For those who wanted a "do over" last year - you got it

[jays4life19]

Still sucks cause isn't 5 years 75M exactly what he got from Detroit?

 

Also, Since the Tigers offered 5 years and 80 million and they were coming off a world series appearance AND Sanchez was familiar with the Org it would have taken a huge premium for him to come to a foreign country on a team who has not been relevant for years and years. It's probably why his agent asked for 8 years.

 

6 years and 99 million would have probably been the minimum for him to come to Toronto.

[GD]

Didn't the Cubs very nearly sign him to 5/75 before it got nixed or something? I mean, if the "star-studded" version of the Jays we were last offseason can't attract an FA over the Chicago Cubs and Detroit Tigers, what the f***?

[jays4life19]

Didn't the Cubs very nearly sign him to 5/75 before it got nixed or something? I mean, if the "star-studded" version of the Jays we were last offseason can't attract an FA over the Chicago Cubs and Detroit Tigers, what the f***?

 

By the sounds of it once we became the "star-studded" Jays we weren't really in on him at that point.

 

We were in on him when we were the " haven't done anything in 20 years" team.

 

The Marlins trade would have made signing him almost impossible with the payroll restrictions. Hell we had to give the Mets John Buck to afford Dickey.

[GD]

By the sounds of it once we became the "star-studded" Jays we weren't really in on him at that point.

 

We were in on him when we were the " haven't done anything in 20 years" team.

 

The Marlins trade would have made signing him almost impossible with the payroll restrictions. Hell we had to give the Mets John Buck to afford Dickey.

 

I thought it was after the Marlins trade but before the Dickey trade.

[jays4life19]

I thought it was after the Marlins trade but before the Dickey trade.

 

Yeah.

 

The Dickey trade and Sanchez signing with Detroit happened around the same time. Point being the Jays were strapped for cash after the Marlins trade and there was no way they could have put together a contract offer to beat Detroit's 5 years and 80 million. We had to send John Buck to the Mets to afford Dickey's what? 5 million or so salary?

 

Basically the Marlins trade ended any chance we would sign him.

 

Edit: Did you mean the interest in Sanchez was after the Marlins trade? If so, not at all. He was apparently a very early target.

Edited February 24, 2014 by jays4life19

[ElNik2013]

I thought it was after the Marlins trade but before the Dickey trade.

 

 

 

Nope, it was after reportedly striking out on Peavy and Sanchez that AA turned his attention to JJ.

 

The way things went down is why I believe AA was under some kind of pressure to not strike out on improving the team, especially the rotation given the set backs they had.

[ElNik2013]

Yeah.

 

The Dickey trade and Sanchez signing with Detroit happened around the same time. Point being the Jays were strapped for cash after the Marlins trade and there was no way they could have put together a contract offer to beat Detroit's 5 years and 80 million. We had to send John Buck to the Mets to afford Dickey's what? 5 million or so salary?

 

Basically the Marlins trade ended any chance we would sign him.

 

 

 

I think it was the runaround they reportedly got from Sanchez. If you tell me you want an 8-year deal, I think you're telling me "thanks for the dinner and courtship, but I'd rather go somewhere else".

 

Sanchez had an agreement with the Tigers that they'd get a chance to counter the best offer they got. A deal with the Cubs was reportedly very close to being finalized, but Sanchez went back to the Tigers and they matched or topped the offer.

[ElNik2013]

But the real fans wanted this major push to contend, otherwise they were leaving.

 

 

 

There come times in rebuilding phases when you have to be willing to take a step back to take 2 forward and this is what I believe Rogers/Beeston aren't willing to do because they want to keep a watchable product on the field. The Jays were in such a situation after the injury and performance setbacks they had during the 2012 season from Hutchison, Drabek and Romero respectively.

 

I believe the mandate for the 2012 off season was to NOT strike out in improving the team because if they did, they would've likely lost over 90 games in 2013. Strike 1 was the failed Peavy acquisition. Strike 2 was Sanchez reportedly giving them the runaround and then they went back to the Marlins in desperation mode and ended up overpaying. At least in my creative mind.

