Jays takes $30 million from the Yankees, boy, the Yankees must be contributing what $600-900M to other teams there cowboy ?

 

Nope, the numbers seem off. You are making stuff up.

[JJippidy]

I'll try to keep this as short as I can.

 

It was a risk.

 

Sure, but the new money does at least help mitigate the risk, i.e. there's less risk for loss than there would be without it, it certainly had to make the risk somewhat more palatable than it otherwise would have been.

 

Plus, money streams aside, they could blow this whole thing up as soon as this summer.

 

 

You don't understand revenue sharing under the current CBA.

 

I do.

 

Local revenue is essentially irrelevant as to whether refunds will be given.

 

Ya, given out, but paying in, it's the WHOLE deal there.

 

I see no way you can say that paying themselves 30'ish million in TV money versus 100+ per year and having to only put in 31% of that 30'ish vs 31% of 100+ is anything but an advantage of owning the broadcast channels.

 

The rest is sorta of irrelevant because I trust the Jays to know more about their books than us, so if there comes an advantage to pay in more for their TV rights, they kinda will, no?

 

Prior, you stated that they gambled and lost miserably. That the spending didn't increase revenues sufficiently. Now you're saying that it spurred revenue on quite well (good boost in attendance and healthy TV numbers). You're talking out both sides of your mouth here, and I'm not sure which way you're trying to go.

 

Very simple, this off season suggests they gambled last one and lost the faith of ownership after last season, revenue went up but apparently not enough for Rogers and because of this the front office seems handcuffed. I see the value gained and the continued value in going one way but Rogers apparently sees things through a different light. Nothing contradictory there, numbers went up but I see the risk reward from a different angle as a fan than does ownership.

 

 

To you it's "what's another $14M"? To them, they took the huge, huge plunge, and thought they had their winner. Throwing another $14M at it? That's a tough sell. Even if "only" $14M for 1 year. It's still $14M.

 

Sure, doesn't mean that a tough sell isn't worthy of being bought, who to spend it on aside.

 

And you look at 2016 to say they don't have longer term obligations ...

 

But it'll be blown up if it goes south so...

 

It's money. Whether it's paid over 1 year or 8. It's still millions upon millions ... on top of the millions upon millions they're already spending. You still have to pay for it.

 

1 million is 1 million, but 14 million over 1 year is not 50 million over 4 years... If the window is now then a few million more this one year seems to be easier to argue for than X million each year till 2020. Ya it's still money, but it's a lot less, and if a lot rides on this year then again stacking the deck seems a sensible move.

 

 

What more vision does it require?

 

An understanding of the game by the head of the company that owns the team for one would be nice. Having the vision to push the team towards a guy like Yu would have been nice, or Sanchez back when would have been nice, having the GM not have to make a pitch to the Pres who pitches it to a board to get funds released for players they likely never heard of, instead of just a phone call, that might be nice as well.

 

I like the good, but really dislike the bad of corporate ownership, it's like having a bipolar boss, sentiment can change based on a bad quarter or new CEO.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

You were dropped on your head as a baby. Every day.

 

Of course that's an overstatement for effect. The Yankees pay about 27.5% of all revenue sharing, historically. And since those funds are pooled, and not specifically assigned to a specific payee, and there are multiple recipients and payors, there's no direct attribution of funds paid to a specific team or received by a specific team. And the Jays have been reported to be recipients of $30M per year. So you can say the Yankees hand the Jays approximately $8M per year for the right to attempt to field a team that can finish above 4th place in the division.

 

Good lord.

 

"Totally fraudulant claim" "indefensible" "aren't a credible poster" "you basically lie" "emotional rants" "defend your statement"

 

You studied at the Over-reactionary School O' Drama for special needs children (which is expected, with all the head dropping).

 

You are certainly not a "Cooler Head." You're a Hot Head. And thus, you are destined to not prevail.

 

Buddy, you seem to think I'm some kid/dope who reads your dumb s*** and will accept it. No, buddy, it's just dumb s*** and deserves to be called

dumb s***. If you were a smarter guy you'd realize how absurd it is to claim the "over-reactionary school o'drama" when you have made the excuse that your point was an "overstatement for effect". Here's an idea, just own up to the idea you posted something stupid in yet another emotional rant you have about the Jays and how bad they are. God knows this seems to be your main point of being here, be a man and own it.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Cooler Heads Prevail

[G-Snarls]

Would re-name this thread to "CHP vs Moogy battle royale", but I don't know if anyone but jippidy is reading what they're typing so probably not worth it

[kgm1]

Well not really Ang. IMO what likely happened was AA was led to believe payroll would go up which is why he went all in last season. Then Rogers made the deal with the NHL and the money was gone.

