Jays and Rays discussing a trade involving Encarnacion and Price??

[Angrioter]

Alex is collecting former CY winners: Halladay, Dickey, Price.................Brandon Webb?

[Terminator]

How many more years before Price is declining? How many more until he blows out of his arm. Pitchers carry significantly more risk than hitters. Edwin is a top 10 hitter. Price isn't even a top 30 talent. You're just plain wrong on many levels here.

 

If EE is so much better than Price then why has Price had a higher WAR in every single season since 2009? And even if you want to just use EE's numbers since his resurgence over the past two seasons Price has been a full WAR better.

[Holden Caulfield]

How many more years before Price is declining? How many more until he blows out of his arm. Pitchers carry significantly more risk than hitters. Edwin is a top 10 hitter. Price isn't even a top 30 talent. You're just plain wrong on many levels here.

 

I would bet my life on the fact that people will be clamoring to trade Edwin by next offseason.

[DuckDuckGose]

Price has had a better WAR than EE in every single year since 2009, Price's first full season in MLB.

 

Of course, a player's value isn't merely tied to talent alone, you have to figure in contract situations and that's when things begin to tilt more toward EE but this isn't as bad of a structured deal as everyone makes it seem.

 

Pitcher and hitter WAR aren't equivalents.

[NorthOf49]

Choo is on No49's DDL roster. He is NOT overrated

Choo is one of twenty players ALL TIME in the 20-20-.420 club. That type of overall package cannot be overrated.

[DuckDuckGose]

Alex is collecting former CY winners: Halladay, Dickey, Price.................Brandon Webb?

 

Buehrle is a 4x AS, 4x GG winner and top 5 CY finisher. #Hardware

[DuckDuckGose]

I would bet my life on the fact that people will be clamoring to trade Edwin by next offseason.

 

That's fine, if they're clamouring it's because the team tanked again and needs to be rebuilt.

[Angrioter]

Choo is one of twenty players ALL TIME in the 20-20-.420 club. That type of overall package cannot be overrated.

 

Grandy (without OBP)?

[DuckDuckGose]

If EE is so much better than Price then why has Price had a higher WAR in every single season since 2009? And even if you want to just use EE's numbers since his resurgence over the past two seasons Price has been a full WAR better.

 

You can't use pitcher and player WAR that way, it's not a comparison tool in that matter.

 

Price only saved 12 runs less than the average pitcher last year. Edwin produced 45 more runs on offense than the average hitter. One is an elite talent level, the other is not.

[DuckDuckGose]

Encarnacion can be replaced

 

A starter like price is hard to find

 

You are severely under-valuing Edwin and over-valuing Price. If you replaced Price's name with Kershaw, Scherzer, Verlander, Harvey, Lee, Sale, Harvey, etc you could start to make your case but you aren't even talking about a truly elite pitcher.

[xposbrad]

Sign Garza goddammit

 

No kidding, and you get to keep EE!

But Garza is tied to draft pick compensation isn't he?

[Angrioter]

Joke update

Alex is collecting former CY winners: Halladay, Hentgen, Dickey, Price, Buehrle (near).................Brandon Webb?

[JugglingPitches]

If this trade happens I will find a way to buy 51% of Rogers stock just so I can fire AA personally.

[NorthOf49]

You can't use pitcher and player WAR that way, it's not a comparison tool in that matter.

 

Price only saved 12 runs less than the average pitcher last year. Edwin produced 45 more runs on offense than the average hitter. One is an elite talent level, the other is not.

But isn't a win a win? When you take the positional adjustment into account, they're very close.

 

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I'd rather keep EE and trade the farm for pitching. This swap would sap future contract value while not making the team any better off in 2014.

[DuckDuckGose]

How many years has Encarnacion been an elite hitter?

 

Two. You do realize this is readily available info, right?

[DuckDuckGose]

But isn't a win a win? When you take the positional adjustment into account, they're very close.

 

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I'd rather keep EE and trade the farm for pitching. This swap would sap future contract value while not making the team any better off in 2014.

 

No a pitching win is different than a hitting win. They've come up with ways to try and make them comparable and on similar scales but you still can't make the comparisons that are going on ITT.

[jays_fever]

f*** yes! Wait..only if Price extends with us for 6 more years at a 21 AAV.