[jays4life19]

I think it was the runaround they reportedly got from Sanchez. If you tell me you want an 8-year deal, I think you're telling me "thanks for the dinner and courtship, but I'd rather go somewhere else".

 

Sanchez had an agreement with the Tigers that they'd get a chance to counter the best offer they got. A deal with the Cubs was reportedly very close to being finalized, but Sanchez went back to the Tigers and they matched or topped the offer.

 

Exactly. Sanchez had no intentions coming here. Unless we did something dumb like an 8 year deal which Detroit would not match. AA recognized this and moved on to (unfortunately) the Marlins trade.

[ElNik2013]

Exactly. Sanchez had no intentions coming here. Unless we did something dumb like an 8 year deal which Detroit would not match. AA recognized this and moved on to (unfortunately) the Marlins trade.

 

 

 

I would've been fine with tanking the 2013 season instead of making the Marlins trade. However, given that a big reason Rogers even owns the Jays is for content for it's all-sports channels and they don't want to put out a 90-loss team on the field, I could live with the Marlins trade as long as the president and owner were clear on the financial ramifications.

 

The Dickey trade was really unbelievable to me. I was raging on the MLB board, I wouldn't have even done D'Arnaud or Syndergaard for Dickey straight up.

 

Anyway, it's too late now.

[Dick_Pole]

I hate the defeatist attitude where the Jays have to tank or take a step back to move forward. How many Hall of Fame and near-Hall of Fame players did the Braves lose by the mid-2000's? Their version of a tank was basically a .500 team from 2006-2009 and they're right back to the playoffs again. The Braves version of a tank 8 years ago was better than the Jays version of a contender last year.

 

The Jays DO NOT need to tank a season and they DO NOT need a top 5 draft pick. What they DO need are some people who know how to draft and develop quality players consistently and know how to properly manage a roster. I will never, ever applaud the team having a bad season no matter how many other people think it will benefit them in some intangible way in the future (it might change the FO, it might result in a better draft pick etc)

[fatcowxlive]

I also thought age would at least start to catch up to Ortiz.

 

I didn't think Napoli's hip would hold up.

 

I didn't think Lackey would be anywhere as good as he was.

 

Etc, etc.

 

 

So, I'll shut up

 

don't worry, I thought the Yankees were going to be the laughing stock of the AL East along with Baltimore finally playing towards their 'Pythagorean W/L record'. I also thought Boston will take 3rd and one of the Rays/Jays will go 1/2 and both make the postseason (the 2nd place team would beat out Texas). Boy was I wrong.

[Key22]

Hi Chappy - I agree.

 

It's more than just man games - it's WHO you lose. Some team that loses 4 scrubs (their bottom 2 in the order, their 5th starter and a LOOGY) can fill that.

 

What other people (not you) don't seem to understand is that the term "depth" doesn't mean you have 10 all-stars in the minor leagues to replace the all-stars on the MLB squad. When an average player gets hurt - a "good depth" team can bring someone up who is at least somewhat competent - a Kawasaki - solid enough defense and not a complete black hole at the plate. That's a depth guy.

 

I am not a big blame injury guy but losing 3/5 of the rotation 2 years back - sorry but no team is going to recover from that. Last year AGAIN the projected rotation was Dickey, Morrow, Beuhrle, Johnson, Romero. We didn't even get to opening day. Romero was gone filled in by Happ. And that would have probably been fine - but down goes Morrow, and Johnson (the guys some were expecting to be the true 1-2 starters). Happ gets beaned - so now you had 6 MLB starters and you're down to 2.

 

C'mon people - you are not going to replace 3 guys you were hoping for at least number 3 starter quality from) and also losing Happ (he was the depth guy).

 

That pretty much killed them but let's pile on - let's lost the lead off hitter and starting Shortstop for most of the season - sorry but you can't expect to have Jeter in the minors to come up and be ready. Melky - Seriously - THAT BAD? They guy was an 85 year old man out there. Izturas was a league average kind of guy and he too looked like an 85 year old man out there. JPA was never great but the guy fell off the low cliff he was on.

