Around Baseball 2014

xposbrad · January 29, 2015

Which of Belisario's stats make him a "garbage scrap" exactly? Where exactly is the digging being done? Your ass?

6.6% whiff rate? 3.69 xfip / 3.9 fip / 1.4 CAREER WAR

SOLID!!!!

TwistedLogic · January 29, 2015

6.6% whiff rate? 3.69 xfip / 3.9 fip / 1.4 CAREER WAR

SOLID!!!!

3.69 xFIP is "garbage scrap"? His career FIP of 3.59 is garbage? 60.4 GB%, 0.54 HR/9 career rates, yeah, looks like utter trash.

Moron.

xposbrad · January 29, 2015

3.69 xFIP is "garbage scrap"? His career FIP of 3.59 is garbage? 60.4 GB%, 0.54 HR/9 career rates, yeah, looks like utter trash.

Moron.

I may have exaggerated slightly but he's still mediocre at best. Why couldn't we have spent some real money to get a nice reliever, lights out. The pen is shaky. We went into the year having to improve it, and this is the guy we get.

TwistedLogic · January 29, 2015

I may have exaggerated slightly but he's still mediocre at best. Why couldn't we have spent some real money to get a nice reliever, lights out. The pen is shaky. We went into the year having to improve it, and this is the guy we get.

The pen was lights out going into the season last year, and by the end of the season, it was the team's biggest weakness by far. Cecil, Loup, Estrada and Belisario would be a really good starting point for the bullpen. After that, if you get a rebound from Delabar, or if you pick up another guy off the market, or if Sanchez gets slotted in and pitches lights out, or if Jenkins steps up, all of that is gravy. You don't need 7 elite RP's to contend, especially not when you have an offense like that of the Jays, and when you consider how volatile RP's really are.

Sammy225 · January 29, 2015

I may have exaggerated slightly but he's still mediocre at best. Why couldn't we have spent some real money to get a nice reliever, lights out. The pen is shaky. We went into the year having to improve it, and this is the guy we get.

The thing is you can spend good money but that does not mean your getting what you paid for. Relievers are so volatile. As Twisted said we were thought to have a great bullpen going into last season and delabar blows up and Santos can't throw strikes. There are very few relievers that you can rely on putting up solid numbers year after year. Belisaro is a good ground ball pitcher and gives up very very few homeruns and in our park that is huge and you likely get get him for 3-4M cheaper than some of the bigger names that i don't think are slam dunks by any means. Is Belisario going to be an all star, not likely but i got no doubts that he will be effective.

LGBJ29 · January 29, 2015

If he's a depth move then this is fine but coming out of the bullpen to start the season colour me unimpressed. The guy is 32 years old. With that said I like a guy who gets GBs and doesn't give up HRs pitching in the RC.

lol since when is 32 too told to be a reliever.

TwistedLogic · January 29, 2015

If he's a depth move then this is fine but coming out of the bullpen to start the season colour me unimpressed. The guy is 32 years old, ffs.

Pop quiz! Tell me how old Duke, Perkins, Benoit, Rodney, Neshek, Papelbon, Uehara, Street and Badenhop are.

LGBJ29 · January 29, 2015

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/dont-forget-about-ronald-belisario/

Article from May 2014 on Belisario

Dude’s gotten close to two out of every three balls in play to travel on the ground, which is elite. This year, he’s also finding the zone at a career-high rate, and the control is working for him. Hunter Pence once told me that Ronald Belisario was the nastiest pitcher he’d ever faced

TwistedLogic · January 29, 2015

The only point I was making is you're not going to get any additional upside.

Did not say this. But at 32 he literally is what he is and he could really only likely to get worse or stay about the same (unless luck is at play).

Oh okay.

http://i.gyazo.com/28bba6eb6b8f158aec3a9d2ba4b78fe1.png

TwistedLogic · January 29, 2015

TwistedLogic · January 29, 2015

For any 'likely' scenario of which there are many samples you will always find a few exceptions. Honestly if there's a point you're trying to make, it's pretty pointless. The fact is there is an aging/performance curve in baseball and that needs to be considered very closely.

Right, so let's consider it to the point of not signing Belisario as opposed to signing him. Makes sense.

Boxcar · January 29, 2015

Tell me where I said anything to that effect.

Most obtuse poster award goes to...

L54 · January 29, 2015

When people use slash lines I cringe a just a little inside. Also, wOBA and wRC+ are better but not not all encompassing for the same reason (neither include base running / stolen bases).

Never once said any of them are all encompassing.

You sound like a longtime reader who started posting, and are taking advantage of the smallest opportunity to show that you have a basic understanding of advanced stats.

Your dumn if you really don't believe that a large percentage of casual fans don't use a players slash line to form a base line opinion of the player. That's what 43211234 was referring to, and it's pretty easy to see.

TwistedLogic · January 29, 2015

Tell me where I said anything to that effect.

You're pretty obtuse for implying such a thing.

"If he's a depth move then this is fine but coming out of the bullpen to start the season colour me unimpressed. The guy is 32 years old, ffs." - 61Cygni, 2015

Belisario is not signing with the f***ing Blue Jays to pitch in Buffalo.

I'd also like to point out that you made the statements "you're not going to get any additional upside" and "he literally is what he is". Those are pretty definitive statements, and don't leave space for exceptions, like Oliver, Uehara, and a host of other relievers that have had no problems carrying a reliever's load at a high performance level late into their careers.

L54 · January 29, 2015

So we're rolling with what the causal fans do now? That usually works out well. Clearly you didn't catch the sarcasm initially.

Well they make up the majority of every fan base. So ya, it's probably a good idea to not alienate them.

L54 · January 29, 2015

And I'm still unimpressed. How can anybody like this move is beyond me. He's still an upgrade over Chad Jenkins, etc. but I expect a lot more than a mediocre aging reliever to turn this into a competing team.

I said you're not going to get any upside and I also said it's not likely, it's obviously not impossible but pitching in the RC I would expect his stats will decline even more.

This is like saying "don't get Michael Saunders because Justin Upton is available".

Just because the Jays are linked to a middle reliever (who is better than most of the in house options) doesn't mean AA is finished adding pieces.

BTS · January 29, 2015

When people use slash lines I cringe a just a little inside. Also, wOBA and wRC+ are better but not not all encompassing for the same reason (neither include base running / stolen bases).

From a purely batting standpoint it's fine but I would never evaluate a player offensively without including base running and stolen bases, so I don't like it at all. There is a constant stream of the media reporting a players 'batting' ability without any reference to their all around performance, it's just wrong.

This isn't true.

Edit: apparently it is now:

"This stat accounts for the following aspects of hitting: unintentional walks, hit-by-pitches, singles, doubles, triples, home runs. Stolen-bases and caught stealing numbers used to be included as well on FanGraphs, but they are now instead accounted for with the stats UBR and wSB. This way, wOBA only accounts for a player’s production at the plate."

Edited January 29, 2015 by BTS

StroShow · January 29, 2015

Belisario offers considerable value pitching against right handed batters.

L54 · January 29, 2015

Should we bring back HR and AVG and RBI slash lines while we're at it?

Lol you are obtuse. Boxy was right.

BTS · January 29, 2015

Belisario is not worse than, say, Santiago Casilla. He'll come in and eat up 60-70 effective innings at a few runs better than replacement-level. You could to a lot worse on a 1-year deal.