[G-Snarls]

Wilner now answering question upon question about this rumour

[Olerud363]

If this trade happens I will find a way to buy 51% of Rogers stock just so I can fire AA personally.

 

Chief executive officer by decree of ownership, Tear up the constitution and Roger's list of core values and make your own. King for life, ultimate ruler, master of the house.

 

The team needs this position more than any other. One man in charge. An alpha male that the other dogs sniff. AA needs to live in fear of making a bad trade. The president of the team needs to fear someone. The hitting coach, the manager, the ball boys, the mascot, and everybody else from the office boys to the hotdog vendors to the players need a slightly saber aware master to obey, look up to, worship and serve.

 

The current situation is just shits and giggles, handshakes and haircuts. No one exists in the real world.

[Holden Caulfield]

If we acquired Price and he rebounded nicely, couldn't it be plausible that we'd be able to flip him at the deadline or next offseason for more than we could have acquired for Edwin?

[G-Snarls]

If we acquired Price and he rebounded nicely, couldn't it be plausible that we'd be able to flip him at the deadline or next offseason for more than we could have acquired for Edwin?

 

Yes

 

But we want to acquire a pitcher now AND keep Edwin. We really do.

[Holden Caulfield]

Yes

 

But we want to acquire a pitcher now AND keep Edwin. We really do.

 

Well I'm asking that under the assumption that we won't contend this year regardless of what we do this offseason.

[DuckDuckGose]

2 Years just 2.

 

What's your point? How many years has Price been elite? Even by the loosest of definitions the answer is one - three. Edwin is cost controlled and Price is looking for a payday. Unless there is a lot more than Price coming back there really isn't a deal to be made IMO.

[Dr. Dinger]

Discipline? How about a 1.3+ BB/K ratio.

 

Edwin's K% is godly for a power hitter. Downright godly.

[Olerud363]

Edwin will decline heavily book it

 

He never had Any discipline

 

wtf?? He walked 80 times last year and the year before. Struckout 60 last year.

 

If you want to argue, that based on your advanced models Edwin will decline heavilly... then by all means go for it.

 

 

But the word never implies events in the past of which we can check. Never had plate discipline means never, as in none of the years that have happened. Edwin clearly had plate discipline in 2012 and 2013.

[KingKat]

If EE is so much better than Price then why has Price had a higher WAR in every single season since 2009? And even if you want to just use EE's numbers since his resurgence over the past two seasons Price has been a full WAR better.

 

Well part of that can be explained by the fact that catcher's pitch framing isn't properly calculated. All the TB pitchers are getting their K/BB boosted by Molina's fine work. Not sure exactly how many wins in Price's case but it's definitely a factor. In any case even if you credit Price with an extra win that really doesn't matter because the trade hinges on future performance not past performance. If you think Price can continue to perform at such a high level with his reduced velocity and once his BB/9 regresses to something sustainable and without elite pitch framing then you have a lot more faith in him than I do and certainly a lot more faith in him than I think you should have in EE. I'm really kind of stunned that someone is trying to pre-emptively defend this potential trade. Best case scenario this is just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Worst case scenario, Tampa gets out from the Price contract just when s***'s about to hit the fan (always more likely with pitchers than batters even those who didn't just experience a dramatic drop in fastball velocity).

[Angrioter]

Edwin will decline heavily book it

 

He never had Any discipline

 

lol

 

Edwin and Aoki more BB than K's

[Terminator]

You can't use pitcher and player WAR that way, it's not a comparison tool in that matter.

 

Price only saved 12 runs less than the average pitcher last year. Edwin produced 45 more runs on offense than the average hitter. One is an elite talent level, the other is not.

 

Can you expand on the pitcher-hitter comparison? Also, how is 186 innings of 3.03 FIP only 12 runs better than the average pitcher? I'm genuinely curious.

[Holden Caulfield]

Isn't saying that Edwin is an elite hitter based off of his K% the past two seasons as fundamentally as flawed as saying Price is elite based on what he has done in seasons past?

[Angrioter]

Can you expand on the pitcher-hitter comparison? Also, how is 186 innings of 3.03 FIP only 12 runs better than the average pitcher? I'm genuinely curious.

 

39 runs, no 12 runs (RAR)

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3184&position=P#value