 

All things considered I find it miraculous that they won 60 games let alone 74. I mean they had Kawasaki and Bonifacio and Melky and JPA in the same line-up with scrub pitchers galore being given the ball. An insanely overworked pen - though I did like Gibbons use of it - pitch a guy 3 innings give him 2 days off where he could which is less stressful on the arms not going every day or two all year.

 

Wilner predicts they will win the wild-card - A stretch but if you can win 74 with what they had last year 90 doesn't seem totally impossible. IF they stay healthy. Santana apparently has a bum arm - didn't know that - he's not doing surgery and waiting for it to heal itself. So no way the Jays go anywhere near him - and probably why no one else has either. Jiminez at $50 million walks more than 4 per nine innings - how will that work in a patient hitting AL EAST?

[G-Snarls]

Santana apparently has a bum arm - didn't know that - he's not doing surgery and waiting for it to heal itself. So no way the Jays go anywhere near him - and probably why no one else has either. Jiminez at $50 million walks more than 4 per nine innings - how will that work in a patient hitting AL EAST?

 

Partially torn UCL supposedly. That's the same injury Matt Harvey had. At first Harvey considered rehabbing it and trying to avoid surgery (something Roy Halladay did successfully as you probably know). Ultimately, of course, he got it operated on. Don't know how bad Santana's is, nor how likely his arm is to blow. But yeah if it's true that's almost certainly a big part of the reason he's unsigned. It's not just the draft pick.

Edited February 24, 2014 by G-Snarls

[BlueJayWay]

[mitchf]

I thought that was real. Was replying and everything. Ugh.

[G-Snarls]

I thought that was real. Was replying and everything. Ugh.

 

To be fair, the real Wilner has suggested on Twitter that a similar rebound is quite possible as well

[Boxcar]

don't worry, I thought the Yankees were going to be the laughing stock of the AL East along with Baltimore finally playing towards their 'Pythagorean W/L record'. I also thought Boston will take 3rd and one of the Rays/Jays will go 1/2 and both make the postseason (the 2nd place team would beat out Texas). Boy was I wrong.

 

Nobody saw Davis and Machado putting up like...12 WAR combined, so don't feel too bad.

[Boxcar]

 

Followed by Jose Bautista.

 

loooooool

[G-Snarls]

The Blue Jays starting pitching had the 19th best xFIP and 26th best ERA in the majors, in the 2nd half of the season. The relievers were mediocre (and that will be a shock to some Blue Jays fans this year when the relief corps potentially lets them down, in comparison to the perception of quality that existed in 2013). The Jays were 10th in the majors in wOBA, 12th in wRC+ and 8th in Runs/Game in the 2nd half.

 

Yeah, Cecil and Delabar were both pretty mediocre after their all star appearances

[KSaw]

For all of the Jays apologists who wanted a "do over" for last season, you got it. Wilner et al say last April sunk them and the team was insanely unlucky and if you played the season over with the same roster they'd be competitive.

 

Well here you go. Only 1 or 2 semi meaningful roster changes (new catcher for sure, and maybe but not even definitely a new 2B). Same planned rotation essentially. Same pen. Same potential all stars at 1B, SS, 3B, CF and RF. Same question marks at LF and DH.

 

More time to gel (if they're going to) and no WBC.

 

We'll see how it goes.

 

Not really a do-over missing Josh Johnson, who was supposed to be a front end starter. And Buherle a year older.

[KSaw]

I honestly thought the Jays were going to spend near a 170 million payroll, foolish me, we're f***ed........hope and pray, yay!!

 

Hope and pray on the rotation. They will score a crap load of runs. Get a bookie and bet the over in every Jays game in April and easily run at 85%.

[KSaw]

My best guess is that the rotation on opening day is Dickey, Buherle, Morrow, Happ, McGowan. By some point in May, Stroman and or Hutchison will plug in for an injured Dustin or Morrow or a crap Happ.

[Chappy]

Hope and pray on the rotation. They will score a crap load of runs. Get a bookie and bet the over in every Jays game in April and easily run at 85%.

 

Just think, if AA had acquired a reasonable 2B and a platoon partner for Lind, this offence could have been even stronger.