 

Pretty much what I have suggested since the deal . Rogers shut AA down on payroll . No doubt AA had enough money ( 130 mil is enough to compete ) but when they approved all that increase last year cutting back now makes no sense

[JJippidy]

Would re-name this thread to "CHP vs Moogy battle royale", but I don't know if anyone but jippidy is reading what they're typing so probably not worth it

 

Na, not even I'm reading it anymore, they can have at it though if they wish.

 

I could probably add fuel to the fire by dissecting the minutia of semantic inconsistencies maybe throw in a straw man or two with some back handed complements but that also seems to be taken care of.

[GD]

#TeamMoogster

[jays4life19]

For what it's worth:

 

Ervin Santanas final line. : 3.39 FIP, 3.47 xFIP 3.68 Siera 2.8 fWAR in 198 IP.

[Frenchsoup]

For what it's worth:

 

Ervin Santanas final line. : 3.39 FIP, 3.47 xFIP 3.68 Siera 2.8 fWAR in 198 IP.

 

I was on the Ubaldo train and not on the Ervin train. I accept defeat.

[GD]

Iirc I liked Garza most. How'd he do?

[John_Havok]

For what it's worth:

 

Ervin Santanas final line. : 3.39 FIP, 3.47 xFIP 3.68 Siera 2.8 fWAR in 198 IP.

 

Devils advocate, the two pitchers who pitched in his hypothetical spot were MCGowan until sent to the pen and Stroman.

 

or Happ.

 

For the 15 million, would he have provided markedly better value than those guys at their salaries? Who's willing to do the legwork and the comparison for my lazy weekend ass?

[kgm1]

Devils advocate, the two pitchers who pitched in his hypothetical spot were MCGowan until sent to the pen and Stroman.

 

or Happ.

 

For the 15 million, would he have provided markedly better value than those guys at their salaries? Who's willing to do the legwork and the comparison for my lazy weekend ass?

 

One thing that would have been positive had they signed Santana was the hype. That would have sold more season tickets and game packs and they probably would have drawn more fans than last year

[John_Havok]

One thing that would have been positive had they signed Santana was the hype. That would have sold more season tickets and game packs and they probably would have drawn more fans than last year

 

Very likely yes I agree.

[jaysfan2014]

Looking back, the only good news for Ervin is that he will get a nice contract by somebody this offseason.. the Braves didn't make the playoffs.

[Stangstag]

1. Jays and Santana agreed to a deal, Santana then backed out and signed with Atlanta

 

2. Happ was MUCH better than expected, Ubaldo still should have been signed in the offseason. No excuses.

 

3. Jays FO should pony up and make some significant signings this offseason if they want to compete in 2015

[RealAccountant]

Things won't change

[Chappy]

1. Jays and Santana agreed to a deal, Santana then backed out and signed with Atlanta

 

2. Happ was MUCH better than expected, Ubaldo still should have been signed in the offseason. No excuses.

 

3. Jays FO should pony up and make some significant signings this offseason if they want to compete in 2015

 

Ubaldo? He would have been our worst SP.

[RealAccountant]

^agreed

 

AA needs to shore up a .500 finish to next year by trading Stroman and Sanchez to the Yankees for Arod and Bernie Williams skeleton

[jays4life19]

Devils advocate, the two pitchers who pitched in his hypothetical spot were MCGowan until sent to the pen and Stroman.

 

or Happ.

 

For the 15 million, would he have provided markedly better value than those guys at their salaries? Who's willing to do the legwork and the comparison for my lazy weekend ass?

 

I agree that Ervin Santana wouldn't have got us into the playoffs, but he still had a real nice year and maybe we're close enough where the Jays make a trade to get additional help.

 

At the very least he would have been worth the 15 million AAV and we would be looking at a draft pick as compensation.

[jays4life19]

Iirc I liked Garza most. How'd he do?

 

163.1 IP 3.53 FIP, 3.88xFIP, 4.01 Seira 2.5 fWAR.

[jays4life19]

Ubaldo? He would have been our worst SP.

 

SO glad that Baltimore and not us gave him 50 million dollars.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Santana probably doesn't get us into the playoffs but he would've gotten us a hell of a lot closer. Good year for him.

[Stangstag]

Ubaldo? He would have been our worst SP.

 

Doesn't change the fact that he SHOULD have been signed at the time. In hindsight, im very glad he's not on our team.

[John_Havok]

I agree that Ervin Santana wouldn't have got us into the playoffs, but he still had a real nice year and maybe we're close enough where the Jays make a trade to get additional help.

 

At the very least he would have been worth the 15 million AAV and we would be looking at a draft pick as compensation.

 

I don't disagree, I'm just wondering how close or far apart it really was from a value standpoint